ZMatter Basic Scene/Associations how to use in v5.5.0

[GJ Software Products]

19 hours ago, TRI0N said:

I have the ZEN32's I'm installing to replace my Insteon Scene Controllers. However I can only get the buttons below to "turn on" a scene by assigning that button as a control to the scene of the lights I want to control. There is no way to modify the RGB colors of the buttons, you can't turn off a scene just by assigning that button as the controller to the responders of a scene. It can only turn them on. Which leads to yet another problem of if the lights turn off by timer that I have set, the button does not default back to it's original state with the light on. So now if I press it with the light off it turns on and the light on the button is on. Which is super silly. 

Main button is actually connected to Line/Load for the main recessed light fixtures so that has no problem whatsoever on controlling the lights. What I need this to do it very basic but it don't turn that scene off or reset the button led if the scene is turned off.

What I want it to do:
1) Main button (biggest one): Odd number of recessed light fixtures control for kitchen (LED Blue) [IS as Button 5 if you want to add scenes to it]
2) Scene Button 2: Even number of recessed light fixtures control for kitchen Z-Wave Single Pole Relay (LED Blue) [ID as Button 1 in UDAC]
3) Scene Button 3: Kitchen island pendent lights Z-Wave Single Pole Relay - Direct to Lights) (LED Green) [ID as Button 2 in UDAC]
4) Scene Button 4: Under cabinet lights Z-Wave Single Pole Relay (LED Yellow) [ID as Button 3 in UDAC]
5) Scene Button 5: Not Used as of yet. [ID as Button 4 in UDAC]

 

TRI0N

@TRI0N  Take a look at

That's how I replaced my KeypadLincs.  You'll need the advanced sheet from Zooz that gives you all the paramaters too...

[TRI0N]

Update: Only the main Binary Button responds as a toggle switch. I also tried the 2 taps for off. Nope. That's not turning off. 

Now someone mentioned adding one of the associations to the switch. This is what I can figure out about what was added when I included the device. Here is the device as is, I have not renamed this yet till things are working as intended. 

I also added the Tech Support Clip of what Association information I could find about the other top ones. It looks like it's only pulling the Association Groups 2, 4, 6, 8, 10 respectively for each button for example "Group 4: Small button #1 basic set (pressed)"

So in theory, ZY 002 Scene Button 2 and ZY 002 Basic Association Only 6 go together in the proposed request. So I tried this for a test scene adding the association to the scene:

Then I got this showing Button 2 Status in the Test Scene as being On. I'm not sure if that is the LED or miss information. It does not change if I press the button. 



That's where I'm at right now with this product. Sum it up. I'm still where I was except the Button Status saying it's on.

Any idea would be great. It was worth a shot...


TRI0N

Edited January 21, 2023 by TRI0N

[brians]

2 hours ago, TRI0N said:

Update: Only the main Binary Button responds as a toggle switch. I also tried the 2 taps for off. Nope. That's not turning off. 

Now someone mentioned adding one of the associations to the switch. This is what I can figure out about what was added when I included the device. Here is the device as is, I have not renamed this yet till things are working as intended. 

I also added the Tech Support Clip of what Association information I could find about the other top ones. It looks like it's only pulling the Association Groups 2, 4, 6, 8, 10 respectively for each button for example "Group 4: Small button #1 basic set (pressed)"

So in theory, ZY 002 Scene Button 2 and ZY 002 Basic Association Only 6 go together in the proposed request. So I tried this for a test scene adding the association to the scene:

Then I got this showing Button 2 Status in the Test Scene as being On. I'm not sure if that is the LED or miss information. It does not change if I press the button. 



That's where I'm at right now with this product. Sum it up. I'm still where I was except the Button Status saying it's on.

Any idea would be great. It was worth a shot...


