paulbram Posted July 21, 2011 Posted July 21, 2011 So, a few weeks ago I noticed things weren't working as expected and when I opened up ISY it informed me of a problem communicating with my PLM. After a bit of research I determined I needed a new PLM and placed my order. New PLM has arrived and is installed. However, things are still not working well. I've attempted the Restore Modem many times, but it doesn't seem to be actually doing anything. All of my devices still have the little green pending updates icon and nothing seems to clear them. ISY seems to be constantly trying to write the updates but to no avail. I often see errors like "Failed writing device link" [-200000/-51] I've tried replacing cables, power cycling, nothing is working so far. Do you think my original PLM was ok all along and something else is wrong? Should I hard reset ISY and restore a backup? Any other ideas?
Michel Kohanim Posted July 21, 2011 Posted July 21, 2011 Hi paulbram, If originally ISY said that you were in "Safe Mode" then in all likelihood you had a defective PLM (was this the case?). Now, quick question: do you have any v2 thermostats? I had an installation with the same exact scenario; they changed the PLM, added access points, moved access points and nothing worked. Finally, they just unplugged the thermostat dongles and, voila, everything started working perfectly. So, that's the first thing I would recommend. With kind regards, Michel
paulbram Posted July 24, 2011 Author Posted July 24, 2011 That is the LAST thing I ever would have tried! Sure enough, unplugging my thermostat adapter seemed to fix it! It's restoring again now and seems to be writing to the devices just fine. Hopefully once everything is restored I can add the thermostat adapter back and it will work. Thanks!
Michel Kohanim Posted July 24, 2011 Posted July 24, 2011 Hello paulbram, I am so very glad we found the root cause. I strongly recommend request replacement thermostat adapters from SmartHome. Once the restore is done, and when you get the new thermostat dongles, please remove the old ones from ISY and then install the new ones. With kind regards, Michel
nickcat Posted July 27, 2011 Posted July 27, 2011 Wow... this was the last email in the world I expected to get tonight... INSTEON Thermostat Adapter - Free Replacement Program Dear NICK XXXXXXX, Our records indicate that you own the INSTEON Thermostat Adapter that is in need of replacement due to performance issues. Please read the following information as your response is required to participate. INSTEON Thermostat Adapter Smartlabs has discovered a rare issue in the INSTEON Thermostat Adapter (Rev 2.1 or earlier shipped prior to 6/24/11) that can cause a thermostat lockup. This lockup prevents communications to and from the adapter and subsequently impairs INSTEON network communications. It has also been discovered that the thermostat set point can shift without user interaction. The problem has been addressed and a replacement unit is available for you at no cost. While most customers will not have experienced any issues, it is important that ALL customers use the new replacement adapter to avoid possible thermostat issues in the future. How to Receive Your Replacement INSTEON Thermostat Adapter Review the information below (make corrections to the shipping address if necessary) and reply to this email. Please reply no later than August 12, 2011. Ship replacement to: NICK XXXXXXX 123 XXXXXXX ST XXXXXXXX, XX 12345 Number of INSTEON Thermostat Adapters purchased from Smarthome (prior to 6/24/11)*: 3 *if you have made additional INSTEON Thermostat Adapter purchases other than through Smarthome, please wait to be contacted by that distributor. Your replacement order will be processed in 1-2 weeks after receiving your reply email confirming the above information. A pre-paid return envelope will be included in the shipment. Please put your old unit in the envelope and mail it back at your earliest convenience. Once your return is received and processed we will email you with a discount code good towards $75 off your next INSTEON purchase of $150 or more at Smarthome.com. We look forward to your quick reply. Sincerely, Smarthome I have had communication issues with my Thermostat Adapters, RemoteLincs, and AccessPoints for years now. I had to have APs less then 5 feet from my thermostats to get them to work reliably. And my RemoteLincs would work for months without issue, then fastblink every single command, even when I was controlling a dual band LampLinc less than 3ft away. I actually had two RemoteLincs cook the acid out 3 different sets of batteries in less than 2 weeks trying to communicate. I keeping my fingers cross this will resolve some of these issues without reason.
paulbram Posted July 28, 2011 Author Posted July 28, 2011 Wow, that's interesting. Unfortunately I haven't gotten that mail yet. My adapter is v2.0 so hopefully it qualifies. I'll probably call Smarthome tomorrow.
nickcat Posted August 2, 2011 Posted August 2, 2011 My replacements arrived today... they are 2.2, and were refurbished. Haven't done too much testing other than getting them installed and linked. Is there anything specific I can test/monitor to help anyone out?
andyf0 Posted August 2, 2011 Posted August 2, 2011 My replacements arrived today... they are 2.2, and were refurbished. Haven't done too much testing other than getting them installed and linked. Is there anything specific I can test/monitor to help anyone out? I got mine on the weekend. First thing I noticed is they no longer report humidity. You can query the thermostat to update the humidity but more often than not mine reports 164% for humidity. Querying enough times gets you the correct value but then it just sticks there with no updates. Other than that I haven't seen any supurious or odd traffic and I haven't had any lockups.
