@Javi

Continuing our side discussion started in https://forum.universal-devices.com/topic/47304-no-scenes-in-eisy-ui/, my understanding of the programmatic intent is as follows (please correct any misinterpretations I have made):

Groups: Are a collection of various nodes that have been associated together to act in concert. They appear in the node tree in IoX as a separate entity and contain other nodes, some defined as controllers of the group and others defined as responders to the group. Groups can have multiple controllers and multiple responders. They are analogous to what were referred to as Scenes in Administrative Console.

Scenes: Are a defined subset of a group, associated with a specific group controller, which specifies the on level or other parameters of the responders in the group when the group is activated from that controller. Scenes are designated by the group controller which activates them, have no separate name, and do not appear in the IoX node tree as separate entities. Every controller assigned to a group has an associated scene, which by default contains all responders and controller/responders in the group at an on level of On or 100%. When the first node (controller or responder) is added to a group, IoX creates a virtual controller of the group (with a name to match the group) which also has an associated scene. The virtual controller's scene is invoked whenever the group is controlled programmatically by IoX, and the scene associated with a specific controller is invoked whenever the group is triggered by that physical controller (switch, keypad button, mini module, etc.) Since IoX (and Insteon) need to know what you want to happen when you press a physical button, every physical controller can only be assigned (as a controller) to one group, and therefore has only one scene associated with it.

Although every controller's default scene that is assigned when the controller is added to a group contains all responders at full brightness, each scene can subsequently be modified in EISY-UI (and in AC). Each responder in a scene can have its brightness, ramp rate and retries changed. Responders in the group can effectively be eliminated from a scene entirely by setting their on level to off, even while they remain in the group.

It should also be noted that these scenes are implemented in native Insteon commands (at least for Insteon nodes) and will therefore continue to operate in the absence of IoX and the EISY controller. Implementation of scenes can also be mimicked programmatically in IoX by creating programs that set individual on level for each desired responder node.

A couple of suggestions for future updates to EISY-UI to reinforce these distinctions:

1. Right clicking a node in the EISY-UI node list brings up the option to "Add to Group". Subsequent dialog boxes, including the Scene Selector and Add to Scene should be changed to Group Selector and Add to Group.

2. Throughout EISY-UI (and UD Mobile for that matter) most references to Scenes should be changed to Groups. Since Scenes are not separate entities, they don't actually appear anywhere in the node tree.

3. In generic Insteon linking (i.e. without a hub or controller), the linking process actually creates a group and automatically modifies the associated controller scene since the responder is linked to the controller at whatever on level the responder is currently set to. In IoX, the addition of a controller to a group sets its scene at full on for all responders. Similarly, adding a responder sets it at full on for all controllers. This is understandable, since the association is being made remote from the physical entities and if a controller were added to a group when all of the responders were turned off it would appear that the linking failed since none of the responders would come on with the controller. However, to reinforce the availability and customizability of scenes, it would be desirable to add an additional radio button to the Add to Group dialog box so that when a node is added, a separate option allows the user to "Customize Associated Scenes". Leaving this unselected would preserve the existing behavior: all responders would be added at full brightness to new controllers and new responders would be added at full brightness to existing controller's scenes. However, if Customize Scenes was selected, it would bring up a dialog box listing existing responders (for added controllers) or existing controllers (for added responders) and what their associated levels should be for the added node.

It is my impression from forum comments and threads that many users, particularly new users, aren't aware of the possibility of customizing scenes within an IoX group. As you have indicated, this has been further muddied by the nomenclature that has been used in the past. This enhancement (with associated documentation on the wiki) might go a long way to clearing up the confusion on this issue and providing users additional flexibility in the way that they utilize their systems.

Dave

Perfect,

With a slight change:
(1) In eisy it is prefered that all scenes are created from eisy so Insteon linking instructions should be avoided.
(2)In relation to #1, presenting all the link options at creation would add noise especially for novice users. Most users create a group to have all devices synchronized in on/off, not as a preset.
(3) Customization should be it's own section. Changing the Link type, changes the instructions and how the responders react, especially with the ON command.



(4) Expanded to included the new levels of command