TRI0N

This thread we are discussing is actually how to do Basic Associations on ZMatter and from what I read you haven't tried yet with the Zen32. I would forget the relay button for now and focus on the little buttons. Please read the first posts in this thread how I explain basic associations work in scenes to control other zwave devices, and see how it would apply to the Zen32. Afterwards, the following should make sense... The Zen32 has basic association 2,4,6,8,10 nodes that could add one for testing to a scene along with a zwave switch node, so select one to test then select its  node on left, then click on the zwave switch node on right in scene, and then using the pulldown and selecting zwave basic mc. After doing this see if the switch  turns on/off with the button you used to test. If that works then can try more tests to work on led sync issues etc. There may be a chance that it only turns the switch on and not off, I am curious if it toggles though.

 

 

 

[brians]

7 hours ago, GJ Software Products said:

@TRI0N  Take a look at

That's how I replaced my KeypadLincs.  You'll need the advanced sheet from Zooz that gives you all the paramaters too...

I didn't see anything in that link how you did it, if you figured out zwave basic associations for zen32 to control other zwave devices without having to use programs then please post here.

[GJ Software Products]

@briansNo, I haven't figured out how to do it using basic associations.  I really don't know squat about zwave basic associations.  I started playing with a scene but got nowhere.  I'm just using programs to make them behave like a KeypadLinc.

Edited January 22, 2023 by GJ Software Products

[TRI0N]

9 hours ago, brians said:

This thread we are discussing is actually how to do Basic Associations on ZMatter and from what I read you haven't tried yet with the Zen32. I would forget the relay button for now and focus on the little buttons. Please read the first posts in this thread how I explain basic associations work in scenes to control other zwave devices, and see how it would apply to the Zen32. Afterwards, the following should make sense... The Zen32 has basic association 2,4,6,8,10 nodes that could add one for testing to a scene along with a zwave switch node, so select one to test then select its  node on left, then click on the zwave switch node on right in scene, and then using the pulldown and selecting zwave basic mc. After doing this see if the switch  turns on/off with the button you used to test. If that works then can try more tests to work on led sync issues etc. There may be a chance that it only turns the switch on and not off, I am curious if it toggles though.

 

 

 

Okay first I did sway away from from the topic of z-wave and was using kasa that should be in another discussion.

However with your suggestion I was able to make the Scene Buttons work with what they really needed to do and the On/Off is now toggled and the light does work but I wouldn't bet on the LED not falling out of Sync with if the lights but I can just make the LEDS stay on if it does.

What I'm Using:

• Zooz 700 Series ZEN32 Scene Controller | Main Scene Controllers for Kitchen/Patio/Rooms with Multi Lighting or power scenes like plugs etc.
  
  

 

• EnerWave Smart Dual Relay Switch Module | Fans with lights for separate control, kitchen main lights so that half (odd) and half (even) can be use to create all around ambient lighting, can be used for many 10A applications. It's literally 1/4 the size of a Insteon Fan Controller or other relay they sold.
  
  

 

• EnerWave Smart Single Relay Switch Module | Fans with no lights, kitchen island pendent lights, shower recess lighting, things that you can either control via scene or voice. *In this example it will be kitchen pendent lights. First thing you are going to notice it this is really small! Like 1/6th the size of a Insteon Fan Controller or other relay they sold.
  
  

 

Example used to to make the Pendent Lights turn on/off  as Brian stated with this model is as followed:

• ZY 005 On-Off Power Switch = EnerWave Smart Single Relay Switch Module
• ZY 002 Scene Button 1 = Zooz 700 Series ZEN32 Scene Controller (Small Button with Green LED in pic above)
• ZY 002 Basic Assoc Only 4 = Brian's fix to the On/Off problem with the Scene Buttons. Adding the Association which in this case was Basic Function needed to be assigned to the scene as well.

IMPORTANT PART:

You must set this for the Scene button to function correctly for On/Off toggling. Otherwise I don't know of any other way to make the scene button toggle by default. 

Cheers!

TRI0N

Edited January 22, 2023 by TRI0N

[TRI0N]

Let me be clear here on Button and Association Numbers:

Scene Button # | Basic Assoc Only #

1 | 4
2 | 6
3 | 8
4 | 10

Main Button/Scene Button 5 | 2 (Main Button has Scene 5 in addition to Direct Wire Load by default).

Hope this helps...

 

TRI0N

Edited January 22, 2023 by TRI0N

[brians]

16 hours ago, TRI0N said:

Okay first I did sway away from from the topic of z-wave and was using kasa that should be in another discussion.

