Geofencing

[sjenkins]

Have 1.0.22 IOS w/ Geofencing.

Started playing with it, read the wiki, and just want to make a few statements I think are true, might save you multiple questions later.  Just to be clear, @Javi can you verify?

This is a parallel system to the Occupancy Node server the Portal provides.

The Idea being that it would replace it (not augment it)

Saying above the Geofences in Occupancy are NOT meant to sync to UD Mobile.

We could delete Occupancy and the Node that comes with it, as well as stop using the additional app, Locative in my case.

With the command we would need to simulate the status node  (if we want that, or could just do direct commands as I see) as no 'status' node is going to be recreated.

This looks like a great idea and initiative (you don't need to verify this.

Edited March 4, 2023 by sjenkins

[Javi]

Hi @sjenkins,

2 hours ago, sjenkins said:

Have 1.0.22 IOS w/ Geofencing.

Started playing with it, read the wiki, and just want to make a few statements I think are true, might save you multiple questions later.  Just to be clear, @Javi can you verify?

This is a parallel system to the Occupancy Node server the Portal provides.

The Idea being that it would replace it (not augment it)

Saying above the Geofences in Occupancy are NOT meant to sync to UD Mobile.

We could delete Occupancy and the Node that comes with it, as well as stop using the additional app, Locative in my case.

Yes, UD Mobile's Geofencing will issue direct commands to the System without needing to setup the Occupancy Node Server.  I think the main reason the Occupancy Node Server was created was to work around Authentication, such as storing your Portal credentials in plain text in a Geofencing app.   UD Mobile uses oAuth and does not store your Portal Credentials, so the app should  refresh auth tokens if needed before sending the specified commands.  The app will also send commands to local connections if they are available.

As for deleting your other geofences, I would wait until we are confident UD Mobile's geofences are as accurate as the other applications. I would be great for testers to compare UD Mobile against their existing solution to verify UD Mobile works as intended. 

2 hours ago, sjenkins said:

With the command we would need to simulate the status node  (if we want that, or could just do direct commands as I see) as no 'status' node is going to be recreated.

This looks like a great idea and initiative (you don't need to verify this.

 Yes,  if you want status this would require setting a system variable. If you do not need status, then UD Mobile can issue direct commands to a device, variable, network-resource and/or program.  Similar to Favorite Commands, UD Mobile's Geofence Enter/Exit actions can execute multiple commands.

While I don't have plans to create a Node Server for Geofencing due to time constraints, I can foresee someone creating a Node Server which handles the complex logic for things like multiple users at a single location which can be triggered by UD Mobile.  UD Mobile's backup, which includes geofence data, was built to handle multiple users who have different  geofence commands enabled as long as the geofence names are different.  Upon backup import the app should keep existing geofences enabled, so when importing onto another family member's device only previously enabled geofences should remain enabled even if these settings were different on the device which exported the backup.

[sjenkins]

@Javi

Thank you so much for the clarifications and of course the great work on the app.

I do think a node server will not be necessary as you can make a status variable which collates the individual family members statuses. 

I have repurposed my notifications arriving/leaving from the Occupancy and made status state variables for each family member with associated programs.  Mind numbing programming but not difficult.

I do have one bug report.  Which kept happening & now I cannot replicate so ignore until someone else comes up with it too.  When I started adding my first geofence & changed the name, enabled it & saved a command ; this ended up with 4 geofences with names(1,2,3,4).  Again now that I am established I cannot seem to replicate so just keep it in mind if another sees it.

thanks again, you are really developing an all inclusive app.

 

[carealtor]

Are there instructions somewhere for setting up Geofencing on UD Mobile?  I'm on Android, so maybe this isn't possible.

[tlightne]

@carealtor I believe it is only available for Apple at this time..

 

[Geddy]

@carealtor only iOS so far….

Wiki Instructions: https://wiki.universal-devices.com/index.php?title=UD_Mobile#Geofencing

 

[Javi]

3 hours ago, sjenkins said:

I do have one bug report.  Which kept happening & now I cannot replicate so ignore until someone else comes up with it too.  When I started adding my first geofence & changed the name, enabled it & saved a command ; this ended up with 4 geofences with names(1,2,3,4).  Again now that I am established I cannot seem to replicate so just keep it in mind if another sees it.

