What Insteon did right......

[AD8BC]

I'm pissed.  Just like most of you.

I've been an Insteon user for 15 years.  I'm glad that I was smart enough to get into the ISY about 15 years ago and to keep my home control off of the "cloud."  I have friends with homes full of Insteon that went the "Hub" route.  And they are pissed.  But, we've made it this far with our Insteon systems because... well, we liked them.  Enough, anyway.

So lets talk about what Insteon did right.  Just in case anybody out there is listening... Feel free to add to this list.

• The Keypadlinc
  When I started with Insteon over 15 years ago, all I wanted to do was to control four sets of kitchen lights from two convenient locations.  I bought two keypads and two dimmers and set them up on a plug strip in my hotel room and was amazed at how well everything worked together and synced.  We moved in and I installed them and realized... there were four blank buttons on the keypad!  What should I control with them now?
  The Keypadlinc, though comparatively unattractive compared to other ones out there for Z-wave and Lutron, seems to be far more versatile.  With the old clear buttons, you could make custom labels easily.  You could use them in 6 button and 8 button configurations (all nine of mine are in 8 button mode).  The Keypadlinc is what I will miss the most.  If any of my friends or family decommission their system, I'll buy a few Keypadlincs from them (along with their PLM... Just in case.)
  I would have loved to have been able to move the internal load to a button other than "A" though.
• The devices were relatively simple
  I'm an industrial automation engineer.  I program complex conveyor and sortation systems for shipping companies and major e-commerce sites (yes, that one).  I like simplicity when I can find it.  Insteon has inputs and outputs.  It's easy to make an output react to an input.  
  Z-wave kind of scares me.  
• Dual band
  In the beginning I had trouble with Insteon powerline signals making it to the other end of the house.  I used the wireless phase bridges and repeaters with varying success.  I used the Filterlincs on "noisy" devices.  After some old Keypadlincs died and I replaced them with dual-band, it all works.  Every. Single. Time.  No repeaters, no filters.

[jec6613]

The network design itself: Peer to peer, and point to multipoint scenes.  No popcorn and high reliability.

[johnnyt]

+2 for 8-button keypadlincs. haven't found anything comparable out there

insteon scenes work really well. zwave not even close. (only know about those two)

dual band certainly helped with the above, among other things

would love to see more speed if that's possible (to add to the talk of expanding capabilities) 

 

 

[apostolakisl]

The technology works.  It had some growing pains.  Dual band and sourcing better electrical components fixed pretty much everything I ever had a complaint about.  And they worked out little bugs like not using tapered screws to hold the paddles down (they cracked, presumably thermal stress).  And for a while, they had so many niche products that just rounded out the protocol.  Anyway, now that things seem to be all worked out, it is too late for them.  Obviously, I think they made some big mistakes on the business side of things.  They should have worked with other companies for one.

[LFMc]

I was a big X10 fan early, early on. But it really was a fight all the time keeping everything talking. I almost gave up on smart home automation in the early 2000's as the smart meters rolled out and rolled over most of my X10 signaling. I pulled almost every X10 and gave them away. Then I took another chance a few years later with ISY and Insteon (quickly moving to dual band) and really enjoyed SH projects that work and work well, especially using the ISY. I'll be holding on to my Insteon (especially since I have plenty of spares) for a long time.

 

[RPerrault]

scenes - 20 or more devices simultaneously fade up or down - ability to include the same resource in multiple scenes - ability to have different settings on different controllers in the same scene

data integrity checking - crc - doesn't need more than that

ack/nack - confirmation of packet delivery

not sure its a plus, but its interesting - hop counts - wondered how they would prevent a broadcast type storm

wrong thread i know - but  the worst is yet another rf 'mesh' with no problem determination tools for rf or powerline

isy kept insteon afloat - at least for probably 10 years - they had nothing like the isy for setup, management and programmatic control

its more fun - and easier - to complain about the craplincs - i was all in on the x10 switchlincs - went full insteon on their advice - lived through all the deceptions - so the demise should not be a surprise to me

sigh

 

 

[johnnyt]

almost forgot: double clicking (fast on / fast off). adds so many possibilities. I use it a lot.

[ScottC]

I also really liked the Keypad links (both 6 and 8 button). Probably one of the main reasons I stayed with Insteon, nobody else makes anything quite the same. I also really liked the Micro switches. Super handy for that weird 3 way switch that didn't really need another switch. Or in my current house a way to add control to my attic light (which is just a pull switch outlet) that I keep forgetting on when I close the stairs. Rather than having to run Romex down to a new or existing switch, just link it to the 8 button keypad that's already at the bottom of the stairs. 
I think that is/was the main draw to Insteon, it was easy.

