Bumbershoot Posted July 15, 2022 Posted July 15, 2022 I have a relative who's on Polisy with ISY software at version 5.4.3. That ISY version does not have the "Upgrade Packages" button on the Configuration tab. I'm curious if anyone knows if it safe to use the Portal | Select Tool | Maintenance | Upgrade Firmware button to upgrade the ISY software on the Polisy, if for no other reason than to get the "Upgrade Packages" functionality in the current version of ISY software? I don't see any information on the Wiki related to this question.
Geddy Posted July 15, 2022 Posted July 15, 2022 @Bumbershoot I'm not sure if it would be something I'd attempt on the IoP. I know @Michel Kohanim had advised against that method on ISY994 in the past in the 5.x process. And I'm not sure what he's doing to get people to the point of having that button available in IoP. I'd suggest opening a support ticket and see if there's a process to update specific IoP processes to get that button. Is there not the auto update function available in 5.4.3 IoP? From the release note there's this process: Quote - In the Admin Console, click on Help | Automatically Upgrade Polisy menu Either way, let us know what you end up doing. There's been several other posts about this and haven't heard back from anybody as to what process they went through to get it upgraded to have the button available. Apparently that button is introduced in 5.4.4 (the most current release).
Bumbershoot Posted July 16, 2022 Author Posted July 16, 2022 48 minutes ago, Geddy said: From the release note there's this process: Quote - In the Admin Console, click on Help | Automatically Upgrade Polisy menu Yep, that's another method. The user doesn't have a remote PC that runs Java (the Polisy is in an unoccupied vacation home), so I was hoping we could do it from the Portal. There's not real urgency for me to do this, as there aren't any specific features on 5.4.4 that this installation depends on, so it's probably fine to leave it until these questions get resolved. 49 minutes ago, Geddy said: Is there not the auto update function available in 5.4.3 IoP? No, there isn't. I'll open a ticket eventually, but again, no urgency.
MrBill Posted July 16, 2022 Posted July 16, 2022 14 hours ago, Geddy said: I know @Michel Kohanim had advised against that method on ISY994 in the past in the 5.x process. I've also seen that advice before. It's always made me wonder, if the button in the portal isn't supposed to be used, then why is there?
larryllix Posted July 17, 2022 Posted July 17, 2022 12 hours ago, MrBill said: I've also seen that advice before. It's always made me wonder, if the button in the portal isn't supposed to be used, then why is there? May be geek vs. user advice.
MrBill Posted July 17, 2022 Posted July 17, 2022 10 hours ago, larryllix said: May be geek vs. user advice. the advice comes from the same man that has the final say on everything.... so I wonder out loud why this option exists if we aren't supposed to use it... it also exists for Polisy's. While it's never been announced as a Polisy upgrade option, if it's there someone will use it. It's usually pretty simply to remove an option from a menu, the underlying code and functionally doesn't need to be removed, just prevent the menu item from appearing.
larryllix Posted July 17, 2022 Posted July 17, 2022 1 hour ago, MrBill said: the advice comes from the same man that has the final say on everything.... so I wonder out loud why this option exists if we aren't supposed to use it... it also exists for Polisy's. While it's never been announced as a Polisy upgrade option, if it's there someone will use it. It's usually pretty simply to remove an option from a menu, the underlying code and functionally doesn't need to be removed, just prevent the menu item from appearing. Too many "irons in the fire"?
MrBill Posted July 17, 2022 Posted July 17, 2022 15 minutes ago, larryllix said: Too many "irons in the fire"? lol...likely but i still don't get it.
larryllix Posted July 17, 2022 Posted July 17, 2022 Just now, MrBill said: lol...likely but i still don't get it. Yeah, but for the second time now I am contemplating going back to ISY994. Too many bugs and lockups on IoP. Had another one last night where my NRbridge firmware driving my MagicHome lights would not operate some RGBW strings after a power blink. Still not up quite to par with ISY994 and a RPi, unfortunately, at least the way I use it.
