How do I load up Alexa with EISY devices, programs, scenes, variables?

[baabm]

Background: I just updated from a 994 running v4.9 to EISY running v5.3.4. On the 994, I used mobilnc as my iPhone interface program and it in turn interfaced with Alexa. The way this worked (I think) was, you entered your spoken into the 994, then mobilinc scanned the spokens and made then available to Alexa when you DISCOVERED devices on Alexa, it found all the devices, scenes, programs, etc. This was very easy to use.

Since EISY doesn't support Mobilinc, I found the following on the wiki:

1. Make sure you have followed all the steps in ISY Portal Installed and Configured first.
2. Log into ISY Portal
3. Click on My Profile at the top right corner, choose your ISY from Preferred ISY drop down
4. Under Select Tool, choose Connectivity | Amazon Echo
5. Click on Add Device, Scene, Program, Variable or A/V to add a new Alexa device
6. Choose your ISY device/scene/program/state variable
7. Enter a Spoken (This is the name Alexa will use to recognize this device), then save. NOTE : Rooms are optional and useful only for categorization in ISY Portal

 So in a system with about 100 programs, and about 100 devices and about 40 scenes, and 50 variables, I'd have to (worst case) define almost 300 items individually. Tell me that I am misunderstanding how this works.

Or is there a better way to do this.

Thanks,

Bob

[Geddy]

1 hour ago, baabm said:

Tell me that I am misunderstanding how this works.

Or is there a better way to do this.

Help us understand something before you get further into this...do you mean you used Mobilinc with their Mobilinc Portal?

If that's the case then you're going to have to setup UD Portal as though it's the first time. There's no "migration" from one portal to the other as they've always been mutually exclusive.

Now, if you had UD Portal setup and were just running Mobilinc (the app) and connecting via UD Portal you've got options (perhaps). But I don't think this is how you had it setup.

I don't know how Mobilinc's portal worked, but I've always used Mobilinc (Pro) with UD Portal and it still works with eisy as it always did with my ISY994. You might be able to still use the Mobilinc app (perhaps...I'm not sure if their MoblincX app works as I was happy with the Pro).

Lastly, it looks like you are referencing this area of the wiki:

https://wiki.universal-devices.com/index.php?title=ISY_Portal_Amazon_Echo_Integration_V3

If so that's the correct method to setup UD Portal and Alexa Integration.

 

PS: Please be sure to update the eisy to the current IoX and PG3x versions. You reference eisy running 5.3.4, but that was never a version for the eisy. 

Current versions can be found here: https://forum.universal-devices.com/forum/339-current-release-announcements/

 

[baabm]

I am on 5.6.4 ( I misremembered).

I was using mobilinc connect not UD portal.

Thanks for your answer.

[Geddy]

7 minutes ago, baabm said:

I was using mobilinc connect not UD portal.

Yeah...don't think there's a way to "move"/migrate from one portal to another. They've always been different animals. 

You could open a support ticket to ask just to check, but I'm afraid it's more than likely not possible.

 

[baabm]

“Now, if you had UD Portal setup and were just running Mobilinc (the app) and connecting via UD Portal you've got options (perhaps). But I don't think this is how you had it setup.

I don't know how Mobilinc's portal worked, but I've always used Mobilinc (Pro) with UD Portal and it still works with eisy as it always did with my ISY994. You might be able to still use the Mobilinc app (perhaps...I'm not sure if their MoblincX app works as I was happy with the Pro).”

I was using Orchestrated Mobilinc. And I would like to continue to use it. I am having trouble setting up the configuration page to get it to work. I’ve emailed Wes at Mobilinc but he hasn’t given me easily understood directions. Can you help?

[Geddy]

13 hours ago, baabm said:

I was using Orchestrated Mobilinc

I’m not sure the setup of that version of the app, but review these instructions in the UDI wiki to see if you can get it to connect once you have UD Portal setup and connected to the eisy.

https://wiki.universal-devices.com/index.php?title=ISY_Portal_MobiLinc_Configuration

Just note that you will only need to set the Secure HTTPS as “my.isy.io”, port 443, and use your portal credentials….leave local settings empty. 
 

 

[baabm]

I am trying to follow these instructions.

