Pushover vs UD mbile and substitution varlabiel

[Jimini]

I like many have been forced to abandon notifications via text messages, expecially Verizon's since they no longer work reliably.  I have found several threads dealing with this but I have not found any which are not archived and closed. Therefore, I can pose any. new questions to these threads.  Thererore, I am posing my questoins on a new one. 

First, it appears that the favorite alternativie to text messages is Pushover.  But another is UD Mobile.  Would any have comments about which one of these two would be better?

Second, I have been able to create simple messages with Pushover.  I have not found any explanation of how to add variable substitutions to a Pushoveer. message. Has anyone found a way to add these

 

 

[TRI0N]

3 hours ago, Jimini said:

I like many have been forced to abandon notifications via text messages, expecially Verizon's since they no longer work reliably.  I have found several threads dealing with this but I have not found any which are not archived and closed. Therefore, I can pose any. new questions to these threads.  Thererore, I am posing my questoins on a new one. 

First, it appears that the favorite alternativie to text messages is Pushover.  But another is UD Mobile.  Would any have comments about which one of these two would be better?

Second, I have been able to create simple messages with Pushover.  I have not found any explanation of how to add variable substitutions to a Pushoveer. message. Has anyone found a way to add these

 

 

Just out of curiosity, you are saying that you are having trouble sending SMS Text? Can you elaborate on that? Most problems I've seen recently when sending to 10Digit@vtext.com. Most of these services now require 11Digit@vtext.com. Verizon is one of them. 

Also another alternatives would be to setup an email account with notifications turned on.


TRI0N

Edited April 4, 2023 by TRI0N

[dbwarner5]

9 hours ago, Jimini said:

I like many have been forced to abandon notifications via text messages, expecially Verizon's since they no longer work reliably.  I have found several threads dealing with this but I have not found any which are not archived and closed. Therefore, I can pose any. new questions to these threads.  Thererore, I am posing my questoins on a new one. 

First, it appears that the favorite alternativie to text messages is Pushover.  But another is UD Mobile.  Would any have comments about which one of these two would be better?

Second, I have been able to create simple messages with Pushover.  I have not found any explanation of how to add variable substitutions to a Pushoveer. message. Has anyone found a way to add these

 

 

Have you looked at the Notification Node server?  I use it to successfully send variables. Here is the link to the readme on the NS. if you scroll down, it gives multiple examples. https://github.com/UniversalDevicesInc-PG3/udi-poly-notification/blob/master/README.md

[MrBill]

10 hours ago, Jimini said:

First, it appears that the favorite alternativie to text messages is Pushover.  But another is UD Mobile.  Would any have comments about which one of these two would be better?

Second, I have been able to create simple messages with Pushover.  I have not found any explanation of how to add variable substitutions to a Pushoveer. message. Has anyone found a way to add these

Pushover has more posts on the topic because it existed long before UD Mobile had the ability to send push notifications.  Either are probably a fine choice... Pushover and its methods are known to be stable over a long time, but at the same time no one is complaining about Push notification in UD mobile... so pick whichever you'd prefer.

There are 3 methods to get messages to pushover:

1. ISY direct to Pushover server
2. ISY to Notification node server to Pushover server
3. ISY to Push node server to Pushover server

#2 is by far the best choice.  #1 doesn't retry if there's an error. #3 the developer doesn't appear to be working on the node server anymore.

To add subsitiuaiton variables see this page: https://wiki.universal-devices.com/index.php?title=ISY-994i_Series:EMail_and_Networking_Substitution_Variables

there are a few more that aren't documented anywhere.  If you navigate to in the admin console to Configuration > Emails and Notifications > Customizations and build a template there... the dropdowns will allow you to add a few things not documented on the wiki page....  You can copy and paste those items into your Pushover (or UD mobile notifications)

Personally I use Pushover, and will likely continue to as I have a few other devices such as Home Assistant, my ubiquiti router, etc that also use pushover to send messages.

