Motion Sensor II

[johnjces]

With the latest promotion with Insteon, I was wondering if Insteon and UDI have worked out the ongoing issues with the Motion Sensor II. There have been quite a few forum posts on the motion sensor II and suggestions to use a Z wave product instead and issues with the Insteon product. I have a couple of them and they work, but...  a lot of the features available in, or actually shown, in the GUI for my eisy, (latest firmware version), simply don't work. Mine are battery operated and show up as not battery operated. And I have always pushed the set button to read and write changes to the motion sensor. LED off never works, still always flashes, and other similar things..

So just wondering if this will ever work fully with UDI stuff.

Thanks again for any insight.

John

Edited August 16 by johnjces

[paulbates]

I think Insteon's intentions for the MSII and its API, and what they actually support in their own hub/director, and by extension iox, are 2 different things For example: ambient temperature

I bought one last fall and have it USB powered in my garage to turn on the lights. It works perfectly for that, lights come on instantly. When I saw the iox msII config page and with temperature alert settings, I wanted to try it for cold/hot alerts. I never could understand how to use it....

When I look in the MSII manual from Insteon, that and other advanced features are not mentioned. I don't have an Insteon hub or director, I'm wondering if it shows and useable there.

My opinion is UDI coded to an API that has never fully been supported. I think what works in the MSII is what works, I don't expect to see changes.

[larryllix]

I think Insteon's intentions for the MSII and its API, and what they actually support in their own hub/director, and by extension iox, are 2 different things For example: ambient temperature
I bought one last fall and have it USB powered in my garage to turn on the lights. It works perfectly for that, lights come on instantly. When I saw the iox msII config page and with temperature alert settings, I wanted to try it for cold/hot alerts. I never could understand how to use it....
When I look in the MSII manual from Insteon, that and other advanced features are not mentioned. I don't have an Insteon hub or director, I'm wondering if it shows and useable there.
My opinion is UDI coded to an API that has never fully been supported. I think what works in the MSII is what works, I don't expect to see changes.

UDI did a hack to support this model and stated without a proper API, they would no longer do this for any new device.

I don't know if the new Insteon ever supplied them with a proper API, but many bugs still exist in the MS II or support drivers.

I use them for MS only, and they work reliably most of the time, but with some workarounds in technique from the MS I.

Sent from my SM-S711W using Tapatalk

[IndyMike]

@johnjces,

I'm curious what features are not working for you?  You mentioned the Led On/Off setting.  I can confirm that this setting DOES work using my ISY994.  I was able to disable the LED on 2 of my MS II's using both battery and powered mode.

You also mentioned the EISY GUI.  Most of the features in the GUI were designed for USB Powered devices.  As @paulbates indicated, the MS II performs nicely on USB.

Like you, I use battery mode on my devices.  Since the MS II's don't actively send Level information, you will normally see an empty screen as follows.  I'm guessing that's what you're referring to.

The MS II can be queried for this information, but it must be done when the device is awake.  I normally don't worry about the temp and luminance, but battery level would be nice.

The following program can be used to query the MS II after it detects motion.  It does work, but I would be very careful using this since it generates a good deal of communication with the sensor.  I had initially tried this with the sensor switching ON (not recommended).  The query worked, but the sensor was trying to send Off commands while the ISY was querying it (not good).  

If you want to deploy this, I would put time constraints on it (don't execute more than X times/day) and experiment with "waits" after the trigger.  Polling too often will run down your battery and runs the risk of communication collisions.

Not trying to talk you out of "different" motion sensors.  I have both Zwave (Zooz ZSE 40) multisensor and am test driving some Zigbee mmWave occupancy sensors.  The have nice features that include accurate temperature and light monitoring.  In the mean time the Insteon sensors are still serving me well for basic motion detection.

BSMT Stair Sensor Query - [ID 0044][Parent 0066]
If
        'Motion/RF / BSMT Stair.1 Motion' is switched Off
Then
        Set 'Motion/RF / BSMT Stair.1 Motion' Query
Else
   - No Actions - (To add one, press 'Action')
 

 

After program query

 

[IndyMike]

Followup to my previous post.  Using a wait after the trigger will NOT work.  The motion sensor goes into sleep mode very quickly after it transmits it's On/Off status.

I played around a bit and found that the following 2 programs seem to work well with my ISY994. 