• Login to https://my.isy.io , click on My Profile (top right) and make sure My Preferred ISY points to your ISY
• I have 2 ISYs listed but only 1 is plugged in and working, and this one has a green dot next to it. I also have the 30 day trial period in place.
• Open MobiLinc and go to My Settings->Lighting Controller Settings

1. Set Host Type to ISY
2. it is
3. Set Username and Password to the email address and password with which you are registered in ISY Portal
4. I did a copy/paste from my log in to the portal
5. Set Local - http:// to blank
6. it is
7. Set Local port Leave as is
8. it is
9. Set Secure - https:// my.isy.io
10. it is
11. Set Secure Port to 443
12. it is
13. Tap sync with ISY in the controller page
14. I get a network error "There was a problem sending the request. Please verify the connection settings in my settings and try again. Error code:401. Error Message: Authentication  needed.

Note that I saw somewhere that I need to "deactivate Mobilinc portal" and do that via the manage modules option in Admin console. But when I select manage modules, it only comes back with a statement that all my modules are up to date - there is no identification of what modules I have nor a way to enable or disable any modules. So I am at a loss for how to proceed.

 

[Geddy]

3 hours ago, baabm said:

Note that I saw somewhere that I need to "deactivate Mobilinc portal" and do that via the manage modules option in Admin console. But when I select manage modules, it only comes back with a statement that all my modules are up to date - there is no identification of what modules I have nor a way to enable or disable any modules.

@baabm I’m not sure what to suggest. The steps look fine. But if you haven’t canceled Mobilinc Connect then you need to do that and only use UD portal to access the ISY service. I’m also not familiar with that version of Mobilinc so it might have other issues. 
 

Have you reviewed these steps?

https://wiki.universal-devices.com/index.php?title=ISY_Portal_Installation_Instructions

You need to confirm on the ISY admin console that it is registered with UD Portal. That is in the Configuration tab then Portals. But you said it’s green on the web interface for the UD Portal so should be okay. 

[baabm]

Geddy,

Thanks for all the help, I am not getting much support from the mobilinc team. Here is where I am at:

1) you asked:

On 8/25/2023 at 9:31 PM, baabm said:

Now, if you had UD Portal setup and were just running Mobilinc (the app) and connecting via UD Portal you've got options (perhaps). But I don't think this is how you had it setup.

The answer is I was using the mobilinc portal with mobilinc on the 994.

 

On 8/26/2023 at 11:06 AM, Geddy said:

I’m not sure the setup of that version of the app, but review these instructions in the UDI wiki to see if you can get it to connect once you have UD Portal setup and connected to the eisy.

I went into UD portal and again verified that the EISY has a green dot next to it, and that it is now the "preferred device", and in the admin console, the UD portal is connected. I do not know what else is involved in ensuring that the UD portal is setup correctly.

Since I last wrote, I decided to uninstall Orchestrated mobilnc. I was going to re-install it, but it's not in the app store anymore, so I bought mobilinc pro and downloaded it. I tried several times using the ISY portal connection and the mobilinc portal connection (which I could never get past the initial page where I was trying to associate my new EISY serial number, but it never worked). 

Finally, I decided to go back to the ISY portal on mobilinc pro and re-enter everything, and all of sudden, it synced.

Thank you!!!

So now I have a few questions:

1) are there any limitations on the EISY side because I am using mobilinc? ie, can i use some of the other portals and polyglot (not that I know how to use them, just want to know if I can). 

2) Is there anything else I should be aware of using this configuration?

Thanks again.

[DennisC]

Have you considered moving to UD portal and UD Mobile? You would much less problems.

UD Mobile is actively being supported and we get excellent support from the developer. It is also quick and very customizable.

[Geddy]

On 8/29/2023 at 1:13 PM, baabm said:

mobilinc portal connection

This doesn't work with the eisy. You can only use the UD Portal option to connect Mobilinc to the eisy.

On 8/29/2023 at 1:13 PM, baabm said:

I bought mobilinc pro and downloaded it

Should have thought of something else before doing this. UD Mobile is currently supported by UDI and actively developed to work with Polisy/eisy while Moblinc Pro hasn't been updated for several years. If you're going to learn a new system you should have read a little more before buying the Mobilinc Pro.

On 8/29/2023 at 1:13 PM, baabm said:

I decided to go back to the ISY portal on mobilinc pro and re-enter everything, and all of sudden, it synced.

Glad you got it to finally work!

On 8/29/2023 at 1:13 PM, baabm said:

1) are there any limitations on the EISY side because I am using mobilinc? 

Yes, Moblinc does not see any node server items. I'm not sure if it works with Z-wave or Zigbee because I don't use them with the app so haven't tested them. (You're asking the wrong person about how a mobile app works because I rarely use any mobile apps for HOME AUTOMATION (it's automation for a reason...so you don't have to adjust it!)

Moblinc works fine with Insteon devices just as it did with the ISY994 (for my instance).