 

[MrBill]

7 hours ago, TRI0N said:

Just out of curiosity, you are saying that you are having trouble sending SMS Text? Can you elaborate on that? Most problems I've seen recently when sending to 10Digit@vtext.com. Most of these services now require 11Digit@vtext.com. Verizon is one of them. 

Also another alternatives would be to setup an email account with notifications turned on.

If vtext.com or vzwpix.com work reliably for you that's amazing.   Both at&t and verizon can have horrible delays (and lost messages). this is documented in literally 100's of this forums threads from the past.

I did note that you said "Most problems I've seen recently when sending to 10Digit@vtext.com. Most of these services now require 11Digit@vtext.com. Verizon is one of them." so as a test i just emailed myself two messages one to 10Digit@vtext.com and one to 11Digit@vtext.com.   the 10 digit test came through in about 90 seconds, 10 minutes after that I still haven't received the 11Digit@vtext.com test.   In addition every Verizon page help page that I can find still says 10 digit including this one: https://www.verizon.com/support/text-messaging-faqs/

for the record:

• the Verizon MMS gateway ( 10dig@vzwpix.xom) usually works better, even for all text messages.  Additionally the messages aren't truncated into multiple 160 char segments like vtext.com
• verizon text delayes can be anywhere from a few second to many hours to never.
• Pushover notifications are always less than 5 seconds and usually more like 1/2 a second to delivery.

 

[TRI0N]

3 hours ago, MrBill said:

If vtext.com or vzwpix.com work reliably for you that's amazing.   Both at&t and verizon can have horrible delays (and lost messages). this is documented in literally 100's of this forums threads from the past.

I did note that you said "Most problems I've seen recently when sending to 10Digit@vtext.com. Most of these services now require 11Digit@vtext.com. Verizon is one of them." so as a test i just emailed myself two messages one to 10Digit@vtext.com and one to 11Digit@vtext.com.   the 10 digit test came through in about 90 seconds, 10 minutes after that I still haven't received the 11Digit@vtext.com test.   In addition every Verizon page help page that I can find still says 10 digit including this one: https://www.verizon.com/support/text-messaging-faqs/

for the record:

• the Verizon MMS gateway ( 10dig@vzwpix.xom) usually works better, even for all text messages.  Additionally the messages aren't truncated into multiple 160 char segments like vtext.com
• verizon text delayes can be anywhere from a few second to many hours to never.
• Pushover notifications are always less than 5 seconds and usually more like 1/2 a second to delivery.

 

Their person to person tech support has been recommending 11 digits for about a year now. It's even documented online by others that have contacted them and were told to use 11 digits. We are running out of numbers per area code. Plus all the new National Hotlines and burner numbers that take 18 months to roll back to available.  In some metropolitans you literally have to put in 11 digits just to call across the street. 

TRI0N

Edited April 4, 2023 by TRI0N

[Geddy]

15 minutes ago, TRI0N said:

In some metropolitans you literally have to put in 11 digits just to call across the street. 

I don't want to argue the point, but I'd like to know where this happens. I live in Atlanta (once, if not still, the largest local calling area in the nation) I don't have to use 11 digits. I have family in LA, they don't have to dial 11 digits. I have friends in NYC and they don't have to dial 11 digits. So if some of the most populated areas and largest local calling areas don't then what "metropolitan" area has to dial 11 digits to "call across the street"? Do you have first had experience of such or just read some random blog that might have inferred that?

[MrBill]

10 minutes ago, TRI0N said:

Their person to person tech support has been recommending 11 digits for about a year now. It's even documented online by others that have contacted them and were told to use 11 digits. We are running out of numbers per area code. Plus all the new National Hotlines and burner numbers that take 18 months to roll back to available.  In some metropolitans you literally have to put in 11 digits just to call across the street.

Adding the 11 digit ... "1", the country code USA, as a prefix when dialing a phone number or storing a contact does not add any numbers to the number pool.  10 Digit dialing is roughly equivalent to 11 digit dialing when making a phone call within the US.  I routinely save all my contacts actually as +1xxxyyyzzzz meaning 11 digit preferenced with a +. that means when I'm connected to the cellular system in another country all of my contacts will work correctly without modification, when dialing from the foreign country.