1. The "enable program" runs a timer on the "last run time" for the query program.  After one hour, it enables the query program.  After the enable, the next time the sensor is triggers (and turns off) the 2nd program will query it.
2. The query program is normally disabled to prevent over polling the motion sensor.  After an enable and a Off trigger, it runs a query.  10 sec's later (time allowed for the query) the program disables itself.  This program is set to "run at startup" to reset the "last run time" in the 1st program.

I've had roughly 85% success with this program.  Querying the motion sensor is a time sensitive process.  Other Insteon activity can delay the query and allow the sensor to go into sleep mode.  Nor worries, after another 1 (or xx) hours you can try again.

I really don't know how much functionality this adds.  I've seen temperatures ranging from -25 to 130+ on the same sensor.  Illumination also seems to vary substantially.  Hopefully battery level is consistent.  I'm currently monitoring 3 battery sensors and will report back.

Test Sensor Enable - [ID 005C][Parent 004E]
If
        Time is Last Run Time for 'Test Sensor Query' +  1 hour 
Then
        Enable Program 'Test Sensor Query' 
Else
   - No Actions - (To add one, press 'Action')
 

 

Test Sensor Query - [ID 0053][Parent 004E][Not Enabled][Run At Startup]
If
        '4A.72.A0.1 Motion' is switched Off
Then
        Set '4A.72.A0.1 Motion' Query
        Wait  10 seconds
        Disable Program 'Test Sensor Query'
Else
   - No Actions - (To add one, press 'Action')

 

[johnjces]

Thank-you everyone for the insight.

Thank-you IndyMike for the detailed info on how to query it after an on off which I will play with. And you ask about what things aren't working.

First it does do motion sensing! That's it and that's all I can use it for. And it does that well. Temperature is not functional, unless you query it several times throughout the hour and with my eisy or your code. I have never gotten the LED to stop blinking or flash when motion is detected. I think I recall that when I first set it up that might have worked but now no matter what I do, which should be simple, does not work. Again after pressing the set button and sending the setup desired.

It is on battery only and says it is powered by USB. I cannot get a battery level unless queried. I tried making a battery node and again, one must query it and generally after pushing the set button. I know you have to do that to write to it, save your wants, wishes and desires.

In summary, I was just wanting something from a company that I have bought stuff from for years to cooperate and share their API for this device so that all might work as it should. Kudos to UDI for doing the best they could with nothing in return. Wonder what else Insteon has that might work better or other features if they would just do the right thing. They would probably sell more devices if all things worked as they should. But this I think is one that has been the most secretive!

Thanks guys!
Rant Off

John

[larryllix]

Thank-you everyone for the insight.
Thank-you IndyMike for the detailed info on how to query it after an on off which I will play with. And you ask about what things aren't working.
First it does do motion sensing! That's it and that's all I can use it for. And it does that well. Temperature is not functional, unless you query it several times throughout the hour and with my eisy or your code. I have never gotten the LED to stop blinking or flash when motion is detected. I think I recall that when I first set it up that might have worked but now no matter what I do, which should be simple, does not work. Again after pressing the set button and sending the setup desired.
It is on battery only and says it is powered by USB. I cannot get a battery level unless queried. I tried making a battery node and again, one must query it and generally after pushing the set button. I know you have to do that to write to it, save your wants, wishes and desires.
In summary, I was just wanting something from a company that I have bought stuff from for years to cooperate and share their API for this device so that all might work as it should. Kudos to UDI for doing the best they could with nothing in return. Wonder what else Insteon has that might work better or other features if they would just do the right thing. They would probably sell more devices if all things worked as they should. But this I think is one that has been the most secretive!
Thanks guys!
Rant Off
John

The MS portion uses the same timer for on times and off times. This means once your MS times off it cannot sense motion until the off timer times out. Of course, that never happens as long as the MS keeps sensing motion and lights on and/or detection never happens in a busy room.

The only way I have found to make them useful is by using a very short time delay setting, with On only, and let ISY sort out the frequent On signals.

I was hoping the new Insteon management would fix this bug as the unit is the best I have found so far.

Sent from my SM-S711W using Tapatalk

[IndyMike]

6 hours ago, larryllix said:

The MS portion uses the same timer for on times and off times. This means once your MS times off it cannot sense motion until the off timer times out. Of course, that never happens as long as the MS keeps sensing motion and lights on and/or detection never happens in a busy room.