However with your suggestion I was able to make the Scene Buttons work with what they really needed to do and the On/Off is now toggled and the light does work but I wouldn't bet on the LED not falling out of Sync with if the lights but I can just make the LEDS stay on if it does.

What I'm Using:

• Zooz 700 Series ZEN32 Scene Controller | Main Scene Controllers for Kitchen/Patio/Rooms with Multi Lighting or power scenes like plugs etc.
  
  

 

• EnerWave Smart Dual Relay Switch Module | Fans with lights for separate control, kitchen main lights so that half (odd) and half (even) can be use to create all around ambient lighting, can be used for many 10A applications. It's literally 1/4 the size of a Insteon Fan Controller or other relay they sold.
  
  

 

• EnerWave Smart Single Relay Switch Module | Fans with no lights, kitchen island pendent lights, shower recess lighting, things that you can either control via scene or voice. *In this example it will be kitchen pendent lights. First thing you are going to notice it this is really small! Like 1/6th the size of a Insteon Fan Controller or other relay they sold.
  
  

 

Example used to to make the Pendent Lights turn on/off  as Brian stated with this model is as followed:

• ZY 005 On-Off Power Switch = EnerWave Smart Single Relay Switch Module
• ZY 002 Scene Button 1 = Zooz 700 Series ZEN32 Scene Controller (Small Button with Green LED in pic above)
• ZY 002 Basic Assoc Only 4 = Brian's fix to the On/Off problem with the Scene Buttons. Adding the Association which in this case was Basic Function needed to be assigned to the scene as well.

IMPORTANT PART:

You must set this for the Scene button to function correctly for On/Off toggling. Otherwise I don't know of any other way to make the scene button toggle by default. 

Cheers!

TRI0N

Nice that it works. I would be curious though if the Zen32 sends an on/off based on its internal sync of what it knows the controlled switch is currently on/off, OR does it send some sort of toggle command to the ZWave switch. If you turn the relay on/off independent of the Zen32, do you then have to press the button on Zen32 twice?

Also the relays look neat, Zooz has Zen51 and Zen52 but one person reported issue with Zen52 on the ZMatter unable to include.

 

 

[TRI0N]

44 minutes ago, brians said:

Nice that it works. I would be curious though if the Zen32 sends an on/off based on its internal sync of what it knows the controlled switch is currently on/off, OR does it send some sort of toggle command to the ZWave switch. If you turn the relay on/off independent of the Zen32, do you then have to press the button on Zen32 twice?

Also the relays look neat, Zooz has Zen51 and Zen52 but one person reported issue with Zen52 on the ZMatter unable to include.

 

 

The default of the scene switches lack easy toggling. The Relay (Main Larger Button) when direct wired acts like a normal on/off. Otherwise unless you assign the appropriate Association to that scene the Scene Buttons will only turns things on. One person thought you could double tap the paddles to make it turn off but that is not the case with this ZEN32 might work for their smart switches . The 5 "scene" features are not toggle. I would assume they will eventually get the other associations for this working for the other types of one off setting such as short to long press for light dimming setup too. But for now it's just pulling the Basic Association of Off/On setting or no Association assign (default) will only toggle the device on.

I'm glad I got this to work to replace the Scene Control I had from Insteon and appears to be the only Z-Wave Scene Controller available with at least 5 buttons. Leave one left over for whatever I decided to assign it to. The right bottom I have assigned a Good Night Button, that will turn all lights off, set the night light rings around the recess lighting on for 1 minute, lock all doors, arm the alarm for home mode... So it does the trick just needs more support for it's full capabilities.

If I get a chance I'll see if I can pick up a ZEN51 or ZEN52 to play with for maybe use it at the office location eisy. 


TRI0N

[brians]

4 minutes ago, TRI0N said:

The 5 "scene" features are not toggle. I would assume they will eventually get the other associations for this working for the other types of one off setting such as short to long press for light dimming setup too. But for now it's just pulling the Basic Association of Off/On setting or no Association assign (default) will only toggle the device on.
 

