Migration 994/zwave to Eisy/Zmatter

[Mecheng70]

Would be nice to see how others are planning to migrate from 994 with zwave for use with HA.  I'm thinking that I would need to use an aeotec USB to back up too and then restore. 

Could you use the eisy with zmatter as a secondary controller to the 994/zwave and then shift over to it?  Wouldn't that keep the nodes the same?  

Or I was thinking of completely rebuilding the entire system. 

[Geddy]

@Mecheng70 the ideal situation was to be a migration path that would be possible with the firmware for the IoX on the eisy. Although, it appears there are some issues in that plan and it might not be possible or at least very delayed. 

Are you only controlling z-wave with the ISY994 or do you also have Insteon devices and a PLM connected? It sounds like Insteon/PLM should be straight forward migration (about like it was with ISY994 -> Polisy). The z-wave will remain the biggest hurdle for the time being. 

I've seen others comment that it's not wise to have two controllers running at once. It's kind of like replacing a home router. Turn one off, turn the other on and tinker with it to get it running the way you want it. 

 

[elvisimprsntr]

I have the same question. I have a 994 running 4.x firmware and the original zwave 400 (?) module. I have been procrastinating moving to 5.x which I think requires the 500 series zwave module. I have have the Elk M1 and ISY module. I use eKeyPad Pro and MobiLinc HD as my primary apps for local and remote access.

I think I read the 500 series zwave module are no long offered or available, so I may have missed the boat. For the new Polisy and eISY I think I read there is only a path from the 5.x firmware and I don’t want to loose eKeypad and MobiLinc HD support.


What are my options?

1. Stick with what I have and wait for Matter and what ever products to mature before abandoning my current kit?
2. Find someone willing to sell their 500 series zwave module and upgrade to 5.x to prolong my current kit death and provide a eventual upgrade path for what ever comes next?

Edited December 18, 2022 by elvisimprsntr

[Mecheng70]

I only have zwave on my isy.  So I will have that hurdle. 😂

[Geddy]

56 minutes ago, elvisimprsntr said:

I have a 994 running 4.x firmware and the original zwave 400 (?) module. I have be procrastinating moving to 5.x which I think requires the 500 series zwave module.

Should be a 300 series z-wave controller. You can go to 5.x, but the highest you could go would be 5.0.16C. Be careful if you plan to upgrade to that version because there were big (perhaps HUGE) changes from 4.x to 5.x. Make sure you read the steps if you do decide to update, but at this late game it might not be of value to you to upgrade. There's not much ability gained going to 5.x (5.0.16C in your case) without running a Polisy for PG3 (or rpi locally for PG2) to have access to run node servers. 

57 minutes ago, elvisimprsntr said:

I don’t want to loose eKeypad and MobiLinc HD support.

I don't know about eKeypad, but I also use Mobilinc and it works fine with 5.x (I'm running on 5.3.4 on ISY994). There seems to be issues with Moblinc on ISY on Polisy, but haven't attempted that route so can't comment further. Though it does sound like the developer for Moblinc might update the product to be able to be used with Polisy/eisy in the future. You should check with them for support options moving forward.

59 minutes ago, elvisimprsntr said:

What are my options?

At this point I might suggest just getting the eisy + ZMatter board and starting fresh. It's quite the task to update to 5.0.16C and then another task to learn the eisy+ZMatter system (once eisy is even out). You would be better served starting fresh (IMO) and also learning UD Mobile for the remote access. It's certainly become the go-to app for many around here.

The ultimate question is what devices are you connecting to? If 100% of your z-wave devices are 300 series then you can use those, but it will be limited. If no devices have been updated to 500 or 700 (zwave plus) devices then you've got bigger issues than trying to figure out what controller you want to use.

1 hour ago, elvisimprsntr said:

I have have the Elk M1 and ISY module

Note too that Elk is no longer handled as a module, but as a node server. So if you don't have a Polisy you wouldn't be able to connect to the Elk until you have eisy and IoX running and install the Elk node server. The Elk module would still work in 5.0.16C as it wasn't until you went to ISY on Polisy (now IoX) that you lost the modules. 

I'm not sure what "ISY Module" is. Do you mean ISY Portal?

[Geddy]

1 minute ago, Mecheng70 said:

I only have zwave on my isy.  So I will have that hurdle. 😂

Might be best to wait and see how the migration process works out before planning further move. From the comments it sounds like they're very focused on getting z-wave migration worked out as soon as possible. 🤞

[Mecheng70]

2 hours ago, Geddy said:

Might be best to wait and see how the migration process works out before planning further move. From the comments it sounds like they're very focused on getting z-wave migration worked out as soon as possible. 🤞

I was going to definitely back up everything before I attempted anything. 

[elvisimprsntr]

@GeddyThanks for the responses.  
My current kit is in the the Ron Popeil "Set it, and forget it" state.  There is no compelling reason to upgrade, and only adds high likelihood of breaking compatibility with eKeypad Pro, Mobilinc HD, and the Elk M1.  At this point in my life, I don't have the time or energy to dedicate to learning and managing another project.  I am also faced with the high likelihood that I will have to rip out all my existing kit prior to selling my home after I retire, since no one will have the skills or patience to deal with it.
 
