Insteon acquired and servers coming back up

[Brian H]

The 2412S was used before the 2413S was being produced.

Came in two link database sizes. 417 links and 2016 links. Was slower and most found around 800 links the ISY99i (maybe the ISY994i also) would start missing links. Probably the way the database has to be addressed. It also supplied unfiltered 12VDC (around 18VDC) out the serial port cable and could power the ISY controller or Smartenit EZIO8SA.

I still have some 417 link units as two 2016 link units.

Edited September 9, 2022 by Brian H

[mango]

@brian h I still use one in a live environment! Not many devices, and you can detect it is slightly slower, but not a problem in the environment it is in. Over the years I had 2 blow on me, I kept them 'just in case' and those have now been resurrected for $30 each. Can't complain .

Edited September 9, 2022 by mango
another typo

[Geddy]

1 hour ago, mango said:

It may even be useful for those in America although I have not discussed American clients.

Nice to hear about this service available in Canada. 

There's been numerous posts around here of service available through a seller on eBay that's been used by a few members on the forums. 

Also, there's been posts about recapping the PLM, but looks like the listing usually linked to is currently out of stock.

There are options, and as you said you've hoarded a few for personal use. 

 

[mango]

Hi Geddy,

 

I had originally bought the cap kits too, as I was planning to try and fix them myself but in the end farmed it out to a pro.

[larryllix]

Hi Geddy,
 
I had originally bought the cap kits too, as I was planning to try and fix them myself but in the end farmed it out to a pro.

It must cost over $20 to ship them each way in Canada.



Sent from my SM-G781W using Tapatalk

[mango]

@larryllix you mean to be fixed? I shipped a box with 6 Insteon units in and put a return label in the box, so yeah about $40 both ways.

[larryllix]

@larryllix you mean to be fixed? I shipped a box with 6 Insteon units in and put a return label in the box, so yeah about $40 both ways.

I assume 40 for both ways? Where did you get shipping that cheap? Or was it local for you?


Sent from my SM-G781W using Tapatalk

[mango]

13 hours ago, larryllix said:

I assume 40 for both ways? Where did you get shipping that cheap? Or was it local for you?


Sent from my SM-G781W using Tapatalk
 

Pretty close. I have a business account which takes a couple of bucks off and I don't include tax as I claim that back.

[larryllix]

1 hour ago, mango said:

Pretty close. I have a business account which takes a couple of bucks off and I don't include tax as I claim that back.

Yeah. I often suspected that with CanPost. Any package I have ever shipped with them, if it won't fit into an envelope, is always more than $28 each way. Larger packages, like the one you suggest, were always $35-37 or more, each way. Makes the repair cost seem insignificant but the overall cost prohibitive. I finally tossed my oldest PLM in the bin but have three more yet.

I always suspected the business rates must be less or they wouldn't survive.

[Dub]

Just got an email from Insteon aka Ken.

My email address with hub subscription still has not gotten additional updates. After a suggestion from @MrBill I registered a new email address and got this update.

Ken is asking for feedback on a survey for products to incorporate into their app and what you use to control them.

What I saw was important was that it specifically mentioned 3rd party solutions albeit it was with Insteon solutions but I marked that to encourage supporting 3rd party control.

 

[PBeyard]

2 hours ago, Dub said:

Just got an email from Insteon aka Ken...

I received that as well. I use Agave (which I found to be more reliable than Mobilinc). I assume their app is for hub control, not ISY.

It also prompted me to check https://www.insteon.com. It is unchanged from my last look; I was not able to find any working links to product for sale.

[andrew67]

I would suggest most of you not wait for Insteon to revive.  It appears unlikely that significant new product will become available.  I'm sharing here the basic repair procedure for the keypads and switches which show the "dead" or "clicking" issue.  There are other things which kill these, but 99% of mine needed this fix.

I trained my GF to fix these too, as it get tiring, and smaller hands help.  Helps to have someone share the work too.  Eventually even this fix needs to be re-done, as the parts do NOT last forever.  The design is commercial grade... even with proper parts its not a 20 year situation.  The insides of these get HOT, and even doubling the size, plus putting in 5K hour 105C parts will not be forever.  I've seen as little as 4 years out of switches which control big loads.