Presuming you have button one controlling a relay with basic assoc... When you press button one on Zen32 with direct scene assoc which turns a relay on. Then you turn said relay off not using the button but instead using AC. What happens when you press button one again on Zen32? Does the Zen32 believe it's still on and tries to turn it off again, and required a second button press to actually turn on? In other words, I wonder if Zen32 has an internal state that keeps track of the buttons being on or off?!?

For dimming yes it appears ZMatter is missing the Basic Assoc Nodes eg. button one would be Group 5 etc.

 

 

[TRI0N]

56 minutes ago, brians said:

Presuming you have button one controlling a relay with basic assoc... When you press button one on Zen32 with direct scene assoc which turns a relay on. Then you turn said relay off not using the button but instead using AC. What happens when you press button one again on Zen32? Does the Zen32 believe it's still on and tries to turn it off again, and required a second button press to actually turn on? In other words, I wonder if Zen32 has an internal state that keeps track of the buttons being on or off?!?

For dimming yes it appears ZMatter is missing the Basic Assoc Nodes eg. button one would be Group 5 etc.

 

 

Yeah I'm under the assumption that the LEDs in the ZEN32 Scenes don't sync with on/off as in power state.  I need to test that now that I have the correct associations mapped out and turn it off in the UDAC and see if the LED represents Power State or just represents a paddle press.

It could be fixed with a program however I seriously doubt at this time read the LED Button Light State like you could with Insteon. It's not reading that information just yet into eisy so we can't just make a if scene button 1 status check to see the LED is off and kitchen pendent lights are off then set button  LED On.

I do know if you hold the top main binary switch for 30 seconds and wait for the led to turn red, tap button 4 (bottom right) and it will preform a signal strength test for each scene button.

I'll get back to you when I perform this this later today. I have some more HUE recess lights to install in the all rooms. I just ran new wiring for 2 gang box for switches in each room and I'll test it when I get the last 3 rooms done.


Cheers!

TRI0N

Edited January 22, 2023 by TRI0N

[brians]

10 minutes ago, TRI0N said:

Yeah I'm under the assumption that the LEDs in the ZEN32 Scenes don't sync with on/off as in power state.  I need to test that now that I have the correct associations mapped out and turn it off in the UDAC and see if the LED represents Power State or just represents a paddle press.

I do know if you hold the top main binary switch for 30 seconds and wait for the led to turn red, tap button 4 (bottom right) and it will preform a signal strength test for each scene button.

I'll get back to you when I perform this this later today. I have some more HUE recess lights to install in the all rooms. I just ran new wiring for 2 gang box for switches in each room and I'll test it when I get the last 3 rooms done.


Cheers!

TRI0N

OK, and if scenes don't work out it is easy to do with program instead, or scenes do still turn on/off and  LEDs are out of sync could just make a program to sync them (see end of this). I don't have a Zen32, but here is an example concept I just quickly did that does this with with two programs... whenever a motion sensor is triggered in my hallway it toggles the family room light on/off. Just make sure the program that does the toggle is disabled otherwise it will run/loop continuously because it self-triggers. You could apply this idea easily to a button press on Zen32 instead of my motion sensor example, and can do other specific things and run more programs if controlling more lights. You could also set parameters to keep LEDs in sync, but if more than one light controlled would recommend making LED sync a separate program for each button which if ORs the state of all the lights and sets LED on/off as needed eg. pseudo code: if light1 is on OR light2 is on or light3 is on then turn on LED, else turn off LED.

 

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Check Switch - [ID 00C0][Parent 0072]

If
        'Alarm Panel / Zone 03 - Hall Motion' Zone State is Open
 
Then
        Run Program 'Toggle Light' (If)
 
Else
   - No Actions - (To add one, press 'Action')
 



-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Toggle Light - [ID 00C1][Parent 0072][Not Enabled]

If
        'Family Room / Family Room Ceiling' Status is Off
 
Then
        Set 'Family Room / Family Room Ceiling' On
 
Else
        Set 'Family Room / Family Room Ceiling' Off
 

The benefit of basic set is the switch will still be controlled if the IoX controller is offline which could be important, I think some codes require a dedicated light control for each room (but sorta grey area for DIYers  ) If just accessory lights no big deal... also IoX is pretty stable and my Polisy is very stable and never goes offline. But I don't think I would want the main light in a room reliant on a controller however.