The SMS and MMS text gateway by email... i.e. @vtext.com and @vzxpic.com are an entirely different routing system.  I can't get 11dig@ either to send a message to my phone.... 10dig@vtext.com and 10dig@vzwpic.com seem pretty fast today 60-90 seconds but I've personally encountered HOURs of delay...  I turned on my ISY test program again.. it sends 4 randomly timed text messages per day with a timestamp when sent.  

[TRI0N]

30 minutes ago, Geddy said:

I don't want to argue the point, but I'd like to know where this happens. I live in Atlanta (once, if not still, the largest local calling area in the nation) I don't have to use 11 digits. I have family in LA, they don't have to dial 11 digits. I have friends in NYC and they don't have to dial 11 digits. So if some of the most populated areas and largest local calling areas don't then what "metropolitan" area has to dial 11 digits to "call across the street"? Do you have first had experience of such or just read some random blog that might have inferred that?

This is from the North American Numbering Plan (NANP) wiki. A bit outdated since these problems now are more occurring. 

"GROWTH PROBLEMS:

Depending on the techniques used for area code and central office code relief, the effect on telephone users varies. In areas in which overlays were used, this generally avoids the need for converting telephone numbers, so existing directories, business records, letterheads, business cards, advertising, and "speed-dialing" settings can retain the same phone numbers, while the overlay is used for new number allocations. The primary effect on telephone users is the necessity of remembering and dialing 10- or 11-digit numbers when only 7-digit dialing was previously permissible."

Furthermore here is Verizon themselves enforcing the 11 digit number in NYC that started in 2003.

https://www.verizon.com/about/news/press-releases/dialing-11-digits-starts-saturday-new-yorkers

PS: During my time working for the NRC at Diablo Canyon. They had our own Verizon Tower and everything was Verizon 3G/4G.  I worked closely with Verizon Tech and that is where I learned that the 11 Digit Enforcement was being slowly put into effect. Pagers, phones, routers, etc. all had to use 11 Digit Dialing even if the person was standing right next to you. 

So I don't use numbers for automation unless they are 11 digits to make sure they reach their destination. There is no down side to using 11 digits. So I'm not sure what all the fuss is about.


TRI0N

Edited April 4, 2023 by TRI0N

[MrBill]

To put this thread back on topic tho... it appears that calling and the SMS/MMS email gateway operate differently than dialing voice calls.   SMS/MMS emails must still be emailed to 10dig@ and not 11dig@.  11digit flat doesn't get thru the Verizons SMS/MMS email gateway.

[Geddy]

Sorry to take the topic off topic so much, but just had to. The claims were absurd. Back to point of OP using better methods of getting alerts.

I think @MrBill's post above with the link to the variables is very helpful. 

@Jimini I think you could try both options to get a feel for how both work. I believe Pushover allows a trial period and then just a one time purchase for $5 and think that would cover any other devices you own and any in a "family" plan on Apple (not sure how Android does family/share purchases). 

@Jimini What Phone OS are you using?

[MrBill]

@Geddy@Jimini

Pushover has been around for years.  Geddy's correct, one time 4.95 charge.  Family Sharing applies to the iPhone Family plus anyone else that downloads the app and logs into your pushover account will get there app set to subscribed as well.... or at least it did before family sharing...  One time 5bucks is nothing... I feel like I need to send them more because  the value far exceeds my $5 investment years ago.

Pushover's API probably offers more than new to the playing field UD Mobile.  Disclaimer: I haven't used UD Mobil notifications, and don't know exactly what can and can't be done at the point. 

with pushover the sender can change the messages priority. Pushover was approved by Apple for "Critical Notifications", which means Pushover can send messages that bypass the DND switch on the phone and any Focus group enabled.  Critical Alerts (Priority 1) will always be delivered reguardless of the DND switch and Focus Groups.  (There is an extra switch in iPhone Settings that must be turned on.)

Additionally the pushover api can adjust Notification Sound, and message styling via HTML... likewise the ISY can generate any message.  