On 8/29/2023 at 1:13 PM, baabm said:

2) Is there anything else I should be aware of using this configuration?

Use it and see if it does or doesn't do stuff you want. If it doesn't do things you want/need then you should follow @DennisC suggestion of getting UD Mobile. It's currently being developed by UDI and designed specifically for the eisy (and Polisy) and the future expansion that UDI has planned for their infrastructure. 

Good luck! Glad you appear to have things working again.

Did you ever resolve your initial question about getting things working with Alexa? That link is in the first reply I gave you.

[baabm]

Dennis,

Thanks for your suggestion. I tried to use UD mobile initially and found it to be very difficult to set up. I realize that it is very powerful, but that power comes at the cost of having to set up each and every button in minute detail - set the color of each and every icon color using a hex code - REALLY?. So that’s why I wanted to use Mobilinc. Mobilinc is not quite as powerful, but it is easy to set up and start using. I can setup a whole page of mobilinc buttons in about an hour. But in UD mobile, it’s taking me tens of hours and I only have a few buttons set up (and some of those still don’t work the way I want.) In addition, mobilinc makes the interface to alexa trivial, while UD portal requires a very detailed definition of each and every program, devlce, scene, etc that you wish to control, one by one- again hours and hours of definition. 

Dennis & Geddy,

Since I got mobilinc mostly working, I was on the path to use it, but I ran into a problem using geofencing. Wes from mobilinc told me that I would have to set up port forwarding for that to work. It’s been so long since I’ve done that (and I believe there are other issues with doing that), that I am again trying to get UD mobile to fit my needs. The things I use (from the ISY994) are network resources (to control lutron shades and LIFX lights), and geofencing so the system knows when we are home or not.

So my plan now is to continue to define UD mobile, then move on to setting up alexa on UD portal. Which leads me to one more question:

For the geofence processing to work correctly, I need UD mobile on both my iphone and my wife’s. Is there an easy way to copy my final configuration from my phone to my wife’s? (Again, mobilinc provides this function with a button push on each device (very easy).  Or do i have to do everything twice?

thanks,

Bob

[Javi]

18 minutes ago, baabm said:

Is there an easy way to copy my final configuration from my phone to my wife’s? (Again, mobilinc provides this function with a button push on each device (very easy).  Or do i have to do everything twice?

Settings-Tab > backup.  iOS allows backup to iCloud but requires the backup to be moved/copied to the iPhone local storage before restore. Both backup and restore via Google drive work for Android.  Credentials may need to be rentered after restore. Geofences may need to be reenabled after restore.

With regards to Favorites, there are a one button add options. On home tab, click edit (pencil) click node, add to Favorites. Or From node dashboard (screen with all statues and command) click settings (gear) add to Favorites.

You can add a device to Alexa from the Node Dashboard also by clicking the speak (person speaking) icon.

[baabm]

Thanks Javi,

Some questions:

1 hour ago, Javi said:

Or From node dashboard (screen with all statues and command) click settings (gear) add to Favorites.

1) I’m not sure what screen you’re talking about. (Statues? And command?)

2) merely adding things to the favorites screen is not really my issue, it’s setting up the button once it’s there.

For example, how do I set up a button for a device such that I push the button and it turns the deviceon and push it again and it turns the device off? It is not obvious to me.

And similarly, for a program, one push to run then, and another push to run else?

Thanks

[Javi]

1 hour ago, baabm said:

1) I’m not sure what screen you’re talking about. (Statues? And command?)

The Node Dashboard is the screen shown which has all Status (sorry typo) and Commands for a node. i.e. clicking the node on the home screen takes you to the node dashboard

1 hour ago, baabm said:

For example, how do I set up a button for a device such that I push the button and it turns the deviceon and push it again and it turns the device off? It is not obvious to me.

This is automatic for most devices which have On and Off commands, such as lights/switches, no need to modify.

1 hour ago, baabm said:

And similarly, for a program, one push to run then, and another push to run else?

The default Program behavior on click is runIf.  So place your IF condition (i.e. if light is off) in the ISY Program which will trigger runThen (turn light on) or runElse (turn light off), then disable the program to prevent it from running automatically.

If you want to customize the display, i.e show something other than the  program on the tile, see the following example.

https://wiki.universal-devices.com/index.php?title=UD_Mobile#Favorite_Custom_Toggle

[DennisC]

3 hours ago, baabm said:

but that power comes at the cost of having to set up each and every button in minute detail - set the color of each and every icon color using a hex code - REALLY?

I do this for most of my tiles in Favorites.

 

3 hours ago, baabm said:

But in UD mobile, it’s taking me tens of hours

Huh? Why?