The only way I have found to make them useful is by using a very short time delay setting, with On only, and let ISY sort out the frequent On signals.

I was hoping the new Insteon management would fix this bug as the unit is the best I have found so far.

Sent from my SM-S711W using Tapatalk
 

@larryllix, I'm confused (it happens a lot these days).  I am not sure what you would prefer the MS II to do under these conditions.

If I set my MS II for 20 seconds and it doesn't see motion, it sends an OFF (as I would expect).  The Event log below shows an off time of 27 seconds.  A little late, but I normally use 30 seconds for hallways and stairs.

Sat 08/17/2024 03:20:29 PM : [INST-SRX    ] 02 50 4A.72.A0 00.00.01 CF 11 01    LTONRR (01)
Sat 08/17/2024 03:20:29 PM : [Std-Group   ] 4A.72.A0-->Group=1, Max Hops=3, Hops Left=3
Sat 08/17/2024 03:20:29 PM : [D2D EVENT   ] Event [4A 72 A0 1] [DON] [1] uom=0 prec=-1
Sat 08/17/2024 03:20:29 PM : [  4A 72 A0 1]      DON   1
Sat 08/17/2024 03:20:56 PM : [INST-SRX    ] 02 50 4A.72.A0 00.00.01 CF 13 01    LTOFFRR(01)
Sat 08/17/2024 03:20:56 PM : [Std-Group   ] 4A.72.A0-->Group=1, Max Hops=3, Hops Left=3
Sat 08/17/2024 03:20:56 PM : [D2D EVENT   ] Event [4A 72 A0 1] [DOF] [1] uom=0 prec=-1
Sat 08/17/2024 03:20:56 PM : [  4A 72 A0 1]      DOF   1

The same sensor will extend the OFF command indefinitely if it continues to see motion.  The following log is from my same sensor when it continues to see motion.  The Off command was extended by 1:30.  This is what I would expect.  

What was it that you were expecting?

Sat 08/17/2024 03:21:16 PM : [INST-SRX    ] 02 50 4A.72.A0 00.00.01 CF 11 01    LTONRR (01)
Sat 08/17/2024 03:21:16 PM : [Std-Group   ] 4A.72.A0-->Group=1, Max Hops=3, Hops Left=3
Sat 08/17/2024 03:21:16 PM : [D2D EVENT   ] Event [4A 72 A0 1] [DON] [1] uom=0 prec=-1
Sat 08/17/2024 03:21:16 PM : [  4A 72 A0 1]      DON   1
Sat 08/17/2024 03:23:18 PM : [INST-SRX    ] 02 50 4A.72.A0 00.00.01 CF 13 01    LTOFFRR(01)
Sat 08/17/2024 03:23:18 PM : [Std-Group   ] 4A.72.A0-->Group=1, Max Hops=3, Hops Left=3
Sat 08/17/2024 03:23:18 PM : [D2D EVENT   ] Event [4A 72 A0 1] [DOF] [1] uom=0 prec=-1
Sat 08/17/2024 03:23:18 PM : [  4A 72 A0 1]      DOF   1

I do use a program to manage my Kitchen sensors I with a short timeout) to ensure that no one has been around for XX minutes prior to shutting down the lights/  That's an entirely different configuration that unfortunately consumes batteries. 

[larryllix]

16 hours ago, IndyMike said:

@larryllix, I'm confused (it happens a lot these days).  I am not sure what you would prefer the MS II to do under these conditions.

If I set my MS II for 20 seconds and it doesn't see motion, it sends an OFF (as I would expect).  The Event log below shows an off time of 27 seconds.  A little late, but I normally use 30 seconds for hallways and stairs.