 

On 12/17/2022 at 6:51 PM, Geddy said:

I'm not sure what "ISY Module" is. Do you mean ISY Portal?

The ISY Elk Module.

Edited December 21, 2022 by elvisimprsntr

[GJ Software Products]

For what it’s worth, earlier on in the thread it was mentioned, “I don't know about eKeypad, but I also use Mobilinc and it works fine with 5.x (I'm running on 5.3.4 on ISY994). “

I’m running eKeypad against a 994i at 5.3.4 with Insteon & the 500 Z-Wave board and eKeypad works fine.

[NFLnut]

My 2413S connects to my ISY994 with an ethernet cable (both ends). What cable do I need to connect to the eisy? Obviously, ethernet to USB, but is there an off the rack cable that I can use? I looked for any cables that came with the 2413 but I either didn't get one with it or I've misplaced it.

[GJ Software Products]

40 minutes ago, NFLnut said:

My 2413S connects to my ISY994 with an ethernet cable (both ends). What cable do I need to connect to the eisy? Obviously, ethernet to USB, but is there an off the rack cable that I can use? I looked for any cables that came with the 2413 but I either didn't get one with it or I've misplaced it.

Actually USB to RS-232  on a USB to DB-9 to RJ-45.  You could build one but UD is selling a kit, https://www.universal-devices.com/product/serial-plm-kit/  I bought the kit for 30 bucks I think it is even though I had all the parts somewhere in my garage, for 30 bucks I got the "official" kit from UD,  Such a deal!     -Grant

[NFLnut]

45 minutes ago, GJ Software Products said:

Actually USB to RS-232  on a USB to DB-9 to RJ-45.  You could build one but UD is selling a kit, https://www.universal-devices.com/product/serial-plm-kit/  I bought the kit for 30 bucks I think it is even though I had all the parts somewhere in my garage, for 30 bucks I got the "official" kit from UD,  Such a deal!     -Grant

My 2413S has ethernet out. Not the serial out. So, somehow I need an Ethernet to USB cable.

[mwester]

15 minutes ago, NFLnut said:

My 2413S has ethernet out. Not the serial out. So, somehow I need an Ethernet to USB cable.

No.  There is no ethernet involved in connecting the 2413S.

Ethernet and RS232 (aka "serial") can be thought of as the electrical waveforms on the wires.  Even though the connector (RJ45) and the cable look identical to the cable used by ethernet, the electrical signals on the wires are very different between an ethernet port and an RS-232 serial port.  The 2413S cannot speak ethernet, and no ethernet converters will do the job.

 

The 2413S speaks RS-232 serial.   What looks like an ethernet port is actually an RJ45 connector on which the RS232 serial electrical signals appear.  So, since the EISY provides only USB ports, you will require a USB to serial converter in order to be electrically compatible.  Most of these converters provide the more common DB-9 or DB-25 connectors, so the final part of the solution is a cable that terminates on one end in a matching DB-9 or DB-25 connector, and at the other in an RJ45 male connector.

The earlier posts in this thread note that UD sells a kit for this.  You can also do it yourself if you are handy and not afraid of creating custom cables.  The correct pins to match up between the DB-9 and the RJ45 have been noted by others in other threads on the forum; a little searching will find those should you choose that course.

[Brian H]

7 hours ago, NFLnut said:

My 2413S has ethernet out. Not the serial out. So, somehow I need an Ethernet to USB cable.

No it is a serial connection. On a RJ45 jack you normally seen as Ethernet connector. In this case only Pin 7 Common Ground, Pin 1 RS232 (Rx) and Pin 8 RS232 (Tx) are used. To be safe don't let any other signal pins connect to anything. The needed RJ45 to DB9S cable was shipped inside the 2413S shipping cradle but many didn't find it.

Pin 1: RS232 to PC pin 2 (Rx)
Pin 2: Not Connected
Pin 3: TTL Output (from PLM)
Pins 4 & 5: Not connected
Pin 6: TTL Input (from PLM)
Pin 7: Common Ground to PC pin 5 (Ground)
Pin 8: RS232 from PC pin 3 (Tx)

No Hardware Handshake
19,200 baud
8 data bits
No parity
1 stop bit

Edited December 29, 2022 by Brian H
Add information

[NFLnut]

13 hours ago, mwester said:

The earlier posts in this thread note that UD sells a kit for this.  You can also do it yourself if you are handy and not afraid of creating custom cables.  The correct pins to match up between the DB-9 and the RJ45 have been noted by others in other threads on the forum; a little searching will find those should you choose that course.

The U-D kit listed above will not work. It is Serial to USB OR "ethernet" (albeit "serial") to "ethernet" (serial).