Michel Kohanim Posted August 2, 2011 Posted August 2, 2011 Hi Andy, Have you contacted SmartHome with the humidity reporting problem? With kind regards, Michel
andyf0 Posted August 2, 2011 Posted August 2, 2011 Hi Andy, Have you contacted SmartHome with the humidity reporting problem? With kind regards, Michel Michel, I haven't yet, I was waiting to see if others had the same problem or if it was just me. I thought maybe that since I was in Houston and the AC runs constantly that maybe the humidity was constant enough not to warrant a humidity change. But last night I did a query and it went from 54% to 50% so it's not a resolution isse.
Michel Kohanim Posted August 4, 2011 Posted August 4, 2011 Hi Andy, thank you for the update. Please do keep us posted. With kind regards, Michel
paulbram Posted August 16, 2011 Author Posted August 16, 2011 Ok.... so I'm afraid the news isn't as good as I thought it was. When I unplugged my Insteon thermostat adapter, things briefly appeared to be working. I was able to write some of the updates to some of my devices. However, it didn't last long. Most of my devices still list pending updates and whenever I try to write the updates to the device, I'm given the same error message. "Failed writing device link" [-200000/-51] My thermostat adapter is still unplugged, but it appears that is not the solution. Even the devices that do not have any pending updates are not functional. They work locally of course, but ISY is unable to communicate with anything it seems. Any other ideas?
LeeG Posted August 16, 2011 Posted August 16, 2011 paulbram Use the Admin Console to manually turn On/Off the devices where the updates were successful. If these devices can be turned On/Off successfully the PLM is functional. Try doing the same with the devices that have pending updates. If these devices cannot be manually operated successfully you may have lost an Access Point so that the 2 120v legs are not being coupled. Perhaps one was unplugged or the plug point was changed by someone not realizing how important plug points are for Access Points. If coupling is okay look for something on the circuits containing devices that cannot be reached. A new cell phone charger, new appliance, something that is interfering with selected devices. Lee
paulbram Posted August 16, 2011 Author Posted August 16, 2011 Ok, so it appears I can control devices from the admin console, even those that have updates pending. However, as soon as I try to write updates, it shows various status bars progressing, then eventually one final status bar comes up followed by the error. Immediately after the error, I'm unable to control anything right away. After several attempts it then starts working again. Here's my workflow: 1. Open admin console 2. Manually turn on/off device with no pending updates: WORKING 3. Manually turn on/off device with pending updates: WORKING 4. Attempt to write updates to pending device: INTERMITTENT 5. Manually turn on/off any device: NOT WORKING 6. Attempt to write updates to pending device: FAILS 7. Manually turn on/off any device: NOT WORKING -- EVENTUALLY WORKS AFTER 3 or 4 ATTEMPTS 8. At this point I can turn on/off any device 9. Attempt to write updates to device: INTERMITTENT 10. Go back to step #5 and repeat cycle So, it seems that when attempting to write updates to devices, things are failing and leaving me in a bad state. Eventually it is cleared up and I'm able to control devices. However, for some reason I'm having trouble reliably writing updates to devices. I have 3 access points (new PLM was my 3rd). I thought I had them setup properly to bridge both sides. However, previously I only had two access points. Should I remove one so I only have two again?
