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Home Assistant / Polisy ISY Node Server vs HA Integrations

stevehoyt

By stevehoyt
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stevehoyt Advanced

stevehoyt

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I have decided to embark down the hybrid path of having a Polisy running ISY with various node servers and Home Assistant. My Home Assistant yellow is ordered and has a 6 week wait time. I have started watching HA tutorials in hopes of having a plan setup for when it arrives. 

I expect to be asking a number of question in the next few months.

My plan was to keep most programming in the ISY part and use HA mostly for creating great visual displays around the house where needed. 

My first question is about HA integrations vs node servers. A number of the node servers I am running: Yolink, Wtags, Flume, etc have HA integrations.

I assume having both an integration and a node server for the same device won't be an issue. All will sync up fine. 

Can someone confirm this and let me know if this is true. Also are there pitfalls to taking this approach, which might lead to sometimes using a device via the ISY path and sometimes via an integration path.

I don't know enough about how cards etc are created to have any idea which I would most likely tend to prefer, when building screens.

 

Thanks

Steve

asbril Advanced

asbril

Posted
Posted
13 minutes ago, stevehoyt said:

I have decided to embark down the hybrid path of having a Polisy running ISY with various node servers and Home Assistant. My Home Assistant yellow is ordered and has a 6 week wait time. I have started watching HA tutorials in hopes of having a plan setup for when it arrives. 

I expect to be asking a number of question in the next few months.

My plan was to keep most programming in the ISY part and use HA mostly for creating great visual displays around the house where needed. 

My first question is about HA integrations vs node servers. A number of the node servers I am running: Yolink, Wtags, Flume, etc have HA integrations.

I assume having both an integration and a node server for the same device won't be an issue. All will sync up fine. 

Can someone confirm this and let me know if this is true. Also are there pitfalls to taking this approach, which might lead to sometimes using a device via the ISY path and sometimes via an integration path.

I don't know enough about how cards etc are created to have any idea which I would most likely tend to prefer, when building screens.

 

Thanks

Steve

My Home Assistant yellow is ordered and has a 6 week wait time

I am jealous..... I ordered mine last Summer and still have not received it. Supposedly it arrives in March .

Yes, you can use  both node servers and Integrations. As an example, I use the Kasa Node Server and the Kasa Integration.

I don't use any of the Integrations that you mention. I find the eisy programing better and easier to use and some node servers are better than their Integration equivalent. For instance @firstone's Holidays Google is more powerful than the HA Google Calendar Integration. On the other hand, HA is more a community development and generally one does not depend on a single developer. HOWEVER, while there is an extensive HA user forum, there is basically no customer support and that can be an issue, especially as we are all addicted to UD's out-of-this-world support.

I find HA to be an excellent complement to my eisy. HA has many more Integrations than eisy has node servers and HA has a nice  UI, allowing me to have both my eisy devices & node servers and HA Integrations on the same page.  While I have the latest Iphone, I am more a PC user and therefore HA is basically on all day, including even  on my Iphone. Of course UD Mobile is an excellent App (Bravo @Javi), but the HA App ($5/mo) gives me access to both eisy and HA.

Enjoy your Polisy and HA and have fun.

firstone Advanced

firstone

Posted
Posted

Node servers would be very iffy when it comes to HA. Since it's ISY integration that controls how entities are created in HA, this would loose any custom node definition that node servers would have. So anything basic, like light switch or light would work fine. Anything more complex would likely not have the right definition. If you're going HA route, probably makes sense to use ISY for insteon and maybe zwave and use HA integration for the rest. 

Geddy Advanced

Geddy

Posted
Posted
3 hours ago, stevehoyt said:

I have started watching HA tutorials in hopes of having a plan setup for when it arrives. 

In addition to videos read a lot of the posts here in the forums about what's going on with ISY (eisy) and HA. @shbatm is the developer for the ISY integration into HA. He's got great plans in a post he made last month - https://forum.universal-devices.com/topic/39772-home-assistant-integration-updates-coming/

There's also been a lot of discussion about how other UD users are incorporating with HA (as @asbril outlines above). It would be wise to review some of those posts.

 

 

Mecheng70 Advanced

Mecheng70

Posted
Posted

@asbril curious, why are you paying $5/mo for the HA mobile app.  

Personally, I am not a fan of the UD mobile app.  It is too rigid and cumbersome to use.  HA offers so much in the human factors and ability to customize the dashboard.  Agave was even a step ahead of UD mobile.  Another functionality aspect is that door locks are not even supported in the mobile app.  They are on the road map, but who knows when that will be updated.  I have been able to create a script in HA that pulls the code from a text box and calls the REST command to update the lock.  HA is much easier to get it to do what I need it to do.  

shbatm Advanced

shbatm

Posted
Posted
3 hours ago, Mecheng70 said:

why are you paying $5/mo for the HA mobile app. 