As to creating my own cable. I might have the ability to search for the pin info but I do not have the time to do it and create/kludge a cable. Disappointed that we can't just use the 2413 to ISY cable ("ethernet"-->"ethernet") I've used for 7 years! We now have to search for a USB.

Wondering if an ethernet to USB converter would work ..?

[NFLnut]

8 hours ago, Brian H said:

No it is a serial connection. On a RJ45 jack you normally seen as Ethernet connector. In this case only Pin 7 Common Ground, Pin 1 RS232 (Rx) and Pin 8 RS232 (Tx) are used. To be safe don't let any other signal pins connect to anything. The needed RJ45 to DB9S cable was shipped inside the 2413S shipping cradle but many didn't find it.

Pin 1: RS232 to PC pin 2 (Rx)
Pin 2: Not Connected
Pin 3: TTL Output (from PLM)
Pins 4 & 5: Not connected
Pin 6: TTL Input (from PLM)
Pin 7: Common Ground to PC pin 5 (Ground)
Pin 8: RS232 from PC pin 3 (Tx)

No Hardware Handshake
19,200 baud
8 data bits
No parity
1 stop bit

But we need serial (RJ45) to USB.

[lilyoyo1]

11 minutes ago, NFLnut said:

The U-D kit listed above will not work. It is Serial to USB OR "ethernet" (albeit "serial") to "ethernet" (serial).

As to creating my own cable. I might have the ability to search for the pin info but I do not have the time to do it and create/kludge a cable. Disappointed that we can't just use the 2413 to ISY cable ("ethernet"-->"ethernet") I've used for 7 years! We now have to search for a USB.

Wondering if an ethernet to USB converter would work ..?

How will UDI's kit not work when it's designed specifically for the 2413s

[NFLnut]

13 hours ago, mwester said:

So, since the EISY provides only USB ports, you will require a USB to serial converter in order to be electrically compatible.  Most of these converters provide the more common DB-9 or DB-25 connectors, so the final part of the solution is a cable that terminates on one end in a matching DB-9 or DB-25 connector, and at the other in an RJ45 male connector.

I missed this on first read. I have a serial-to-USB converter that I used in the past. I assume that WILL work? Then, the kit (currently "Out of Stock" which is a bummer) has the RJ45 to serial converter although the pic doesn't show the two sides of that connector, the description does list it as such. So, I could use the RJ45 to RJ45 I've been using to the ISY into the converter and to my Serial to USB converter I have?

If only it was available to order ..

[NFLnut]

So, for anyone who's still with us .. and since the U-D kit is out of stock .. would THIS work as a replacement? https://www.amazon.com/Adapter-Ethernet-Converter-Compatible-Standard/dp/B08JLWRFH6/ref=sr_1_3?keywords=db9+to+rj45+converter&link_code=qs&qid=1672342715&sourceid=Mozilla-search&sr=8-3 Then, use my serial to USB that I already have? Or would the pins be off since this adapter is not made for the 2413S?

[Geddy]

1 hour ago, NFLnut said:

. would THIS work as a replacement?

It might, but most have been getting this (or something similar) and making their own connection as @Brian H points out above.

https://smile.amazon.com/dp/B00006IRQA (DB9 to RJ45 Modular Adapter - F/F)

Then check your serial to USB that you might have. If not you can get this: https://smile.amazon.com/dp/B00IDSM6BW

[Mecheng70]

Received my eisy yesterday in the mail.  Waiting for the zmatter to arrive. 

 

[NFLnut]

5 hours ago, Geddy said:

It might, but most have been getting this (or something similar) and making their own connection as @Brian H points out above.

https://smile.amazon.com/dp/B00006IRQA (DB9 to RJ45 Modular Adapter - F/F)

Then check your serial to USB that you might have. If not you can get this: https://smile.amazon.com/dp/B00IDSM6BW

Thanks! I probably would've never found that on my own. I would buy the U-D kit if it was available but as soon as I get the ZMatter USB board (if it's the one shipping from Portland, I was supposed to get it yesterday but USPS screwed up again and it'll be 12/31) I will be migrating and shutting the old faithful ISY994 down.

[Geddy]

14 hours ago, NFLnut said:

I probably would've never found that on my own

If you had searched the forums you probably would have eventually found those links. They've been posted in many places. It was just recently that UDI offered the kit for making the conversion. I had been suggesting that recently, but with that out of stock (currently) if it's mission critical then Amazon to the rescue. Otherwise, hopefully UDI gets some back in stock and can ship soon. 

 

 

[Don]

It seem from everyone is saying that there is no clear way to migrate z wave modules to eisy.  That means re-linking all my z wave.  Are there any suggestions?

[Techman]

@Chris Jahn

I would like to test a few Z-wave devices with the eisy. When I plug the Zmatter dongle into the eisy I get a "Z-wave dongle not responding" error.

I'm assuming that I need to push the Migrate button in order for the eisy to recognize the Zmatter dongle. Will I then lose the ability to migrate my 500 Z-wave network to the eisy, as once the migrate button is pushed the options are no longer available as was the case with the Polisy.