I actually use alot of that... frogs, ducks, a ships horn (very attention getting), critical alerts HTML for message color coding etc...

[mwester]

3 hours ago, Geddy said:

I don't want to argue the point, but I'd like to know where this happens. I live in Atlanta (once, if not still, the largest local calling area in the nation) I don't have to use 11 digits. I have family in LA, they don't have to dial 11 digits. I have friends in NYC and they don't have to dial 11 digits. So if some of the most populated areas and largest local calling areas don't then what "metropolitan" area has to dial 11 digits to "call across the street"? Do you have first had experience of such or just read some random blog that might have inferred that?

Central Wisconsin, in the 608 area code, for one.  That change was made a couple years ago.

So much dismissal of other's experiences on this forum lately...  it's depressing.

[mwester]

2 hours ago, Geddy said:

Sorry to take the topic off topic so much, but just had to. The claims were absurd.

No, you're not sorry.  You're just being argumentative.  Let people work the issues and share their opinions and experiences - there's really no need to quibble and argue each and every single point, like you're a lawyer on some legal case!  This is a forum, not a courtroom.

[Jimini]

Wow.  My questions opened up much discussion and a few tangents. I appreciate the side tracks as well 

To answer a few questions that were asked of me.  I use Apple phones and Apple computers.  This started over 30 years ago when I couldn't get my young son to touch the PC I bought, but as soon as I purchased a Mac on the suggestion of a friend, I could only use it after my son had gone to bed.  And then became locked into the Apple universe. But that's my own digression.  

I had my own on-again, off-again difficulty with the @vtext messages for more than a year.  Lately it as been completely on-again, i.e. no messages get through.  

If Mr Bills suggested link provides a way to include variable values in my Pushover notifications, it will satisfy my needs.  My concern about UD Mobile is that references in the UD email & notification Wiki said that it was still in a sort of a prototype status.  

I do have one more question.  I got the impression from that same Wiki that MobiLinc is required for Pushover, so I switched my module makup from including ISY Portal to including MogiLinc.  In a UD Ticket with Michel, he commented that he didn't think MobiLinc would be required for Pushover.  Does anyone think I really needed MobiLinc  instead of ISY Portal for Pushover?  I'm not sure if I lost any functionality by making that switch.  

Thanks for all the suggestions and discussion.

[asbril]

13 minutes ago, Jimini said:

 Does anyone think I really needed MobiLinc  instead of ISY Portal for Pushover?

No.

[DennisC]

8 hours ago, Jimini said:

 

If Mr Bills suggested link provides a way to include variable values in my Pushover notifications, it will satisfy my needs.  My concern about UD Mobile is that references in the UD email & notification Wiki said that it was still in a sort of a prototype status.  

I do have one more question.  I got the impression from that same Wiki that MobiLinc is required for Pushover, so I switched my module makup from including ISY Portal to including MogiLinc.  In a UD Ticket with Michel, he commented that he didn't think MobiLinc would be required for Pushover.  Does anyone think I really needed MobiLinc  instead of ISY Portal for Pushover?  I'm not sure if I lost any functionality by making that switch.  

Thanks for all the suggestions and discussion.

Yes, variable substitution works fine.

UD Mobile notifications work just fine and I haven't missed one.

Pushover will work with UD Portal. Consider adding the Notification node server which allows you to use Pushover. It makes things very easy and opens a lot of possibilities.

[MrBill]

@Jimini

The portal or mobilinc connect have nothing to do with using Pushover.  You can use Pushover with either or neither.

 

[Javi]

18 hours ago, Jimini said:

If Mr Bills suggested link provides a way to include variable values in my Pushover notifications, it will satisfy my needs.  My concern about UD Mobile is that references in the UD email & notification Wiki said that it was still in a sort of a prototype status.  

I'm the frontend developer for UD Mobile so I can say with confidence that UDM Notification delivery is stable in production.  As of this week UDM Notifications now include notifications about Portal Service interruptions and system connection status.