Really the only problem with Insteon as a company was really bad management. They tried to be the Apple of home automation, and that just doesn't work. It may have worked 20/30 years ago locking people into one ecosystem, but it's just not sustainable today.
I know EVERYONE has put in their 2 cents and requests to Mike but probably the best business solution would be for say UD to get the patents, licenses, IP and what not, and licenses some 3rd party manufacture to make the controllers (shelly for instance). UD get's the software control/integration part and someone else can make/improve/update the hardware side, name it whatever they want. I'm not tied to a name. Especially since UD doesn't want the hassle of dealing with hardware.

Edited April 26, 2022 by ScottC

[RPerrault]

19 minutes ago, ScottC said:

I also really liked the Keypad links (both 6 and 8 button). Probably one of the main reasons I stayed with Insteon, nobody else makes anything quite the same. I also really liked the Micro switches. Super handy for that weird 3 way switch that didn't really need another switch. Or in my current house a way to add control to my attic light (which is just a pull switch outlet) that I keep forgetting on when I close the stairs. Rather than having to run Romex down to a new or existing switch, just link it to the 8 button keypad that's already at the bottom of the stairs. 
I think that is/was the main draw to Insteon, it was easy.

Really the only problem with Insteon as a company was really bad management. They tried to be the Apple of home automation, and that just doesn't work. It may have worked 20/30 years ago locking people into one ecosystem, but it's just not sustainable today.
I know EVERYONE has put in their 2 cents and requests to Mike but probably the best business solution would be for say UD to get the patents, licenses, IP and what not, and licenses some 3rd party manufacture to make the controllers (shelly for instance). UD get's the software control/integration part and someone else can make/improve/update the hardware side, name it whatever they want. I'm not tied to a name. Especially since UD doesn't want the hassle of dealing with hardware.

what kinda freak controls their attic lights?

actually - i do too - sigh

but ima try to trump you - my attic lights are on a dimmer with frosted light pipe and a lutron screwless plate

omg i need an intervention

 

[LFMc]

32 minutes ago, RPerrault said:

what kinda freak controls their attic lights?

actually - i do too - sigh

but ima try to trump you - my attic lights are on a dimmer with frosted light pipe and a lutron screwless plate

omg i need an intervention

 

I'm waiting for the person who puts an OFF/ON lamp module on their ISY so they can reboot it from remote if it locks up. ?

[larryllix]

2 hours ago, LFMc said:

I'm waiting for the person who puts an OFF/ON lamp module on their ISY so they can reboot it from remote if it locks up. ?

I have mine on a WiFi remote switch. What would be really nice is an Insteon power cycler so ISY could send the signal based on programming logic, it would turn the power off and 5 seconds later turn it back on.

...Not gonna' happen because it would be an admission by programmers that their software / firmware can actually hang. 

My Insteon network can power cycle my LAN and Internet equipment based on logic.
My Internet and LAN equipment can power cycle my Insteon equipment based on my frustration from around the world.

Edited April 26, 2022 by larryllix

[carealtor]

55 minutes ago, larryllix said:

....Not gonna' happen because it would be an admission by programmers that their software / firmware can actually hang. 

I have WAY more issues with Node Servers hanging than the ISY/Polisy itself.  In fact, I can't think of a single time ISY/Polisy has hung up.  YMMV.

[larryllix]

25 minutes ago, carealtor said:

I have WAY more issues with Node Servers hanging than the ISY/Polisy itself.  In fact, I can't think of a single time ISY/Polisy has hung up.  YMMV.

If ISY hung, it couldn't logic out enough to reset itself anyway.

I have had a few "hung" incidences over the years, not always ISY's fault, existing without an IP address, and a few other weird things that a power cycle usually fixed. Biggest problem is detecting them.

 

[palayman]

5 hours ago, RPerrault said:

what kinda freak controls their attic lights?

actually - i do too - sigh

I have Insteon switches on all my lights but the attic.  Never thought of it.  Fortunately I have a few spares that I can use to rectify the situation. Thanks!

[palayman]

4 hours ago, LFMc said:

I'm waiting for the person who puts an OFF/ON lamp module on their ISY so they can reboot it from remote if it locks up. ?

I use one of these.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07MCRQPCS/ref=sspa_dk_detail_4?psc=1&pd_rd_i=B07MCRQPCS&pd_rd_w=544WD&pf_rd_p=0c758152-61cd-452f-97a6-17f070f654b8&pd_rd_wg=ZLHvU&pf_rd_r=EFA41PX2J030FKVT6QHQ&pd_rd_r=4719022c-7d29-41b0-b07e-f0c2d66c4aeb&s=industrial&spLa=ZW5jcnlwdGVkUXVhbGlmaWVyPUExOFNMMzVMMUlBMVQ1JmVuY3J5cHRlZElkPUEwMjQxMTA5MU5aUEo2M0E3M0VUSyZlbmNyeXB0ZWRBZElkPUEwMzQzNjEwM0U1MEVCODZGTlpaWiZ3aWRnZXROYW1lPXNwX2RldGFpbCZhY3Rpb249Y2xpY2tSZWRpcmVjdCZkb05vdExvZ0NsaWNrPXRydWU=