Sat 08/17/2024 03:20:29 PM : [INST-SRX    ] 02 50 4A.72.A0 00.00.01 CF 11 01    LTONRR (01)
Sat 08/17/2024 03:20:29 PM : [Std-Group   ] 4A.72.A0-->Group=1, Max Hops=3, Hops Left=3
Sat 08/17/2024 03:20:29 PM : [D2D EVENT   ] Event [4A 72 A0 1] [DON] [1] uom=0 prec=-1
Sat 08/17/2024 03:20:29 PM : [  4A 72 A0 1]      DON   1
Sat 08/17/2024 03:20:56 PM : [INST-SRX    ] 02 50 4A.72.A0 00.00.01 CF 13 01    LTOFFRR(01)
Sat 08/17/2024 03:20:56 PM : [Std-Group   ] 4A.72.A0-->Group=1, Max Hops=3, Hops Left=3
Sat 08/17/2024 03:20:56 PM : [D2D EVENT   ] Event [4A 72 A0 1] [DOF] [1] uom=0 prec=-1
Sat 08/17/2024 03:20:56 PM : [  4A 72 A0 1]      DOF   1

The same sensor will extend the OFF command indefinitely if it continues to see motion.  The following log is from my same sensor when it continues to see motion.  The Off command was extended by 1:30.  This is what I would expect.  

What was it that you were expecting?

Sat 08/17/2024 03:21:16 PM : [INST-SRX    ] 02 50 4A.72.A0 00.00.01 CF 11 01    LTONRR (01)
Sat 08/17/2024 03:21:16 PM : [Std-Group   ] 4A.72.A0-->Group=1, Max Hops=3, Hops Left=3
Sat 08/17/2024 03:21:16 PM : [D2D EVENT   ] Event [4A 72 A0 1] [DON] [1] uom=0 prec=-1
Sat 08/17/2024 03:21:16 PM : [  4A 72 A0 1]      DON   1
Sat 08/17/2024 03:23:18 PM : [INST-SRX    ] 02 50 4A.72.A0 00.00.01 CF 13 01    LTOFFRR(01)
Sat 08/17/2024 03:23:18 PM : [Std-Group   ] 4A.72.A0-->Group=1, Max Hops=3, Hops Left=3
Sat 08/17/2024 03:23:18 PM : [D2D EVENT   ] Event [4A 72 A0 1] [DOF] [1] uom=0 prec=-1
Sat 08/17/2024 03:23:18 PM : [  4A 72 A0 1]      DOF   1

I do use a program to manage my Kitchen sensors I with a short timeout) to ensure that no one has been around for XX minutes prior to shutting down the lights/  That's an entirely different configuration that unfortunately consumes batteries. 

As per other MS devices, and the Insteon MS I, I would expect the MS II to NOT lock itself out and NOT to never report motion, as long as it keeps seeing motion while off. I expect any MS device to report motion as it sees it, and NOT lock off lights until it stops seeing motion.

In your example of 20 seconds, after the MS has timed out, and shut off the lights, if you then start walking back and forth, retriggering the OFF timer, it will never turn the lights back on until no motion is seen for at least 20 seconds.

I believe you are not seeing the difference between the Off command and the Off duration.

Edited August 18 by larryllix

[IndyMike]

3 hours ago, larryllix said:

As per other MS devices, and the Insteon MS I, I would expect the MS II to NOT lock itself out and NOT to never report motion, as long as it keeps seeing motion while off. I expect any MS device to report motion as it sees it, and NOT lock off lights until it stops seeing motion.

In your example of 20 seconds, after the MS has timed out, and shut off the lights, if you then start walking back and forth, retriggering the OFF timer, it will never turn the lights back on until no motion is seen for at least 20 seconds.

I believe you are not seeing the difference between the Off command and the Off duration.

You are correct - I do not see an OFF Duration.  That would be rather annoying.

I ran another test with the MS II set to 5 minutes.  I extended the ON time by re-triggering the sensor.  Sensor turned the light off after 6 Min 30 Sec.  I was able to re-trigger the sensor back ON 5 seconds later.

If you see something different it could be hardware/firmware revisions? My sensor is a V.46 unit R3.1 with a date code of 4317. 

 

Sun 08/18/2024 11:10:51 AM : [  4A 72 A0 1]      DON   1
6 Min 30 Sec
Sun 08/18/2024 11:17:21 AM : [  4A 72 A0 1]      DOF   1
5 Sec
Sun 08/18/2024 11:17:26 AM : [  4A 72 A0 1]      DON   1

 

[larryllix]

Thanks. I'll have to check those revisions and dates. Mine are all from the old Insteon before my reports were sent.

Strange how I always seem to get the versions with the  defects. I guess too much "bleeding edge".