[TRI0N]

18 minutes ago, brians said:

OK, and if scenes don't work out it is easy to do with program instead, or scenes do still turn on/off and  LEDs are out of sync could just make a program to sync them (see end of this). I don't have a Zen32, but here is an example concept I just quickly did that does this with with two programs... whenever a motion sensor is triggered in my hallway it toggles the family room light on/off. Just make sure the program that does the toggle is disabled otherwise it will run/loop continuously because it self-triggers. You could apply this idea easily to a button press on Zen32 instead of my motion sensor example, and can do other specific things and run more programs if controlling more lights. You could also set parameters to keep LEDs in sync, but if more than one light controlled would recommend making LED sync a separate program for each button which if ORs the state of all the lights and sets LED on/off as needed eg. pseudo code: if light1 is on OR light2 is on or light3 is on then turn on LED, else turn off LED.

 

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Check Switch - [ID 00C0][Parent 0072]

If
        'Alarm Panel / Zone 03 - Hall Motion' Zone State is Open
 
Then
        Run Program 'Toggle Light' (If)
 
Else
   - No Actions - (To add one, press 'Action')
 



-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Toggle Light - [ID 00C1][Parent 0072][Not Enabled]

If
        'Family Room / Family Room Ceiling' Status is Off
 
Then
        Set 'Family Room / Family Room Ceiling' On
 
Else
        Set 'Family Room / Family Room Ceiling' Off
 

The benefit of basic set is the switch will still be controlled if the IoX controller is offline which could be important, I think some codes require a dedicated light control for each room (but sorta grey area for DIYers  ) If just accessory lights no big deal... also IoX is pretty stable and my Polisy is very stable and never goes offline. But I don't think I would want the main light in a room reliant on a controller however.

I stick with codes as much as possible since I'm also an Electrical Engineer. Some of my work for retrofitting older buildings for new electrical systems for underground SEC.
 

TRI0N

Edited January 22, 2023 by TRI0N

[brians]

I just ordered a Zen32 and a Zen51 so I can test. I have a different eventual use for Zen51 which is to monitor an AC pump.

[TRI0N]

6 hours ago, brians said:

I just ordered a Zen32 and a Zen51 so I can test. I have a different eventual use for Zen51 which is to monitor an AC pump.

Nice I'll probably pick up a ZEN51 soon too. I did perform that test of turning the light on with ZEN32 Scene Button and then turned it off via UDAC... It didn't change the LED state to off (LED On for nightlight) so that just tells us it's not based on power state and just paddle toggles. The button was still with the light out in On State and the lights were off so when I pressed it the lights came on and the LED was in Power Off State. So if that persists to being a problem down the road I can set each button LED to remain on or off no matter what state it is in.

[brians]

16 minutes ago, TRI0N said:

Nice I'll probably pick up a ZEN51 soon too. I did perform that test of turning the light on with ZEN32 Scene Button and then turned it off via UDAC... It didn't change the LED state to off (LED On for nightlight) so that just tells us it's not based on power state and just paddle toggles. The button was still with the light out in On State and the lights were off so when I pressed it the lights came on and the LED was in Power Off State. So if that persists to being a problem down the road I can set each button LED to remain on or off no matter what state it is in.

Actually that is sorta good news considering the zen32 limitations. Could just write four programs that toggle the led, and make sure you set that parameter so doesn’t flash leds when doing parameter updates. Would be a slight delay but leds would stay in sync. I do this with Insteon keypadlincs also to sync their state and works fine. 

[trevorst]

I just installed a Zen32 yesterday and I really like it for my usage. To report on real life speed, it is very fast on my mesh of 14 switches, no perceived delay. my main usage is controlling Hue light scenes in my family room using programs. Using just the 1 and 2 buttons I have 6 scenes and fade up/fade down capability.  I am not using the LED’s, they are set to off at the moment but I may change to permanently on.