[RPerrault]

41 minutes ago, palayman said:

I have Insteon switches on all my lights but the attic.  Never thought of it.  Fortunately I have a few spares that I can use to rectify the situation. Thanks!

this will set off the safety lectures - i have the insteon on/off switch controlling the food waste disposal 

to match the dimmer in the same 2 gang box - made sense at the time but having confessed, i'm pathetic - sigh

 

 

[johnnyt]

3 hours ago, larryllix said:

I have mine on a WiFi remote switch. What would be really nice is an Insteon power cycler so ISY could send the signal based on programming logic, it would turn the power off and 5 seconds later turn it back on.

...Not gonna' happen because it would be an admission by programmers that their software / firmware can actually hang. 

My Insteon network can power cycle my LAN and Internet equipment based on logic.
My Internet and LAN equipment can power cycle my Insteon equipment based on my frustration from around the world.

Wow we're off topic but.. oh well...

You want one of these with all your networking gear plug into it in addition to ISY, Polisy, etc.  https://dlidirect.com/products/new-pro-switch

You can set/up call scripts using ISY network resources to reboot ISY and/or Polisy, as well as you networking gear in proper sequence with delay in between. Can also set up autoping to reboot hung things. 

Also you can bookmark these in your browser to make stuff happen: 

http://192.168.0.60/outlet?8=ON, 

http://192.168.0.60/script?run021=run

 

Edited April 26, 2022 by johnnyt

[upstatemike]

2 hours ago, larryllix said:

If ISY hung, it couldn't logic out enough to reset itself anyway.

I have had a few "hung" incidences over the years, not always ISY's fault, existing without an IP address, and a few other weird things that a power cycle usually fixed. Biggest problem is detecting them.

 

If ISY sends a heartbeat to another controller that controller could reboot ISY if it locks up and the heartbeat stops. 

[Michel Kohanim]

4 hours ago, carealtor said:

I have WAY more issues with Node Servers hanging than the ISY/Polisy itself.  In fact, I can't think of a single time ISY/Polisy has hung up.  YMMV.

@carealtor, did you submit bug reports? Are they PG2, PG3 or both?

With kind regards,
Michel

[xlurkr]

8 hours ago, LFMc said:

I'm waiting for the person who puts an OFF/ON lamp module on their ISY so they can reboot it from remote if it locks up. ?

I actually thought about doing this.  If you linked a remote directly to it, not through the ISY, it would be useful.  I needed a solution my wife could do in my absence, and after trying "Install this app on your phone just so you can reboot the ISY with this WiFi relay, and that's all it's for" and hearing "I'm not going to do that", it occurred to me that she's comfortable using the Insteon remotes, so I'd have more luck dedicating one for this purpose.  But that's expensive, and I'm lazy, so I never implemented such a reboot solution. or any other for that matter.  Instead, I make her get on a ladder and power cycle it if I think that will fix whatever problem she's having.  Which it never does, btw.  It's always something else.

-Tom

[carealtor]

17 hours ago, Michel Kohanim said:

@carealtor, did you submit bug reports? Are they PG2, PG3 or both?

With kind regards,
Michel

Hi @Michel Kohanim  Yes, I did submit a ticket and logs.  Ticket number 15662.  This is the PG2 Sonos Node Server.  I have also tried the PG3 Sonos Node Server, but it hangs on me too.

Edited April 27, 2022 by carealtor

[AD8BC]

On 4/26/2022 at 11:13 AM, RPerrault said:

what kinda freak controls their attic lights?

actually - i do too - sigh

but ima try to trump you - my attic lights are on a dimmer with frosted light pipe and a lutron screwless plate

omg i need an intervention

 

I've been called weird for putting dimmer switches in the bathrooms... I didn't put in Insteon in the bathrooms, but I came close...

[oskrypuch]

In my setup, when I moved from X-10, twelve years ago, that was my very first Insteon switch, in the bathroom.

Actually three of them. They are triggered by a motion, and will light bright or dim or intermediate, with varying time outs and ramp rates, depending on the time of day and the house state.

* Orest

 

Edited April 28, 2022 by oskrypuch

[carealtor]

2 hours ago, AD8BC said:

I've been called weird for putting dimmer switches in the bathrooms... I didn't put in Insteon in the bathrooms, but I came close...

I have an Insteon Dimmer in my bathroom.  It comes on when I turn off the TV in family room (if between certain evening times).  It also only comes on to a very low dim level if turned on during the night.

[upstatemike]

I took the simple route and just put pressure sensors on the toilet handle. When the toilet is flushed the system recognizes who it is by their unique pressure profile and triggers a TTS announcement that scolds them by name to shut off the bathroom light as they leave.

Edited April 28, 2022 by upstatemike