However I only use one of my three MS IIs as a light operator where this is really annoying. Mine are all on USB power so the frequency of sending ON only isn't important for battery life. A very short On duration creates a very short OFF duration also.

[larryllix]

@IndyMike

OK. My MS II, that definitely displays this bad behaviour, is a V.47  R3.4,  Date 17 19.

As far as I can remember I tested them all for this behaviour and they all do it.

So much for not being on the bleeding edge here. 
Labour dispute just before Insteon collapse?

* * * Ohh... The firmware revision (V.47) is from the IoX device page and may not be correct but rather the version UDI supported at the time they wrote the code. * * *

Edited August 19 by larryllix

[IndyMike]

That's unfortunate. 

I thought it might be a difference in battery (mine) vs USB (yours) power.  Tested the same configuration as above.  After turning OFF, My MS II will respond with a ON within seconds.

Wouldn't be the 1st time something was broken by a firmware/software change (just ask Delta, banks, hospitals...).

Not sure it helps, but this is the configuration I'm running on the MS II's.  I do turn off the Cleanup messages to cut down on traffic.

 

[larryllix]

On 8/19/2024 at 12:25 PM, IndyMike said:

That's unfortunate. 

I thought it might be a difference in battery (mine) vs USB (yours) power.  Tested the same configuration as above.  After turning OFF, My MS II will respond with a ON within seconds.

Wouldn't be the 1st time something was broken by a firmware/software change (just ask Delta, banks, hospitals...).

Not sure it helps, but this is the configuration I'm running on the MS II's.  I do turn off the Cleanup messages to cut down on traffic.

 

OK. It is coming back to me more.

I enabled the "send On and Off" and tested the MS II. It works properly and no Off time out causes problems, as you are finding. However the time On delay time does not function according to setting. The closest I could come was the increased delay with motion is about half of the setting delay. Eg. with your 20 second delay, if motion is detected at 18 seconds the resultant "lights off" will result at about 28 seconds. Not that big of a deal but not according to setting implications.

The problem starts  when you enable "send On" only. I experimented with this last night by increasing my On time to 40 seconds, and found after the lights turn off as long as you keep moving in the room the lights will never turn on again. X seconds of no motion must be detected before the MS II is not blind and will react to motion. This is a bug in the design IMHO.

This was never a  concern for Insteon (and they appear to have ignored complaints) as the full On and Off signal style  works with their Insteon Hub (having no smarts), but smarter response logic from an ISY box require "On only" to retrigger program logic.  I dim  my brightness levels in the evenings, and sleep hours, as well as, shorten my On times, thus Off signals would just confuse some of this. As a workaround, I use a short On time, so that the Off/ Blind time is not as long.

[IndyMike]

On 8/20/2024 at 12:51 PM, larryllix said:

I enabled the "send On and Off" and tested the MS II. It works properly and no Off time out causes problems, as you are finding. However the time On delay time does not function according to setting. The closest I could come was the increased delay with motion is about half of the setting delay. Eg. with your 20 second delay, if motion is detected at 18 seconds the resultant "lights off" will result at about 28 seconds. Not that big of a deal but not according to setting implications.

The problem starts  when you enable "send On" only. I experimented with this last night by increasing my On time to 40 seconds, and found after the lights turn off as long as you keep moving in the room the lights will never turn on again. X seconds of no motion must be detected before the MS II is not blind and will react to motion. This is a bug in the design IMHO.

@larryllix, sorry if I'm beating a dead horse, but...

Some of this is coming back to me as well.  That probably means that we've been doing this far too long.

I've been doing some testing, and I do agree with your statement that the MS II sensor On/Off timing is rather inaccurate.  The table below shows "On/Off Time Error" for one of my MS II's (battery).  In all cases the Off time exceeds the MS II setting by a substantial %.  If you re-trigger the MS II within the On window it will reset the internal timer and thereby extend the off time (as you have noted).

Note that Test 1 - is longer in every case.  This is likely due to the fact that I am programming the MS II during the 1st activation.

Once I knew the On/Off cycle timing for the sensor, I programmed it for On Only operation ( On Only Trigger below).  In every case I was able to trigger the sensor On AS LONG AS I WAITED for the On cycle to complete.  The times for the On Only Trigger are longer as I was manually timing the cycle and manually activating the sensor. 