Here is what I do:

Once I decide the colors I want to use,  I enter the hex code in a note app on my phone. I go to my Favorites click on edit icon, enter the formula and then copy and paste the hex color code. 

If I am doing a lot, I even spend a minute in the note app and enter the custom naming I want. That way I can copy and paste that info also. Once I get going I can knock out a lot of them.

3 hours ago, baabm said:

copy my final configuration from my phone to my wife’s

@Javispelled out how to do this for you. I do it for my wife's phone and my tablet, it is very eisy and works well.

 

I also used to use Mobilinc, but I dropped them when they refused to add support for node servers because it was a "beta" feature. I find UD Mobile eisy to use, fast to respond, and I can customize it how I want.

[Javi]

I'll add that there is a global option for colors  Settings Tab > Global User Preferences which will remove the need to set each device individually.

[baabm]

Thanks - found it.

[baabm]

I want to thank all of you for helping me. It has become much easier now that I’ve gotten the hang of it. They were all good tips.

Another question or 2 though - how does UD mobile treat scenes. I wanted to turn on or turn off a scene and couldn’t seem to get it.

Regarding programs - it seems that if I already have a program with if conditions, then actions and else actions and I want to also have UD mobile control them, i should set up additional programs that are disabled just for UD mobile. (Since UD mobile only executes the IF statement.) Is this correct?

[Javi]

33 minutes ago, baabm said:

Another question or 2 though - how does UD mobile treat scenes. I wanted to turn on or turn off a scene and couldn’t seem to get it.

The default behavior for scenes functions similar to a switch. However if you have devices which do not change status such as Key Pad Link Buttons, and Battery Powered Devices may need to be removed from Scene calculations from the Node Dashboard

see: https://wiki.universal-devices.com/index.php?title=UD_Mobile#Scene_Estimated_Status

37 minutes ago, baabm said:

Regarding programs - it seems that if I already have a program with if conditions, then actions and else actions and I want to also have UD mobile control them, i should set up additional programs that are disabled just for UD mobile. (Since UD mobile only executes the IF statement.) Is this correct?

It depends.  The reason the program is disabled is to prevent a vicious loop.  In the light example posted above the program would continually run as soon as the light changes status. The status change triggers the program to runThen or runElse, which causes the a status change which causes the program to run, repeating forever.

If the IF Condition does not trigger a change, such as an integer variable, then you can use as is.  If the IF Condition triggers a change then the program will run on its own. So issuing the runIf command from UDM may not have any effect as the Then/Else action may have already been executed.

[DennisC]

14 hours ago, baabm said:

For example, how do I set up a button for a device such that I push the button and it turns the deviceon and push it again and it turns the device off? It is not obvious to me

You can also set up Favorite tile of the Command type and for the action have it run the "then" portion of the program. Create a second one to run "else".

This way with  push of the button you run the section of a program you want. You can then add a custom name and have the tile change color when running.

[baabm]

Again I want to thank all of you for helping. I think I was making it more difficult than it had to be. I am either finished with developing my UD mobile page or very close.

Thanks all.

[baabm]

So I've made good progress on setting up alexa using UD mobile. I deleted the Mobilinc skill from Alexa. Then I removed all the devices that were linked to Alexa via mobilinc (I couldn't find the FORGET ALL, that is talked about in several places, so I did it manually.

Then I used UD mobile on the HOME page, Devices and Scenes and one by one, added a spoken for each of the items I want to control via Alexa. I told Alexa to discover devices and most of it worked as expected.

I had one scene named "All kitchen lights" and its spoken was "All kitchen lights". I thought I should just simplify this to the spoken "Kitchen Lights". But when I tried to do this, UD mobile told me that spoken was already used. So I went back through each and every device and scene in the kitchen folder of UD and cannot find a spoken "kitchen".  Is there a way to easily find this device? 

Note that if I open Alexa and look at all devices - sure enough there is a device named Kitchen lights. If I try to turn it on or off, nothing happens (Alexa beeps as if it accepts and executes the command. (I've walked through  the house and no lights are on.)

I've deleted the Kitchen lights device from Alexa, re-discovered devices and it shows up again.

Any clue on how I should proceed?

Thanks,

Bob

[Javi]

My guess is that another device has the spoken, or Alternate Spoken as "Kitchen Lights".  Currently UD Mobile does not have a search function for Alexa, but the Portal Website does.   From my.isy.io for the system UUID under the tools column press Select Tool > Connectivity > Amazon Echo, the try a search in the search box.

[baabm]

Thanks. Found it.