The basic issue here is that there are two electrolytic capacitors in the power supply section, which dry out, and then the PSU cannot properly filter the DC, and the whole thing stops working.  It is possible that poor filtering also kills signal integrity, but since signal integrity reporting was not included in insteon, you can't know without test equipment, and I'm not that motivated to do testing.  

I no longer "chase" dead switches.  If I am taking the faceplate off of a bank I replace all of the capacitors, even the ones I've previously replaced.

YMMV on this.  You will need: small Philips screwdriver, soldering iron, small diagonal cutters, thin needle nose pliers, solder braid, solder, and replacement caps (see below).

 

1) Remove switch from wall, it may not be necessary to disconnect it from the wiring.  I don't disconnect, but ensure power is off.

2) Remove the 4 faceplate screws, and remove faceplate or button array.  Now is a good time to WASH these.

3) Remove the 4 outermost screws which hold the plastic transparent back on to the switch.

4) Carefully push back or twist the back cover.  Do not push it back too much or you will break the wires which go to the buzzer.  If you break them, they are extremely hard to re-solder, and you may need to just clip them, and not have a buzzer.

5) Note the two capacitors in the lower left corner of the picture.  NOTE THE POLARITY  The stripe goes AWAY FROM THE + SIGN on the PCB.  Your unit may be similar, there were MANY versions.  There are two capacitors there.  While you have the unit open REPLACE BOTH.  I already replaced the front one in the picture ONCE.  This is the second time... Some units only had ONE capacitor, and used an SMT device for the other one.  I replace the 10uF 35V big capacitor with a 22uF 35V unit.  You can get a bag of 100 from digi-key for a few dollars.  You need something with SUPER LONG LIFE.  5000hrs at 105C.  Todays stock was Wurth 860240572002 and Nichicon UPV1V220MFD1TD  I'm sure both are fine.  For the 10uF there were more choices today, Rubycon 35ML10MEFCT54X7 and Wurth 860240572001 were near the top of the list.

6) To actually remove and replace the caps, I do the following.

a) Using small cutting pliers cut through the middle of the cap, right through the barrel.  This is close to where the terminals are inside.  Push up the bottom part of the cap away from the pcb.  It will be possible to pull this remaining part of the cap off of the leads, leaving to wires sticking up out of the pcb.

b) using a soldering iron, heat each leg, one at a time, and using a pair of needle nose pliers remove each leg.

c) using Solder braid, remove the solder from the holes.

d) Find a suitable location to put the caps.  As you can see from the picture, it does not have to be seated on the PCB.  Bend the leads to make them fit the holes in the appropriate location, cut to length.

e) insert and solder.  

7) Reassemble.

[Techman]

I just received this response from Insteon as to the availability of PLMs and Insteon devices

-----------------------------------------

The goal is to continue to sell a PLM option.   The current problem is components.  We do have other options that involve retrofitting other designs.

 I can't give you any specifics but the plan is to start the process of getting products back into the market by the end of the year or early next year.

Thank you,

Steve Lee

Insteon Support
 

[Dub]

31 minutes ago, Techman said:

 

I just received this response from Insteon as to the availability of PLMs and Insteon devices

-----------------------------------------

The goal is to continue to sell a PLM option.   The current problem is components.  We do have other options that involve retrofitting other designs.

 

Good news!  Thank you for sharing @Techman

[mango]

On 9/10/2022 at 7:21 PM, andrew67 said:

I would suggest most of you not wait for Insteon to revive.  It appears unlikely that significant new product will become available.  I'm sharing here the basic repair procedure for the keypads and switches which show the "dead" or "clicking" issue.  There are other things which kill these, but 99% of mine needed this fix.

 

More of these posts please! I have a box full of dead or flaky KPLs, I may give this a go.

[apostolakisl]

On 9/14/2022 at 1:20 PM, mango said:

More of these posts please! I have a box full of dead or flaky KPLs, I may give this a go.

Capacitors are like 90% of what ever fails with Insteon. I had a bunch of the 2476d's that were dead and replaced caps on them and almost all of them came back to life.  So if capacitor replacement is in your wheel house, just replace them.  Likely to get most of your devices working again.

