ISY994i Population

[BRMeeke]

I am implementing a new ISY994i to replace an old defunct system.  Previous system designer has disappeared.

Customer has 60-75 Insteon devices with many buried behind sconces and inside chandeliers.  The keypads and switches were very straightforward. 

is there a way to scrape the rest of the house to automatically pickup the remaining devices?   I have been using UD mobile.  I have remote access to the ISY if that helps. 

thank you

[paulbates]

When you add an Insteon device from the linking menu, one you know the Insteon ID of like a wall switch or plugin module, there's and option to have it not delete existing links, and use the links table of that device as input to find the others. You'll need to spend time after it's done cleaning up and naming things as it can't know what function it is e.g "Kitchen Table". You'll have to turn on on the devices it's discovered to see what goes with what. It takes a long time so go get a coffee (or beer  )

A couple of assumptions

• The "buried" devices are all linked to other devices that are being searched by this iox feature, so that they can be found
• The buried and other old devices weren't used in X10 mode that some older Insteon devices supported.
• The devices aren't dead

This should get you most of the way there and point to what devices weren't found by virtue of you not being able to turn them on or off with the device table that is built from this feature.

 I tried this when I first moved to the ISY with about 30 devices and resultant list of devices looked like a mess and some of the scenes where hard to figure... but as I renamed devices to functional, meaningful names, it got closer to making sense, Some scenes didn't make sense and I deleted and rebuilt what i needed

 

 

Edited Saturday at 02:46 AM by paulbates

[Guy Lavoie]

Ouch, sounds like quite a project. You will need two things: patience...and more patience.

[BRMeeke]

Hi Paul

 

thank you for the quick response.  I am well aware of the mess that I will need to cleanup after all of the hidden devices have been added.  I just need them to be included first.  
 

I have been adding devices through UD Mobile.  Did I miss something in the Add that tells the software to follow links and add associated devices?

Edited Saturday at 03:01 AM by BRMeeke
Clarity

[paulbates]

44 minutes ago, BRMeeke said:

I have been adding devices through UD Mobile.  Did I miss something in the Add that tells the software to follow links and add associated devices?

Advanced Insteon tasks need to be done in iox on java capable pc, etc

[BRMeeke]

So instead of using UD Mobile, I should be using eisy?   
 

does eisy work remotely or do I have to be on the same network?

[oberkc]

I believe one needs to be on the same network to use the Java interface to IoX.

8 hours ago, BRMeeke said:

So instead of using UD Mobile, I should be using eisy?

That question strikes me as apples and oranges, especially since you originally said you were "implementing a new ISY-994i" (and not, interestingly, a new EISY).  UD Mobile is a remote android/iOS app to the ISY-994 (no longer produced), the Polisy, and the EISY.  I don't believe it provides the full spectrum of capabilities available from the Java interface to the ISY/Polisy/EISY.  

[paulbates]

8 hours ago, BRMeeke said:

does eisy work remotely or do I have to be on the same network?

You can run iox remotely by having a UDI Portal account. It provides a link that that can be used on a remote iox instance. Note the instructions on which login credentials to use

Edited Saturday at 12:42 PM by paulbates

[BRMeeke]

I already have a portal account which I tested when I set the box up.    but it is always looking locally.   So if I clear the Java cache, will it give me the option to connect remotely?

[paulbates]

Double check the directions in the link I posted above. It's not necessary to clear the java cache unless there are specific symptoms. You can log on locally when you're there, or via the manual remote link you create per the directions when you're away.

When remote, iox will use the portal as a proxy to initiate conversation with the eisy. Even though it's the same iox login screen, you have to use your udi portal credentials when remote. It took me a couple of times initially to get that right

[BRMeeke]

Thanks for the advice.  I’ll give it a try. 

[Guy Lavoie]

If you see several keypadlincs in the home, it would be best to link those first (and selecting "Add devices found in links and keep existing links"). Keypadlincs are there to control several other devices, and often the less obvious ones like fanlincs and other devices with no local buttons. No on;y that, but you'll be able to visually correlate the individual buttons with what they actually control, and match them up with the imported devices. 