MrBill Posted July 17, 2022 Posted July 17, 2022 (edited) 3 hours ago, larryllix said: Yeah, but for the second time now I am contemplating going back to ISY994. Too many bugs and lockups on IoP. Had another one last night where my NRbridge firmware driving my MagicHome lights would not operate some RGBW strings after a power blink. Still not up quite to par with ISY994 and a RPi, unfortunately, at least the way I use it. I haven't moved over to IoP yet, the 994 is still running the show. I have moved more to Home Assistant than previously. Some newer purchases are only supported there and don't have node servers, in other cases it's just because I want to not pay for node servers that are maintained by one person each and if that person looses interest or doesn't have time anymore the node server seems to just die. Under PG2 at least you had access to the code and could improve things on your own (I do have one PG2 node server that I improved on my own.) Under PG3 there's no access to the source code. So one day it might just quit working and someone would need to start from scratch. I'll continue to rely on my ISY (either 994 or IoP for insteon, but my current goal is to rely less on ISY as controller and more on Home Assistant as the main controller. Edited July 17, 2022 by MrBill 2
palayman Posted July 17, 2022 Posted July 17, 2022 4 hours ago, MrBill said: I haven't moved over to IoP yet, the 994 is still running the show. I have moved more to Home Assistant than previously. Some newer purchases are only supported there and don't have node servers, in other cases it's just because I want to not pay for node servers that are maintained by one person each and if that person looses interest or doesn't have time anymore the node server seems to just die. Under PG2 at least you had access to the code and could improve things on your own (I do have one PG2 node server that I improved on my own.) Under PG3 there's no access to the source code. So one day it might just quit working and someone would need to start from scratch. I'll continue to rely on my ISY (either 994 or IoP for insteon, but my current goal is to rely less on ISY as controller and more on Home Assistant as the main controller. Glad to hear I'm not the only one that feels this way. Really liked PG on Raspberry Pi. Reluctantly bought Polisy, but haven't had the courage to move to IoP, even though the node server I'd really like to add only runs on PG3, while at least one that use heavily hasn't been ported from PG2 yet. Thought about Home Assistant in the past and with both of the integrations I'd like to use being available, maybe it's time to take the plunge.
bpwwer Posted July 18, 2022 Posted July 18, 2022 8 hours ago, MrBill said: Under PG2 at least you had access to the code and could improve things on your own (I do have one PG2 node server that I improved on my own.) Under PG3 there's no access to the source code. So one day it might just quit working and someone would need to start from scratch. That's not entirely true. More than 50% of the PG3 node servers are installed from the source in a github repository and even some that are not installed from a source repository still make the source available. This may not always be true because unfortunately, we live in a world where people will take advantage of other's work and deprive node server authors of reasonable compensation for their work. Also, there are companies that aren't willing to support node servers for their products because they're afraid the lack of protection on the node server source could expose something they consider secret. 2
sjenkins Posted July 18, 2022 Posted July 18, 2022 I appreciate UD has come to a nice middle ground. As @MrBill says I do like having access to the code, both to modify but also to learn from. I am also more than wiling to pass some money to someone even on github in the "Buy me a coffee" size. If the price is too high I will give feedback, not purchase, and respect the writers right to their opinion. I think it is neat that there is the ability to do subscription or buy outright options. Some people have violent opinions on both but it will be interesting which nodes work out one way or the other. I plan on "stealing shamelessly" when I write my next node server but for a different product & not to copy. Where open source meets the market it gets can grey depending on the situation.
Michel Kohanim Posted July 18, 2022 Posted July 18, 2022 @Bumbershoot, It should work. It calls the same functions in polisy. The only reason it's not advertised is because it's not thoroughly tested. @larryllix, Is polisy configuration identical to your 994? @palayman, There are 1000s of polisys running IoP. Just because 1 or 2 have problems should not prevent you from upgrading. With kind regards, Michel 1 1
larryllix Posted July 18, 2022 Posted July 18, 2022 (edited) 4 hours ago, Michel Kohanim said: @Bumbershoot, It should work. It calls the same functions in polisy. The only reason it's not advertised is because it's not thoroughly tested. @larryllix, Is polisy configuration identical to your 994? @palayman, There are 1000s of polisys running IoP. Just because 1 or 2 have problems should not prevent you from upgrading. With kind regards, Michel No. RPi is gone, PG2 is gone, IoP programs started fresh, only a few devices connected, NRbridge software moved from RPi to polisy and using :localhost URL via NRs, new lat/long, new ISP. This happened after a power blink that morning. Seems to be a polisy power up sequence problem...maybe. Edited July 18, 2022 by larryllix