[CoolToys]

Given the failure rate of PLM modules, I wonder how much it would cost to OEM a block of them.  I am still a bit confused why Insteon never created a wireless module or released the specs so someone could make a usb dongle that used the wireless side of the insteon mesh? 

In my 15 plus years of using insteon, I have had four PLM failures, one keypad and one light switch.  Sadly I used to have a really cool X-10 tabletop remote with big lit buttons that failed just after they were discontinued.

Maybe the new insteon will fix some of these issues?  

[lilyoyo1]

2 minutes ago, KC10Brain said:

Given the failure rate of PLM modules, I wonder how much it would cost to OEM a block of them.  I am still a bit confused why Insteon never created a wireless module or released the specs so someone could make a usb dongle that used the wireless side of the insteon mesh? 

 

This has been brought up countless times and the reason is due to patent and copyright laws  Can't make plms without insteon's code/chip/permission.

They did make one. 2448a7

[CoolToys]

Understood, and having a few patents and trademarks under my belt, I also know that there are people overseas that will make anything you want regardless.  As long as new Insteon is around I will of course buy from them.  If the 2448a7 is re-released by new insteon, maybe we can put it on the wish list for the eISY Michel teased us with.

Has anyone uses a 2448a7?  Reliability?

 

[CoolToys]

On 9/15/2022 at 7:08 PM, apostolakisl said:

Capacitors are like 90% of what ever fails with Insteon. I had a bunch of the 2476d's that were dead and replaced caps on them and almost all of them came back to life.  So if capacitor replacement is in your wheel house, just replace them.  Likely to get most of your devices working again.

It is interesting you had a dimmer fail.  Of the hundreds I bought and sold over the years, I only had one fail, and it was under warranty within days of install.  

Too bad we don't have a local Fry's or Radio Shack any more.

 

[lilyoyo1]

10 minutes ago, CoolToys said:

Understood, and having a few patents and trademarks under my belt, I also know that there are people overseas that will make anything you want regardless.  As long as new Insteon is around I will of course buy from them.  If the 2448a7 is re-released by new insteon, maybe we can put it on the wish list for the eISY Michel teased us with.

Has anyone uses a 2448a7?  Reliability?

 

Anything can be made if you pay enough. The question is whether or not it's worth the cost on an individual case. With trying to use it for personal gain, how much would a person make off of it to justify the cost before lawsuits

[CoolToys]

Ah, I wouldn't sell them, I was looking at it as an individual emergency replacement program.  If Insteon doesn't make it out of the ER, you could get a one off unit made.  I have one off items made all the time for old cars, artwork and my studio.  Yes it might be $200 or $300 but that is way cheaper than swapping all of my switches and outlets to Z-Wave or something else and then the hours to reprogram my iSY.  

Again as long as Insteon has a heartbeat, I'll buy from them and I would also try to find used online first and hope I don't buy a lemon.

[apostolakisl]

1 hour ago, CoolToys said:

It is interesting you had a dimmer fail.  Of the hundreds I bought and sold over the years, I only had one fail, and it was under warranty within days of install.  

Too bad we don't have a local Fry's or Radio Shack any more.

 

2476d or 2477d?  I do not recall ever having a 2477d fail, but the earlier 2476d's did.  I don't have any 2476d's left anymore as I replaced everything with dual band quite a few years ago.  I probably had about a dozen in a box of "failed" 2476d's out of maybe 50-60 I had bought.  I replaced caps on them and maybe 8 of them came back to working normal.  Some were not truly failed, but rather buzzed funny, took forever to boot when powered up, and/or periodically would hang-up and need to be rebooted.

[apostolakisl]

On 9/18/2022 at 12:09 PM, CoolToys said:

Ah, I wouldn't sell them, I was looking at it as an individual emergency replacement program.  If Insteon doesn't make it out of the ER, you could get a one off unit made.  I have one off items made all the time for old cars, artwork and my studio.  Yes it might be $200 or $300 but that is way cheaper than swapping all of my switches and outlets to Z-Wave or something else and then the hours to reprogram my iSY.  

Again as long as Insteon has a heartbeat, I'll buy from them and I would also try to find used online first and hope I don't buy a lemon.

You could pay to have small runs of the hardware made, but you still need to flash them with firmware that you don't have.