I may try setting up button 3 to basic link to the main light switches for the Hue lights. Also the main paddle is set to control my patio lights and I do not see the relay switch changing status when scene control buttons are pressed.

 

[TRI0N]

1 hour ago, trevorst said:

I just installed a Zen32 yesterday and I really like it for my usage. To report on real life speed, it is very fast on my mesh of 14 switches, no perceived delay. my main usage is controlling Hue light scenes in my family room using programs. Using just the 1 and 2 buttons I have 6 scenes and fade up/fade down capability.  I am not using the LED’s, they are set to off at the moment but I may change to permanently on.

I may try setting up button 3 to basic link to the main light switches for the Hue lights. Also the main paddle is set to control my patio lights and I do not see the relay switch changing status when scene control buttons are pressed.

 

Not sure how you assigned a program to the ZEN32 Scene Buttons but I'd sure like to see how you did that to control Kasa and my own HUE I use for outdoor lights. I was under the impression that is yet to be added since I could not find how to assign a scene button to a program. 

As for main button being direct wired to your Main Binary Button, you can disable that being a scene too by sending the Parameter 24 with a value of 1 to disable the Relay Scene Association so that it's just On/Off for Direct Wire with no scene attached.

TRI0N

Edited January 24, 2023 by TRI0N

[TRI0N]

On 1/22/2023 at 2:04 PM, brians said:

OK, and if scenes don't work out it is easy to do with program instead, or scenes do still turn on/off and  LEDs are out of sync could just make a program to sync them (see end of this). I don't have a Zen32, but here is an example concept I just quickly did that does this with with two programs... whenever a motion sensor is triggered in my hallway it toggles the family room light on/off. Just make sure the program that does the toggle is disabled otherwise it will run/loop continuously because it self-triggers. You could apply this idea easily to a button press on Zen32 instead of my motion sensor example, and can do other specific things and run more programs if controlling more lights. You could also set parameters to keep LEDs in sync, but if more than one light controlled would recommend making LED sync a separate program for each button which if ORs the state of all the lights and sets LED on/off as needed eg. pseudo code: if light1 is on OR light2 is on or light3 is on then turn on LED, else turn off LED.

 

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Check Switch - [ID 00C0][Parent 0072]

If
        'Alarm Panel / Zone 03 - Hall Motion' Zone State is Open
 
Then
        Run Program 'Toggle Light' (If)
 
Else
   - No Actions - (To add one, press 'Action')
 



-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Toggle Light - [ID 00C1][Parent 0072][Not Enabled]

If
        'Family Room / Family Room Ceiling' Status is Off
 
Then
        Set 'Family Room / Family Room Ceiling' On
 
Else
        Set 'Family Room / Family Room Ceiling' Off
 

The benefit of basic set is the switch will still be controlled if the IoX controller is offline which could be important, I think some codes require a dedicated light control for each room (but sorta grey area for DIYers  ) If just accessory lights no big deal... also IoX is pretty stable and my Polisy is very stable and never goes offline. But I don't think I would want the main light in a room reliant on a controller however.

Somehow I missed this but there is no way at this time to see the light status of a Scene in the UDAC. So you can't change that either like you could with a Insteon with on/off backlight adjustments.  Maybe it will be added later if it can be which I sure hope it is.

The scene buttons only report on in query at this time.

[trevorst]

19 hours ago, TRI0N said:

Not sure how you assigned a program to the ZEN32 Scene Buttons but I'd sure like to see how you did that to control Kasa and my own HUE I use for outdoor lights. I was under the impression that is yet to be added since I could not find how to assign a scene button to a program. 

As for main button being direct wired to your Main Binary Button, you can disable that being a scene too by sending the Parameter 24 with a value of 1 to disable the Relay Scene Association so that it's just On/Off for Direct Wire with no scene attached.

TRI0N

To assign a program to the zen32 you just assign the Zen Scene button in the If statement, drop down box gives the options of  On (single press), Fast On (double press), fade down, Fade Stop, 3x 4x etc clicks. To get fades just create a program  to use the fade down on one button with then statement to fade down on the Hue group and another program to fade up. Different Scenes can be set with any of the click commands so one button can set several scenes. Fade stops when you release the button so no need for fade stop.