Michel Kohanim Posted July 19, 2022 Posted July 19, 2022 @larryllix, Would love to get to the bottom of these issues. So, please do let me know what other anomalies you see and we'll get it taken care of. I do know we have a crash for due to a Z-Wave db corruption. And, X10 received signals are not formatted properly. And, web server files in network resources cannot be deleted. Apart from that, I am not aware of any other serious bugs. With kind regards, Michel
larryllix Posted July 20, 2022 Posted July 20, 2022 (edited) 19 hours ago, Michel Kohanim said: @larryllix, Would love to get to the bottom of these issues. So, please do let me know what other anomalies you see and we'll get it taken care of. I do know we have a crash for due to a Z-Wave db corruption. And, X10 received signals are not formatted properly. And, web server files in network resources cannot be deleted. Apart from that, I am not aware of any other serious bugs. With kind regards, Michel I believe this may be centered around my software also running on polisy. Previously, it seemed to be a problem running under polisy O/S and I moved it back to an RPi again where it has ran without problem for a few years. I suspect it could be related to a different python 3 implementation under freeBSD, and/or a threaded keepalive task running. I need to implement a logging system to record operation successes and failures, if any, so that I can zoom in on this. Hiccoughs have been very rare...maybe once every few months. I do have a SiLabs ZWave stick plugged into polisy, unused at this time, also. WE do seem to get a lot of power blinks, early in the mornings here, so I may watch those times more closely. Just as an aside my lat/long produces a sunrise about 20 minutes later than actual. However I am 26 floors up and that may be the reason. No the earth isn't flat! Edited July 20, 2022 by larryllix
Michel Kohanim Posted July 20, 2022 Posted July 20, 2022 @larryllix, What other software are you running? With kind regards, Michel
larryllix Posted July 20, 2022 Posted July 20, 2022 @larryllix, What other software are you running? With kind regards, MichelJust my own NRbridge that translates NR commands to MagicHome RGBW bulb and led strip signals. That includes a keepalive thread that polls bulbs every few minutes each. Only running about 8 devices now. Previously (old home) about 50 devices without problem.New router and AP for WiFi delivery since move. Installed inside polisy again also.Polisy hard wired to router.Sent from my SM-G781W using Tapatalk
Michel Kohanim Posted July 21, 2022 Posted July 21, 2022 @larryllix, If you can send me the error log when things go bad, I can take a look. Currently, I really do not see why NRbridge would cause this issue. With kind regards, Michel 1
Bumbershoot Posted July 28, 2022 Author Posted July 28, 2022 On 7/18/2022 at 7:48 AM, Michel Kohanim said: It should work. It calls the same functions in polisy. The only reason it's not advertised is because it's not thoroughly tested. @Michel Kohanim, I'm finally getting around to updating this Polisy. I gave the Firmware Update button on the portal a try (upgrading from 5.4.3 to 5.4.4), and it didn't succeed. The error is in the screenshot.
MrBill Posted July 29, 2022 Posted July 29, 2022 @Bumbershoot I've heard we aren't supposed to use the portal update and i've asked, even recently why the function even exists if we aren't supposed to use it, but the question always goes unanswered.
Geddy Posted July 29, 2022 Posted July 29, 2022 On 7/18/2022 at 10:48 AM, Michel Kohanim said: @Bumbershoot, It should work. It calls the same functions in polisy. The only reason it's not advertised is because it's not thoroughly tested. @Bumbershoot guess that answers your question...it's not thoroughly tested and thus you've shown it doesn't fully work (at least not for your attempt). From memory there's been several questions about that function in the past (like @MrBill's above). I've seen @Michel Kohanim say specifically in the past not to use it, but I forget what it was for...I want to say it was more geared toward ISY994 updating to 5.x, but that's just going from memory. @Bumbershoot Do you know if it messed anything up on the device you were trying to update? I know you said it was for a vacation home so maybe you're there now and can attempt updates locally.
Michel Kohanim Posted July 29, 2022 Posted July 29, 2022 @Bumbershoot, We'll look into it. It should work. @Geddy, The difference between 994 and polisy is: for 994, you need to upload the whole zip file into 994. That's why the portal is not a good idea. On Polisy, the packages are downloaded by Polisy. So, portal would be very similar to clicking the button on the Update Packages button. This said, since it's not working, it's best to use the Admin Console locally. With kind regards, Michel 1
Bumbershoot Posted July 29, 2022 Author Posted July 29, 2022 39 minutes ago, Michel Kohanim said: This said, since it's not working, it's best to use the Admin Console locally. That's what I did after I tried the portal. Thought I'd take a pass at the portal method, though. @Geddy, I'm pretty sure there were no bad effects. The failure occurred instantly, and the ISY software didn't restart. Upgrading from the Help | About menu in the AC seemed to work normally. 1
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