LeeG Posted August 16, 2011 Posted August 16, 2011 paulbram Should be no reason to reduce the number of Dual Band devices. With the advent of Dual Band being added to many device types dozens of Dual Band devices can be the norm. Once the point is reached where devices can be reliably turned On/Off through the Admin Console, run Tools | Diagnostics | Event Viewer with Device communications events selected (important). It sounds like a single command is successful perhaps with some automatic retries. Updates can often take dozens of commands or more to complete the update itself. The Event Log should show what is failing. It will not show why but knowing what is failing should advance the analysis. Also running the Set button tap process on the Access Points to confirm correct coupling would be a good idea. Lee
paulbram Posted August 16, 2011 Author Posted August 16, 2011 Here's a piece of the log as I was attempting to write updates. Note, I was able to manually control this just fine before starting. Also, it appears as if it was writing links properly for awhile until it finally hit something that caused it to fail. Below is a small snip. Let me know if you need more. Tue 08/16/2011 02:30:16 PM : [standard-Direct Ack][00.1F.A9-->ISY/PLM Group=0] Max Hops=3, Hops Left=1 Tue 08/16/2011 02:30:16 PM : [0 1F A9 1 ] Using engine version i1 for 'Staircase Lights' Tue 08/16/2011 02:30:16 PM : [0 1F A9 1 ] Link 14 : 0F88 [A212000000001901] Writing [....000000......] Tue 08/16/2011 02:30:17 PM : [iNST-ACK ] 02 62 00.1F.A9 0F 28 0F 06 SET-MSB(0F) Tue 08/16/2011 02:30:17 PM : [iNST-SRX ] 02 50 00.1F.A9 19.6F.4A 2B 28 0F SET-MSB(0F) Tue 08/16/2011 02:30:17 PM : [standard-Direct Ack][00.1F.A9-->ISY/PLM Group=0] Max Hops=3, Hops Left=2 Tue 08/16/2011 02:30:17 PM : [iNST-ACK ] 02 62 00.1F.A9 0F 2B 8A 06 PEEK (8A) Tue 08/16/2011 02:30:17 PM : [iNST-SRX ] 02 50 00.1F.A9 19.6F.4A 2B 2B 0E PEEK (0E) Tue 08/16/2011 02:30:17 PM : [standard-Direct Ack][00.1F.A9-->ISY/PLM Group=0] Max Hops=3, Hops Left=2 Tue 08/16/2011 02:30:18 PM : [iNST-ACK ] 02 62 00.1F.A9 0F 29 00 06 POKE (00) Tue 08/16/2011 02:30:18 PM : [iNST-SRX ] 02 50 00.1F.A9 19.6F.4A 2B 29 00 POKE (00) Tue 08/16/2011 02:30:18 PM : [standard-Direct Ack][00.1F.A9-->ISY/PLM Group=0] Max Hops=3, Hops Left=2 Tue 08/16/2011 02:30:18 PM : [iNST-ACK ] 02 62 00.1F.A9 0F 2B 8B 06 PEEK (8B) Tue 08/16/2011 02:30:18 PM : [iNST-SRX ] 02 50 00.1F.A9 19.6F.4A 2B 2B DC PEEK (DC) Tue 08/16/2011 02:30:18 PM : [standard-Direct Ack][00.1F.A9-->ISY/PLM Group=0] Max Hops=3, Hops Left=2 Tue 08/16/2011 02:30:19 PM : [iNST-ACK ] 02 62 00.1F.A9 0F 29 00 06 POKE (00) Tue 08/16/2011 02:30:19 PM : [iNST-SRX ] 02 50 00.1F.A9 19.6F.4A 2B 29 00 POKE (00) Tue 08/16/2011 02:30:19 PM : [standard-Direct Ack][00.1F.A9-->ISY/PLM Group=0] Max Hops=3, Hops Left=2 Tue 08/16/2011 02:30:19 PM : [iNST-ACK ] 02 62 00.1F.A9 0F 2B 8C 06 PEEK (8C) Tue 08/16/2011 02:30:19 PM : [iNST-SRX ] 02 50 00.1F.A9 19.6F.4A 2B 2B 21 PEEK (21) Tue 08/16/2011 02:30:19 PM : [standard-Direct Ack][00.1F.A9-->ISY/PLM Group=0] Max Hops=3, Hops Left=2 Tue 08/16/2011 02:30:20 PM : [iNST-ACK ] 02 62 00.1F.A9 0F 29 00 06 POKE (00) Tue 08/16/2011 02:30:40 PM : [0 1F A9 1 ] Link 14 : 0F88 [A212000000001901] *Failed Writing [....000000......]
paulbram Posted August 16, 2011 Author Posted August 16, 2011 Oh, and I double checked my access points. I redid the 4 tap/bright LED setup test to ensure it is on a different phase as my dual band PLM. It doesn't seem to be working any better. Still having trouble writing updates to devices.