Thanks.  I seen this once during development but could not replicate. If I recall correctly my test was similar to yours where after it happen once then not happen again.  I'll check from a fresh install on Monday.

[Geddy]

3 hours ago, Javi said:

If I recall correctly my test was similar to yours where after it happen once then not happen again. 

@Javi @sjenkins I had the same issue on initial install and setup. It was happening if I changed the distance. It didn't seem to happen after first setup. I ended up with 3 areas. I deleted all three and setup again and did not have the same issue, but I also didn't change the distance more than once as I knew the size I was going for. 

What seemed odd was that when I created the geofence (even though I was inside of it) the status appeared to show me outside the area. I wasn't going out again after setting it up, but did today and it now shows correct status for inside and outside zone. 

I haven't attempted any further control or programs yet. Will test later today or tomorrow.

Excited that this won't need Occupancy. I currently use Mobilinc with ISY Portal and eisy and haven't had any issues with geofence. I have been looking forward to having this function available in UD Mobile. Nice job!

 

[Javi]

Thanks @Geddy, I will try to replicate.

[apostolakisl]

I have been pulling my hair out with geofencing.  I am on Android.  I take it that UD Mobile on IOS has native geofencing . . .yes?  Will this be on Android soon?  I have been using the antiquated UDI Mobile with a frustrating level of works almost all the time, which is just good enough for me to keep using it but get super annoyed when it fails.

[Javi]

Hi @apostolakisl, 

It is only on iOS currently but will be the next on our feature implementation on Android.  With that said, Geofencing on Android is very dependent on the MFG and battery conservation settings and may not work well for all users. 

Geofence regions on Android need large minimum areas to be accurate. Somewhere between 200-1000 meters which is greater than the minimum area most people want.  The lower end requires that your device is already requesting location updates (i.e. navigation) or the app is requesting location updates frequently (similar to having navigation running). 

[hart2hart]

Javi, have you considered implementing presence using Bluetooth beacons? I implemented them with MobiLinc before moving to UD Mobile. Once power and interval settings were fine tuned they let me pick room I was located in for control.

[Javi]

9 minutes ago, hart2hart said:

Javi, have you considered implementing presence using Bluetooth beacons? I implemented them with MobiLinc before moving to UD Mobile. Once power and interval settings were fine tuned they let me pick room I was located in for control.

Maybe after some other higher priority items.  I've played with these in the past with mixed results and all the beacons untimely ended up in a box somewhere due to the inconsistencies.  

[Javi]

On 3/4/2023 at 12:24 PM, Geddy said:

What seemed odd was that when I created the geofence (even though I was inside of it) the status appeared to show me outside the area. I wasn't going out again after setting it up, but did today and it now shows correct status for inside and outside zone. 

Thanks @Geddy removed status until geofence is crossed.

Duplication of geofence when editing region fixed in next update.

[Geddy]

1 hour ago, Javi said:

Geofence regions on Android need large minimum areas to be accurate. Somewhere between 200-1000 meters which is greater than the minimum area most people want. 

WOW! People use some close/small zones. I found about 1000-1500 meters to be ideal for my situation. But I just used geofence for lights. I guess some use it to open garages and unlock doors (too unsecure for my liking!).

It also doesn't seem to be a battery drain by having larger areas (<1% in last 24 hours in background use). 

 

[Javi]

14 minutes ago, Geddy said:

WOW! People use some close/small zones. I found about 1000-1500 meters to be ideal for my situation. But I just used geofence for lights. I guess some use it to open garages and unlock doors (too unsecure for my liking!).

I think this is the biggest issue, users try to use this to determine when they are at a location instead of in the neighborhood. 

25 minutes ago, Geddy said:

It also doesn't seem to be a battery drain by having larger areas (<1% in last 24 hours in background use). 