I have the relay button controlling all my outdoor lights using basic association so the button swithces everything on and also my sunrise/sunset program.

Edited January 24, 2023 by trevorst

[brians]

2 hours ago, TRI0N said:

Somehow I missed this but there is no way at this time to see the light status of a Scene in the UDAC. So you can't change that either like you could with a Insteon with on/off backlight adjustments.  Maybe it will be added later if it can be which I sure hope it is.

The scene buttons only report on in query at this time.

You wouldn't be checking the status of the scene, but rather the individual lights which happen to be in that scene.. this all seems a bit redundant I know but is only way to do I believe. I think my Zen32 is out for delivery

 

[MrBill]

3 hours ago, TRI0N said:

Somehow I missed this but there is no way at this time to see the light status of a Scene in the UDAC.

Because technically the way scene's work they actually don't have a status.  Scene commands can be sent, but individual controls and other scene's can alter the scene.    3rd parties apps (such as mobilinc) wrestled with how to show the status of a scene and various conclusions have been reached, the methods aren't unanimous tho.. they all have their own algorithms for determining if a scene is on/off/dimmed.  Insteon themselves came up with a method in their older hub software, but in reality the Insteon protocol doesn't track the status of a scene, only it's members.  (I don't know how Insteon's new hub software handles scene status.)

[TRI0N]

2 hours ago, trevorst said:

To assign a program to the zen32 you just assign the Zen Scene button in the If statement, drop down box gives the options of  On (single press), Fast On (double press), fade down, Fade Stop, 3x 4x etc clicks. To get fades just create a program  to use the fade down on one button with then statement to fade down on the Hue group and another program to fade up. Different Scenes can be set with any of the click commands so one button can set several scenes. Fade stops when you release the button so no need for fade stop.

I have the relay button controlling all my outdoor lights using basic association so the button swithces everything on and also my sunrise/sunset program.

Oh yeah ... Sure I though you were able to actually just assign the program condition to the scene button itself... I was like wait a minute... LoL

Edited January 24, 2023 by TRI0N

[brians]

3 hours ago, MrBill said:

Because technically the way scene's work they actually don't have a status.  Scene commands can be sent, but individual controls and other scene's can alter the scene.    3rd parties apps (such as mobilinc) wrestled with how to show the status of a scene and various conclusions have been reached, the methods aren't unanimous tho.. they all have their own algorithms for determining if a scene is on/off/dimmed.  Insteon themselves came up with a method in their older hub software, but in reality the Insteon protocol doesn't track the status of a scene, only it's members.  (I don't know how Insteon's new hub software handles scene status.)

Yes Mobilinc was sorta magical back in the day when I first wrestled with the buttons not being in sync when I turned a light on/off... yet Mobilinc seemed to operate like one would think... I think I asked this question and the dev told me that it was handled internally by Mobilinc.

I personally don't use scenes that much for day to day control and 99.9% am controlling the light itself.

 

[brians]

On 1/23/2023 at 12:07 AM, brians said:

Actually that is sorta good news considering the zen32 limitations. Could just write four programs that toggle the led, and make sure you set that parameter so doesn’t flash leds when doing parameter updates. Would be a slight delay but leds would stay in sync. I do this with Insteon keypadlincs also to sync their state and works fine. 

After getting my Zen32, I conclude that it keeps its own internal state of each small button whether it is on or off... Depending on the toggle state, in a properly set scene, it sends a basic set command either on or off depending on its internal state. For example, If you turn on a light with button 1, Zen32 thinks it is On, therefore if you then turn off the actual light remotely using AC, the Zen32 still thinks it is On, so to turn it back On again from Zen32 you need to press the button twice.. once to Make Zen32 turn if off again (even though it really is off) and then a second time to turn It on again for real. There is no parameter that can reset/fix the button state (would be nice if it did). I suggest we all make a request to Zooz for a parameter that does this for each button.

I found that making a couple programs and one variable for each button is currently best way for Zen32 on IoX. I'll start a new thread on this maybe since it has nothing to do with basic set.