KPL buttons trigger scenes but not programs

[jimw01]

I am having a problem with KPL buttons which I wish to trigger Home and Away programs. Although they seem to trigger scenes with no problem, they never trigger a program. I want HOME program running when button G is on, and program AWAY running when H is on (mutually exclusive buttons).

 

I have tried both control and status to no avail - any ideas?

[MikeB]

Is the status being updated in the Administrative Console? What you press the KPL secondary ON, does the Administrative Console show it as being ON?

[aLf]

This problem (for me) goes way back to pre-Insteon products. The fix will cost you a few more bucks. I come from a family of Insurance so this is insurance to me. You need to buy an ApplianceLinc.

 

My program basically calls out for the status of my KPL button "B" which I'm not sure really ever enters into the program. But the insurance comes in as I have an ApplianceLinc that is in a scene with the KPL button "B". When I leave the house I extinguish the KPL button "B" that also turns the ApplianceLinc off. The prgram is written as follows:

 

IF

 

KPL "B" is OFF

or

ApplianceLinC XXX is OFF

 

Then

 

Run

 

"ALL OFF" program

 

Else

 

NADA

 

 

Keep in mind that the newer versions of ApplianceLinc are (supposed) to return to last state, therefore even with my (seems like always) power outages, the AppliancLinc comes back on as OFF and the program therefore runs as away. The KPL never has any consistancy to status. I can always reset when I'm home, but away has to be bullet-proof. I have not had any luck with KPL buttons showing staus reliably. In addition to this, I have the "AWAY" program set as "RUN AT REBOOT" . As a matter of fact, I think "RUN AT REBOOT" was designed just for this need.

 

This works and has given me many more hours of sleep since I've giot it working.

 

Good Luck,

 

aLf

[IndyMike]

jimw01,

 

After programming, "scenes" exist in the Insteon switches themselves. When a scene is activated from your KPL, the ISY isn't required (then KPL link table handles the communication).

 

That leaves a couple of possibilities -

1) You have communication problems and the PLM/ISY isn't "hearing" your KPL, as MikeB implied. Check your communications for errors - the the device status in the Administrative console and perform "query all".

2) Your KPL may (no longer) be linked to the PLM/ISY. I've had problems with one of my KPL's periodically loosing links. Try a factory reset/restore from the ISY.

 

IM

[jimw01]

MikeB,

 

The My Lighting list of devices only lists button 1, when clicking on an individual button, their current status is not correct, and buttons F G H show neither on nor off - the field is blank. Buttons 1 A-E show OFF but are not correct.

 

Thanks Alf, I was toying with that idea this afternoon, and found that running a program based on the status of the Appliance Linc worked only if I changed that status from the ISY GUI. If that status changed because some other function (gate opened) it did not work - even if I changed the status from off to on with HouseLinc it did not work - status changed was apparently not detected.

[Michel Kohanim]

jimw01,

 

ISY should show the correct status for each and everyone of the KPL buttons. If it doesn't, then, as IndyMike suggested, please restore your KPL. Now, this brings me to the next question:

1. How old is your PLM (what version)?

2. How many devices do you have?

3. What version is your KPL?

 

With kind regards,

Michel

 

MikeB,

 

The My Lighting list of devices only lists button 1, when clicking on an individual button, their current status is not correct, and buttons F G H show neither on nor off - the field is blank. Buttons 1 A-E show OFF but are not correct.

 

Thanks Alf, I was toying with that idea this afternoon, and found that running a program based on the status of the Appliance Linc worked only if I changed that status from the ISY GUI. If that status changed because some other function (gate opened) it did not work - even if I changed the status from off to on with HouseLinc it did not work - status changed was apparently not detected.

[jimw01]

I restored the KPL, no difference. Buttons F G H show no status, where on or off or % on would be is blank. Buttons 1 B C D E show status, but not correctly.

 

The GUI shows the KPL as v.29 - Houselinc shows 41(2.9). The ISY and PLM I just received last week. PLM shows ver 2.75.

 

There are about 45 SwitchLincs, 2 KPL, 6 Appliancelincs, two Access Points on different phases (I've tried them in several locations), and two signallincs.

 

I have had this setup for about 18 months, and all has been working well, but getting too hard to manage with HouseLinc.

 

I have also now noted that the status shown in My Lighting for some swithclincs is not correct. There are two swithclincs in the same gang box in my office. Status on one of them will be updated correctly, status on the other is not updated at all. They are on the same circuit, neither controls a load, only scenes. The scenes work correctly.

 

Status in the GUI is updated for the lights controlled by the SWL that the GUI shows correct status for, and status in the GUI is not updated for the lights controlled by the SWL that does not have its status updated.

 

Note: after autolinking the network using ISY, tracking links and devices, and then manually adding a few stray devices, all without removing existing links - I have not done a full restore devices.

[Michel Kohanim]

Hello jimw01,

 

This is indeed strange but we can figure it out one way or another.

 

As far as your SWL with the same problem, if it's version 23 and below, then it will never provide feedback to the PLM.