The subscription is for the cloud access (akin to the ISY Portal) and funds the small full-time development team, but is not required to use the app. You can set up external access several different ways for free if you'd like.

 

15 hours ago, stevehoyt said:

I assume having both an integration and a node server for the same device won't be an issue. All will sync up fine. 

As long as the end service supports multiple connections, you'll be fine. I've only encountered a few (like Envisalink alarm) that only allow one connection at a time. Some cloud-based will have API limits (e.g. Openweathermap), you'll just need to consider both HA and NS are both connecting when setting your update frequencies.

If you use both, I'd suggest using using an Ignore string in the folder name for your node server nodes. That will prevent them from loading in HA and creating duplicates. Use the HA integration for HA and your NS for IoX programs.

 

asbril Advanced

asbril

Posted
Posted
2 hours ago, shbatm said:
6 hours ago, Mecheng70 said:

why are you paying $5/mo for the HA mobile app. 

The subscription is for the cloud access (akin to the ISY Portal) and funds the small full-time development team, but is not required to use the app. You can set up external access several different ways for free if you'd like.

Yes, it is to use the HA App outside of my local network. I did not know that there are free options but I am ok to support the development team, the same way I'd be willing to do the same for UD Mobile.

Mecheng70 Advanced

Mecheng70

Posted
Posted
43 minutes ago, asbril said:

Yes, it is to use the HA App outside of my local network. I did not know that there are free options but I am ok to support the development team, the same way I'd be willing to do the same for UD Mobile.

Oh ok.

I agree in supporting the devs too.  I do a lot of the "buy me a coffee/beer"  every couple of months for the integrations that are used.  Which reminds me that shbatm needs to fix his link.  I've only been able to get it to work once.  

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asbril Advanced

asbril

Posted
Posted
5 minutes ago, Mecheng70 said:

shbatm needs to fix his link

He for sure deserves "buy me a coffee/beer" . Where can I find that link (for when it works again) ?

DennisC Advanced

DennisC

Posted
Posted
7 hours ago, Mecheng70 said:

@asbril curious, why are you paying $5/mo for the HA mobile app.  

Personally, I am not a fan of the UD mobile app.  It is too rigid and cumbersome to use.  HA offers so much in the human factors and ability to customize the dashboard.  Agave was even a step ahead of UD mobile.  Another functionality aspect is that door locks are not even supported in the mobile app.  They are on the road map, but who knows when that will be updated.  I have been able to create a script in HA that pulls the code from a text box and calls the REST command to update the lock.  HA is much easier to get it to do what I need it to do.  

When was the last time you tried UD Mobile?

It's has flexible and customizable as you can get. It supports my Schlage lock just fine.

I also used Agave and paid for lifetime access on tow phones and it does not compare to UD Mobile. At the time I stopped using Agave they were not even supporting node servers.

UD Mobile supports everything I run and you can colors for different status, as well creating favorites.

Mecheng70 Advanced

Mecheng70

Posted
Posted
13 minutes ago, DennisC said:

When was the last time you tried UD Mobile?

It's has flexible and customizable as you can get. It supports my Schlage lock just fine.

I also used Agave and paid for lifetime access on tow phones and it does not compare to UD Mobile. At the time I stopped using Agave they were not even supporting node servers.

UD Mobile supports everything I run and you can colors for different status, as well creating favorites.

Yesterday. In order to "wake" up devices because the query all doesn't seem to work right and devices disappear from HA. 

The basic configuration doesn't have color change by default. The panels have to be manually modified for each device and color scheme.  Maybe including a default would help.  

Can you update user codes? 

I prefer 

Screenshot_20230222-052135_Home_Assistant.thumb.png.d3404c9d7eafc7c4ddb05c296fc3499c.png

Over thisScreenshot_20230222-052120_UD_Mobile.thumb.png.e2f6c2854126b11287f60368d790a3cf.png

 

In my career I spend a lot of time with understanding the user and designing products for them, so maybe my expectations are different from others.  

DennisC Advanced

DennisC

Posted
Posted

Maybe your expectations are different then mine, and that's fine.

I would never attempt to change user codes remotely and I am not at the site now. I know there is unlock, lock, query, set configuration, and write Changes from the default node.

I have my favorites setup for each location with folders where needed. For example, I have one for lights set up to change colors for on/off and I selected from custom icons for each room or services.

There is a lot of customization available in the wiki.

Mecheng70 Advanced

Mecheng70

Posted
Posted
1 minute ago, DennisC said:

Maybe your expectations are different then mine, and that's fine.

I would never attempt to change user codes remotely and I am not at the site now. I know there is unlock, lock, query, set configuration, and write Changes from the default node.

I have my favorites setup for each location with folders where needed. For example, I have one for lights set up to change colors for on/off and I selected from custom icons for each room or services.