LeeG Posted August 16, 2011 Posted August 16, 2011 Paulbram There are multiple problems. First the PLM address of 00.00.00 is being written into the link record. Something in moving to the new PLM did not work. What does Tools | Diagnostics | PLM Info show for the PLM Insteon address? Was a Restore Modem (PLM) done after changing PLMs? The second problem looks like a communications problem. Commands are being executed and responses being received until a command fails to get a response. At that point the update is halted. Perhaps some appliance is turning On/Off at intervals which is interfering with powerline communication. If there is a problem with coupling something such as an electric hot water heater or electric dryer or other 240V appliance cycling On/Off can be providing intermittent coupling if the Access Points are not working. Lee
paulbram Posted August 16, 2011 Author Posted August 16, 2011 I attempted a restore modem many times, but as you can see it doesn't get very far before it starts failing. I'm trying to get the PLM info now, but as soon as I did that, it popped up a dialog indicating it is writing various links... I wonder if doing this is attempting to finish the previous restore modem. So far it seems to be running, but I'll put money on it failing in short order. I hope I'm wrong and will post back when it's finished.
paulbram Posted August 16, 2011 Author Posted August 16, 2011 Ok. it finally came back with: 19.6F.4A v98 / Connected Looking at the event viewer, there are tons of "Failed Writing" messages similar to my other post. Also, many devices with pending updates still.
LeeG Posted August 16, 2011 Posted August 16, 2011 Paulbram The PLM Info is the expected results. Someone from UDI will have to comment on why the updates are writing a PLM address of 00.00.00 into responder link records. You did restart the ISY after changing to the new PLM? I don't think this is a communications problem with a specific device. Something is interfering with powerline communication when multiple devices are involved. Might try moving the PLM plug point by using an extension cord temporarily to get away from its current power source. Check other areas in the trace to see if the same situation is occurring. Note the time difference between the last outbound 0262 without the expected inbound 0250 and the Failed Writing message. The relatively large time difference is the ISY waiting for an ACK that never came. Tue 08/16/2011 02:30:20 PM : [iNST-ACK ] 02 62 00.1F.A9 0F 29 00 06 POKE (00) Tue 08/16/2011 02:30:40 PM : [0 1F A9 1 ] Link 14 : 0F88 [A212000000001901] *Failed Writing [....000000......] Lee
paulbram Posted August 16, 2011 Author Posted August 16, 2011 Ok, something is very wrong here. Either my replacement PLM is bad, or my ISY is bad. I tried moving the PLM to a new outlet using an extension cord, tried replacing the ethernet cable as well. Now things have gotten much worse. ISY is sometimes goes into safe mode, other times it simply throws up an error for each device indicating it cannot communicate. Seeing as though this is the exact same behavior as my old PLM, I'm starting to wonder if it wasn't ISY all along that is having issues??? Recommendations?
LeeG Posted August 16, 2011 Posted August 16, 2011 Michele Can you jump in here regarding Safe Mode. I've never encountered that so I don't feel good about making suggestions. With new cable and new PLM not sure if that leaves the ISY. paulbram If there are intermittent powerline communication problems replacing the PLM would not resolve the situation so they will be there even with the new PLM. I’m just not sure a Serial interface problem between the ISY and PLM (old and new) would present as powerline problems. I guess they could if the PLM could not reach the ISY to pass on the ACK that is missing in the Event Log. The new Ethernet cable is the Serial Port connection, not the Ethernet connection. Lee
paulbram Posted August 17, 2011 Author Posted August 17, 2011 I guess I'm not sure what sort of powerline problems I could be having. Nothing significant has changed recently. Also, I should note that my devices are commicating with each other just fine. My remotelincs, controlincs, scenes etc. The only thing that isn't working is ISY/PLM. I suppose I could try moving ISY to a completely different location in the house, but that's a bit tricky given how I have everything setup at the moment. I could try moving just the PLM and sending it over my in house cat5, but I thought I read someewhere that the PLM should be physically near ISY.
LeeG Posted August 17, 2011 Posted August 17, 2011 Serial Port connections have relatively short limits, 50' or 100', don't remember. That information is on the internet. Something on the electrical circuit where the PLM is plugged into the powerline. Surge/noise suppression power strip, UPS, PC power supply, CFLs, flat screen TV, cell phone charger are a small sample of things that can interfere with PLM to device communication. That was the idea of the extension cord. Moving the PLM to a completely different electrical circuit. With some devices working and some not would suggest something other than PLM as cause.
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