[BRMeeke]

The existing system is at a customer's house,   The old device is DOA and the old programmer is nowhere to be found.   So they hired me to do it for them.   

I have already added 26 keypads.   ISY is running at customers house.  I am hoping that I can remotely control ISY and tell it that it should start to scrape the rest of the house for hidden devices.  

When I start IOX Laucher, I have a standard screen with no devices shown because it is looking locally.   it is not asking me to login with my remote ID.   If i try to refresh or Load, it prompts me for a URL.  

[paulbates]

6 minutes ago, BRMeeke said:

When I start IOX Laucher, I have a standard screen with no devices shown because it is looking locally.   it is not asking me to login with my remote ID.   If i try to refresh or Load, it prompts me for a URL.  

 

If the client is present when "the scrape" is going on, tell them to expect random beeps from everywhere there is an Insteon device

Edited Saturday at 03:07 PM by paulbates

[IndyMike]

On 2/8/2025 at 10:00 AM, BRMeeke said:

The existing system is at a customer's house,   The old device is DOA and the old programmer is nowhere to be found.   So they hired me to do it for them.   

I have already added 26 keypads.   ISY is running at customers house.  I am hoping that I can remotely control ISY and tell it that it should start to scrape the rest of the house for hidden devices.  

When I start IOX Laucher, I have a standard screen with no devices shown because it is looking locally.   it is not asking me to login with my remote ID.   If i try to refresh or Load, it prompts me for a URL.  

@BRMeeke, 26 KPL's is a lot.  That consumes a lot of links in the PLM (1024 max) and nodes in the ISY (1000 max).  Keep an eye on both.

[Guy Lavoie]

22 minutes ago, IndyMike said:

@BRMeeke, 26 KPL's is a lot.  That consumes a lot of links in the PLM (1024 max) and nodes in the ISY (1000 max).  Keep an eye on both.

I think he meant keypads in a general sense (wall switches and/or keypadlincs. He says 60 to 75 total Insteon devices in his initial post.

[BRMeeke]

We have already added 26 keypads and I was told that they have 60-70 devices total.   So I need to discover another 40 devices and most of them are buried in the walls behind the various wall sconces, etc. 

[lilyoyo1]

14 hours ago, BRMeeke said:

We have already added 26 keypads and I was told that they have 60-70 devices total.   So I need to discover another 40 devices and most of them are buried in the walls behind the various wall sconces, etc. 

Do they not have a backup that you can restore from their old ISY to the new? That would be your easiest option. Since you've already added the kpls, it may already be too late to find old devices. I would ask them if they have a backup so you could use that instead. 

If there is no backup you can turn on each kpl and see what devices also turns on (potentially off). Once added to the system via your laptop/desktop computer using the admin console, you could then control each of the devices to match the IDs to. Its going to be one heck of a time setting everything up the way you will have to. Outside of what's mentioned, you'll have to open stuff up. Most likely the devices aren't actually buried in the walls. You will however, need to check behind fixtures and so forth.

 

Edited Monday at 01:34 PM by lilyoyo1

[Guy Lavoie]

From the first post, I get a sense that the previous controller wasn't a UDI controller at all.

[BRMeeke]

The current system is using an old ISY994/IR.   It is DOA and the old programmer is nowhere to be found.  Too bad he didn’t give the client a backup of their system but from what I have been told, he wasn’t very good. 

[Guy Lavoie]

If the old one is a ISY994i, it might be worth trying the SD card contact clean and reseating procedure. Getting the old device list would certainly be a huge timesaver.

[BRMeeke]

It definitely would be a good thing to have but the old ISY won’t even boot.  As I said, it is DOA. 

[Brian H]

Try a new power supply.

They had a reputation to fail from time to time. I had two om my ISY994i and one on the older ISY99i.

[Geddy]

@BRMeeke from the wiki about the power supply:

(Source: https://wiki.universal-devices.com/Main_Page#Front_Panel_LEDs/Lights)

Quote

• Only Power Light Is On:
  • Most probably power supply related. You can try any power supply that outputs anywhere between 5 volt and 30 volts,center positive, 2mm barrel connector

 

 

[Brian H]

Mine was worse. The power LED flashed as it tried to boot and then the supply crashed and the sequence started again.