There is a lot of customization available in the wiki.

My situation maybe different.  I run an Airbnb and change the door code based on the last four of their phone number.  Lock configuration is important to me so that my wife can do it without having to access AC.  

DennisC Advanced

DennisC

Posted
Posted
24 minutes ago, Mecheng70 said:

My situation maybe different.  I run an Airbnb and change the door code based on the last four of their phone number.  Lock configuration is important to me so that my wife can do it without having to access AC.  

You are definitely correct, your situation is much different.

I have to admit, it has been a long time since I changed user codes and I don't remember exactly how it's done. But if it was me, I would try to recreate the procedure with Network Resources or a small script which I would run from UD Mobile.

 

shbatm Advanced

shbatm

Posted
Posted
3 hours ago, asbril said:

He for sure deserves "buy me a coffee/beer" . Where can I find that link (for when it works again) ?

Always appreciate the support: https://github.com/sponsors/shbatm or https://www.buymeacoffee.com/shbatm

3 hours ago, Mecheng70 said:

For some reason I thought that the naba casa was $30/mo.  $5/mo isn't so bad.  I'm gonna have to look into it for the Google home integration.

There are some annual plans, maybe that's what you saw. I also pay to support the devs, but as mentioned above, there are a couple options for external access without paying for the HA Cloud service:

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stevehoyt Advanced

stevehoyt

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Posted
On 2/21/2023 at 9:55 AM, asbril said:

My Home Assistant yellow is ordered and has a 6 week wait time

I am jealous..... I ordered mine last Summer and still have not received it. Supposedly it arrives in March .

Looks like good news for you and bad for me. My order just got moved to august 31st. @asbril see below if you did not get a notice. 

 

Backers are at the front of the queue. At this point, we’ve delivered enough units to fulfill all backer orders and >95% of the crowdfunding units have shipped to backers. you are an original crowdfunding backer (ordered before October 27, 2021) and have not received your unit, then your order got stuck for some reason (payment issue, delivery address issue, or similar). In that case, please contact Crowd Supply support if they haven’t already been in touch with you.

We also fulfilled many of the pre-orders placed since October 27, 2021. At this point, there are 1,941 units on the way to Mouser’s warehouse. They are already in the U.S. and are expected to arrive at the warehouse before the end of February.

asbril Advanced

asbril

Posted
Posted
21 minutes ago, stevehoyt said:

Looks like good news for you and bad for me. My order just got moved to august 31st. @asbril see below if you did not get a notice. 

 

Backers are at the front of the queue. At this point, we’ve delivered enough units to fulfill all backer orders and >95% of the crowdfunding units have shipped to backers. you are an original crowdfunding backer (ordered before October 27, 2021) and have not received your unit, then your order got stuck for some reason (payment issue, delivery address issue, or similar). In that case, please contact Crowd Supply support if they haven’t already been in touch with you.

We also fulfilled many of the pre-orders placed since October 27, 2021. At this point, there are 1,941 units on the way to Mouser’s warehouse. They are already in the U.S. and are expected to arrive at the warehouse before the end of February.

Yeah..... Same now 8/31

DaveStLou Advanced

DaveStLou

Posted
Posted
On 2/21/2023 at 11:30 AM, stevehoyt said:

I have decided to embark down the hybrid path of having a Polisy running ISY with various node servers and Home Assistant. My Home Assistant yellow is ordered and has a 6 week wait time. I have started watching HA tutorials in hopes of having a plan setup for when it arrives.

@stevehoyt I have decided to go the hybrid route as well. To supplement my Polisy, I have recently set up an old Raspberry Pi3 with Home Assistant to kick the tires on HA. The memory on the RPi is less than suggested but it has been enough of a success that yesterday I ordered a ODROID-N2+ which is the the system the Home Assistant Yellow runs on as I understand it.

I have several integrations running on Home Assistant currently and have switched over a few from Polisy to HA (like Google Holidays to Google Calendar) but mostly I'm not using their full potential as I'm sorting this out.

asbril Advanced

asbril

Posted
Posted
22 minutes ago, DaveStLou said:

like Google Holidays to Google Calendar

Google Holidays Node Server has a Tomorrow node which I find very useful for programing. I have not found an equivalent in the Google Calendar integration.

stevehoyt Advanced

stevehoyt

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Posted (edited)

@DaveStLou Given my HA Yellow got pushed to late August, I decided to try another approach, so I can kick the tires too. I went with installing a supervised version on windows 11 using the Microsoft Hyper-V. For a novice I was surprised how easy it went. I had it all up and running in a matter of hours and have Pentair and Yolink integrated and a barebones house dashboard built. I am holding off on importing my Polisy ISY Insteon devices for awhile, as I have over 100 and need to get my HA legs first. 

Edited by stevehoyt
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