I don't believe there is a problem with the On only mode of the MS II.  The issue is the relative inaccuracy and variation of the Sensors timing (all modes).  Viewed as  % error, the timing stabilized @5% once the duration extended past 5 Minutes.  There is apparently a bit of overhead involved in the timing, communication, and processing of the signal.

All in all, I don't think that a 10% error is all that bad (2 minute duration) and I certainly don't worry about a 6 - 12 second error in the duration.

If you applications require more accurate duration's, you should be able to "Test" the on/off timing and compensate the duration.  Switching to On Only mode with a compensated duration should give you the performance that you're looking for.

 

 

 

On/Off Timing - MS II Set to 20 seconds
Off Issued after 32 seconds

Tue 08/20/2024 01:55:40 PM : [  4A 72 A0 1]      DON   1
Tue 08/20/2024 01:56:12 PM : [  4A 72 A0 1]      DOF   1

MS II Sensor On Only Timing - Sensor Set to 20 Seconds
Sensor Manually Re-triggered at Times Noted
Tue 08/20/2024 02:07:36 PM : [  4A 72 A0 1]      DON   1											
Tue 08/20/2024 02:08:09 PM : [  4A 72 A0 1]      DON   1	Manual Trigger at 33 Sec
Tue 08/20/2024 02:08:39 PM : [  4A 72 A0 1]      DON   1	Manual Trigger at 29 Sec
Tue 08/20/2024 02:09:08 PM : [  4A 72 A0 1]      DON   1	Manual Trigger at 28 Sec

 

[larryllix]

The On cycle time has never been a problem.

[IndyMike]

On 8/20/2024 at 12:51 PM, larryllix said:

The problem starts  when you enable "send On" only. I experimented with this last night by increasing my On time to 40 seconds, and found after the lights turn off as long as you keep moving in the room the lights will never turn on again. X seconds of no motion must be detected before the MS II is not blind and will react to motion. This is a bug in the design IMHO.

You are sensing the MS II On with a Program and then turning the Lights OFF after 4X seconds.  If you are issuing the OFF prior to ~ 50 seconds you are still within the MS II 40 second duration.  Motion at this point will not trigger an on.

Edit: Timing is for 1 MS II on battery.  Your timing may be different.

Edited August 24 by IndyMike

[larryllix]

1 hour ago, IndyMike said:

You are sensing the MS II On with a Program and then turning the Lights OFF after 4X seconds.  If you are issuing the OFF prior to ~ 50 seconds you are still within the MS II 40 second duration.  Motion at this point will not trigger an on.

Edit: Timing is for 1 MS II on battery.  Your timing may be different.

No. I am using an Insteon Scene, direct connection, to turn lamps on. Programs determine the brightness level of the lamps in the scene, based on time of day.
I am using a program to determine how long the On duration will be and turn the lamps off.
The time duration inside the MS II is set to 7 seconds to avoid such long blind times in the MS II.

It still remains when using On Only signal mode with the MS II, that the MS II remains completely blind, and unresponsive, during the Off time if motion is detected during the delay that should only affect the On duration. While the MS II is in the Off cycle, it remains blind until  no motion is detected for the duration of the On Time setting.

Edited August 24 by larryllix

[IndyMike]

I guess we'll have to re-wind to my previous post.  Your MS II's behave differently than mine.  I have no problems triggering the sensor in the Off cycle regardless of which mode it's in.

Edited August 24 by IndyMike

[larryllix]

3 hours ago, IndyMike said:

I guess we'll have to re-wind to my previous post.  Your MS II's behave differently than mine.  I have no problems triggering the sensor in the Off cycle regardless of which mode it's in.

Sounds totally confused at this point! LOL

From what I can see in your testing, you did  some good  testing to test the Off time delay (while On cycle is in process) but not the Off time cycle. 

I still believe they likely all respond the same, according to the many reports here, when they were first launched. These units appear to be fine for an Insteon only system but not as useful as for a home automation controller applying more advanced logic.

[ELA]

One more data point for reference in hopes might help:

MSII:   R3.3 ,  date code 3418 , V.47

Initially set for both on and off with a 10sec timeout.

Measured actual on time at 14sec ( when off command is sent)

 

Re- Set for On only with same 10sec timeout

Actuate and wait 15 seconds then actuate again  = will send another on status message.