 

The battery comment was regarding Android which has individual settings for global an app battery usage.  Global settings may prevent location triggers, app settings will prevent network communication even if triggered.  So many permissions and settings need to be changed on android and some MFG may not honor the OS level settings.

 

[hart2hart]

Maybe after some other higher priority items.  I've played with these in the past with mixed results and all the beacons untimely ended up in a box somewhere due to the inconsistencies.  

Thanks. Love what you’re doing with app. Look forward to seeing it sometime in the future.

[brians]

I set it up on iOS and make a couple programs to notify me when I leave and when I arrive at home. Seems to work but sometimes I get more than one notification. I have the zone set to default 200m.

It is neat, but not really sure what I would use this for.

 

[Javi]

14 hours ago, brians said:

It is neat, but not really sure what I would use this for.

 

I think the use case is very dependent on your connected equipment and number/age of occupants at a location. 

If occupancy is already established by a security system this could trigger notification if a program determines all occupants have left the neighborhood and the system is not armed. 

For users without another occupancy trigger this could be used to turn off/lower energy consuming appliances such a lights, thermostats, and water features or verify entry points such as garage doors are closed.

[peterathans]

This is exactly the feature I've been waiting for, and is the only reason I'm still running MobiLinc in parallel with UD Mobile (MobiLinc has geofence support).  As soon as I update to the new version, I'll set up some test cases.

My wife and I use it to activate outside lights if we arrive home after dark.

[brians]

1 hour ago, peterathans said:

 

My wife and I use it to activate outside lights if we arrive home after dark.

Actually that is a good idea. Not sure how to add multiple users though, @Javiis there support for multiple accounts on UD Mobile? I think I sorta asked this for different reason a while back. I don't want other users to have access to everything in UD Mobile, just favorites.

 

[Javi]

38 minutes ago, brians said:

Actually that is a good idea. Not sure how to add multiple users though, @Javiis there support for multiple accounts on UD Mobile? I think I sorta asked this for different reason a while back. I don't want other users to have access to everything in UD Mobile, just favorites.

 

While UDM supports multiple accounts it (currently) does not have a way for Admins to change/restrict settings on a remote device. 

I you have access to the device you can hide the system on the Home Tab along with hiding any commands in the Node's Dashboard then Lock Edits. Locking Edits will (1) prevent selection of items on the top bar in any screen and  (2) prevent anything on the Admin and Settings Tabs from being selected, with the exception of entering a pin to unlock.   Now the user will only have access to favorites unless they have the pin.

With regards to geofencing it should keep any regions enabled which were previously enabled.

https://wiki.universal-devices.com/index.php?title=UD_Mobile#Backups

[peterathans]

Curious about the comment "Not sure how to add multiple users though" - with MobiLinc, the apps on the two phones (mine and my wife's) are each independent instances and are each programmed to set/reset a different state variable within IoX.

Will this not be possible with UD Mobile?  Does it somehow want to keep multiple versions across different devices in sync?

[Javi]

1 hour ago, peterathans said:

Will this not be possible with UD Mobile?  Does it somehow want to keep multiple versions across different devices in sync?

This is possible, although the app will attempt to save all geofences in a disableds state.

The app will save any geofences created but will be disabled if a backup is installed on another device, unless the device importing the backup has a geofence of the same name already enabled.  If geofences exist on the imported device which are not in the backup file they will be recreated automatically.

So, If you are administering the app and creating backups to import on another device (i.e. wife's phone) create both geofences before exporting the backup.  When the backup is imported enable the desired geofences on the imported device.  The next time you import to the other device (i.e. wife's phone) the previously enabled geofences will remain enabled even if the enabled status was different on the device exporting the backup file.

[peterathans]

And if I don't import backups?  Can't I just create a geofence from scratch on the second phone, and a few simple controls on the Favorites screen?  Are backup imports necessary for the second phone?

Ideal scenario:

• Install UD Mobile on two phones
• On each phone, create a geofence (with each one controlling a separate variable)
• On each phone, create a unique set of controls on the Favorites screen (the two users may want different sets of controls)

Sounds simple (and it's how I set up MobiLinc on our two phones), is it possible?