Notification Creation is stable using Network Resources (the only option if you have ISY994). For eisy and Polisy you can use the Notification Node Server.  The Node Server route makes things easier for users to configure but does not render the Network Resource option obsolete. The Notification Node Server uses the same APIs as the Network Resource Example.

See this topic for an example of setup: 

 

[Jimini]

Thank you again for all the information and suggestions.  

It is clear now that I had no need to replace the ISY-Portal with the MobiLinc portal.  Further, if I want to try the UD-Mobile, I think now I need to have the ISY-Portal.  I will try to switch back to ISY-Portal both to consider UD-Mobile but also because I don’t know what other functionality I may have lost when I switched to MibiLinc.  

Thank you, Javi, for clarifying my misconception of the sautés of UD-Mobile.  I have tried to run the U-Tube video that you pointed to for instructions on UD-Mobile setup, but the volume is so low that I can’t hear the verbal instructions.  I have the volume of the vide and the volume of my computer at maximum.  I can’t find any other volume control to turn up.  

Regarding the substitution of variable values with Pushover, I have looked a few times, based on several recommendations, at the Wiki for EMail and Networking Substitution Variables.  This covers the form of inserting variable values with the essentially escape character “$” and variable id.  I’ve tried inserting that in the network resources definition of a notification but it is basically ignored.  The body of the resource definition for Pushover contains  the name of each parameter prior to the parameter such as “title=“ or “message=“.  It would seem that a similar parameter name must proceed the insertion of a variable to be substituted, but I don’t see any parameter in the Pushover description that would fit this use.  I apparently still missing something to add.

[Javi]

49 minutes ago, Jimini said:

Thank you, Javi, for clarifying my misconception of the sautés of UD-Mobile.  I have tried to run the U-Tube video that you pointed to for instructions on UD-Mobile setup, but the volume is so low that I can’t hear the verbal instructions.  I have the volume of the vide and the volume of my computer at maximum.  I can’t find any other volume control to turn up.  

Hi @Jimini,

Uploaded video with improved audio.  It may be a hour before it is live.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9w-_8AZy4iQ

[MrBill]

1 hour ago, Jimini said:

 This covers the form of inserting variable values with the essentially escape character “$” and variable id.  I’ve tried inserting that in the network resources definition of a notification but it is basically ignored.

Are you including the curley brackets?  They do need inclusion.

so,

${var.1.1} is the first Integer variable or ID 1
${var.1.12} is the 12th Integer variable or ID 12

${var.2.1} is the first State variable or ID 1
${var.2.12} is the 12th State variable or ID 12

I just noticed on the wiki page it also says that ${<variable name>} works for EMAIL subsitiution, it may or may not work for network resources, I've never actually used it.

but again the curley brackets would be required.  ${name}   but proably not the <> shown in the example.

[MrBill]

There are also several reasons to use the notification nodeserver over straight Network Resources to send Pushover messages.  The most important of which is Retries.  The ISY/IoX attempts to send a Network Resource only ONCE , if it fails to send there are no retries, instead you'll just see the failure as a line item in the ISY/IoX error log.  The notification node server will retry in most cases (the exception is certain internet Return codes that indicate permanent failure.  The most common for me is hung connection with no return code,  (In other words, the equivalent of entering the URL in a browser and the connection just spins without making a connection thus no return code) the notification node server will retry. 

Before the notification node server I would lose about one message a month due to the Network Resources failing to send via the internet, now that NR is only sent locally and the node server will retry there's much less chance of missed message.

[MrBill]

On 4/4/2023 at 2:31 AM, TRI0N said:

Just out of curiosity, you are saying that you are having trouble sending SMS Text? Can you elaborate on that? Most problems I've seen recently when sending to 10Digit@vtext.com. Most of these services now require 11Digit@vtext.com. Verizon is one of them. 

Also another alternatives would be to setup an email account with notifications turned on.

Just to update... the email to SMS/MMS gateway at Verizon is definitly NOT configured to accept 11 digit phone numbers.

The other day when I was testing, all of the 11dig@vtext.com messages bounced in email, and went to my Junk folder...

Bottom line... you can't email 11dig@vtext.com, the email will bounce.