[larryllix]

30 minutes ago, ELA said:

One more data point for reference in hopes might help:

MSII:   R3.3 ,  date code 3418 , V.47

Initially set for both on and off with a 10sec timeout.

Measured actual on time at 14sec ( when off command is sent)

 

Re- Set for On only with same 10sec timeout

Actuate and wait 15 seconds then actuate again  = will send another on status message.

That all works fine but the problem is when using "On Only" with ISY programs for retriggering the MS II will not send another motion detected signal while the Off timer has not expired and the Off cycle timer will never expire as long as it is seeing motion.

Try this:
-Set your MS II to "Send On" only.
-Set your MS II to "40 seconds"
-Create motion and turn lights on. (time = 0 seconds)
-Allow program and MS to time out ( >40 seconds)
-At about 60 seconds (20 seconds later), start creating motion.
-Create motion about every 10 seconds, for the next few minutes. Don't miss.

Does the MS II ever blink green, indicating "On" is being sent.... or,  does your program ever get triggered by the MS II? This is the "blind period" I am referring to. This is not the On time to Off delay period, although the same internal timer has been used for this "blind" period.
-Stop motion for 40 seconds, and then create motion again. MS II should blink green and program should get triggered again.

My MS II units are all datecoded:  17 15.  All the same manufactured date, despite them being purchased at many intervals, months apart. **sigh**

BTW: My temperatures reported have never functioned decently as the resolution of the reports seems to be about 3.0c (5.4F) and makes them unsettable any finer than that and mostly useless. Readings only jump back and forth. I ignore all reading that are not MS related.

[ELA]

try this:
-Set your MS II to "Send On" only.   Done
-Set your MS II to "40 seconds"    did
-Create motion and turn lights on. (time = 0 seconds)  Did it
-Allow program and MS to time out ( >40 seconds)   Yup
-At about 60 seconds (20 seconds later), start creating motion.    Did this and motion sensor sends On command
-Create motion about every 10 seconds, for the next few minutes. Don't miss.

      Your last line may be where the confusion comes in. 

 IndyMike and I are saying that the MSII can be retriggered once the ON time has timed out at 40 sec+    ...   your last line is now attempting to retrigger the device BEFORE the On time times out and thus it will not send more ON commands.  If you don't wait you are re-extending the ON time by restarting it.   Anytime you wait long enough for the ON timer to expire then a retrigger can be created and once again an ON command is sent.  

 When configured for ON-ONLY there is NO OFF time.  You must wait for the ON time to expire before retriggering if you want additional On commands to be sent.

Edited August 25 by ELA

[larryllix]

5 hours ago, ELA said:

try this:
-Set your MS II to "Send On" only.   Done
-Set your MS II to "40 seconds"    did
-Create motion and turn lights on. (time = 0 seconds)  Did it
-Allow program and MS to time out ( >40 seconds)   Yup
-At about 60 seconds (20 seconds later), start creating motion.    Did this and motion sensor sends On command
-Create motion about every 10 seconds, for the next few minutes. Don't miss.

      Your last line may be where the confusion comes in. 

 IndyMike and I are saying that the MSII can be retriggered once the ON time has timed out at 40 sec+    ...   your last line is now attempting to retrigger the device BEFORE the On time times out and thus it will not send more ON commands.  If you don't wait you are re-extending the ON time by restarting it.   Anytime you wait long enough for the ON timer to expire then a retrigger can be created and once again an ON command is sent.  

 When configured for ON-ONLY there is NO OFF time.  You must wait for the ON time to expire before retriggering if you want additional On commands to be sent.

Read your last post again. 60 seconds has always been longer than 40 seconds, and always will be. The lights on timer have timed out at 40 seconds and at 60 seconds the lights and On timer inside the MS II should be doing nothing. It isn't. It is timing the off cycle now.

EDIT: OK you are considering the lights/MS II to be in an ON cycle again. My MS II devices would still be in a locked out OFF cycle and will never trigger an On cycle again until motions stops for 40 seconds (same timer used for ON cycle).

I have to assume there are different versions of the firmware inside.

Edited August 26 by larryllix

[johnjces]

I am pleased that my question got quite a bit of discussion! Now my hope would be that;

INSTEON, if you're listening, PLEASE help the folks at UDI make this and ALL your devices work 100% on our platform of choice, Universal Devices!

Thanks