 

Since your KPL buttons provide feedback on some of the button and not on others, then I would do the following:

1. Please factory reset your KPL and then restore it from ISY (you imported the links which might be the cause)

2. If this does not work, print out the topology, remove the KPL from your ISY, do a factory reset on it, and then bring it back

 

With kind regards,

Michel

 

I restored the KPL, no difference. Buttons F G H show no status, where on or off or % on would be is blank. Buttons 1 B C D E show status, but not correctly.

 

The GUI shows the KPL as v.29 - Houselinc shows 41(2.9). The ISY and PLM I just received last week. PLM shows ver 2.75.

 

There are about 45 SwitchLincs, 2 KPL, 6 Appliancelincs, two Access Points on different phases (I've tried them in several locations), and two signallincs.

 

I have had this setup for about 18 months, and all has been working well, but getting too hard to manage with HouseLinc.

 

I have also now noted that the status shown in My Lighting for some swithclincs is not correct. There are two swithclincs in the same gang box in my office. Status on one of them will be updated correctly, status on the other is not updated at all. They are on the same circuit, neither controls a load, only scenes. The scenes work correctly.

 

Status in the GUI is updated for the lights controlled by the SWL that the GUI shows correct status for, and status in the GUI is not updated for the lights controlled by the SWL that does not have its status updated.

 

Note: after autolinking the network using ISY, tracking links and devices, and then manually adding a few stray devices, all without removing existing links - I have not done a full restore devices.

[jimw01]

did step 1. no change. So I factory reset the KPL after removing it from ISY, and relinked. It came in as a 6 button - so the reset worked. I removed it again, reset it again, made it 8 button, relinked and now all the buttons do show an on/off status - however it is not correct and when I press a button on or off, the status does not change in the GUI. Even after a query command to the KPL the status is not correct.

 

All of my SWL seem to be 2.4 or later. The SWL I was referring to above (status not getting reported) is v2.7.

 

However, while watching the GUI and walking around turning lights on and off, it is clear that every button press is not reflected in the GUI.

[Michel Kohanim]

jimw01,

 

Thanks for the effort.

 

1. On your KPL, none of the buttons reflect the correct status? Or only a few of them?

 

2. If you do a Query All, do you get any communication errors?

 

3. Do you have an Access Point plugged into your PLM?

 

With kind regards,

Michel

 

 

 

did step 1. no change. So I factory reset the KPL after removing it from ISY, and relinked. It came in as a 6 button - so the reset worked. I removed it again, reset it again, made it 8 button, relinked and now all the buttons do show an on/off status - however it is not correct and when I press a button on or off, the status does not change in the GUI. Even after a query command to the KPL the status is not correct.

 

All of my SWL seem to be 2.4 or later. The SWL I was referring to above (status not getting reported) is v2.7.

 

However, while watching the GUI and walking around turning lights on and off, it is clear that every button press is not reflected in the GUI.

[MikeB]

Just a note - when I've had issues with the ISY not correctly getting status changes from a KPL in the past, usually after major KPL reprogramming, a 'Restore PLM' fixed the issue for me.

[aLf]

Michel:

 

For what it's worth, I have had this problem since day 1 and that is why I went the ApplianceLinc route. As you know, this has fixed my problem.

 

aLf

[Michel Kohanim]

Hello aLf,

 

Yes, I do remember, but this should not be the case: all devices should be able to provide their status (group command) back to the PLM.

 

With kind regards,

Michel

 

Michel:

 

For what it's worth, I have had this problem since day 1 and that is why I went the ApplianceLinc route. As you know, this has fixed my problem.

 

aLf

[IndyMike]

jimw01,

 

I had something similar occur a couple of weeks back. My PLM suddenly went deaf.

 

I had been doing some playing with a Controlic plugged directly into the PLM. Afterward, the PLM would not monitor the status of any of my Insteon devices. All of the devices were functional, the PLM just couldn't "see" the communications.

 

I've had the PLM lock-up on a number of occasions. This was different. The PLM could still properly query and control devices. It just couldn't monitor them.

 

As MikeB indicated, a PLM reset/restore corrected the problem. Depending on the number of devices/scenes you have, this can be a lengthy process.

 

I've been wondering whether plugging the Controlinc directly into the PLM somehow messed with it's AGC circuit. I tried to reproduce the problem but was unsuccessful.

 

IM

[jimw01]

I was having communications problems, and relocated the Access Points, the PLM and ISY to another network location, put one Access Point into the PLM, and things are working much better. The KPL buttons will now trigger both scenes and programs. This is good.

 

However, the status reports are not correct. The on/off status block comes and goes on different buttons on the GUI - sometimes it is there and sometimes it is not, except for button 1.

 

Alf, as another workaround similar in concept to the A/L solution, would these two programs work:

 

Home Program:

If Control '0A.B2.36.G' is switched On

Then Run program 'Away' (Else Path)

Else - No Actions - (To add one, press 'Action')

 

Away Program:

If Control '0A.B2.36.H' is switched On

Then Run program 'Home' (Else Path)

Else - No Actions - (To add one, press 'Action')

 

I tried this using mutually exclusive buttons G and H on the KPL. It seems that now other programs can check for true/false on the Home and Away programs to determine the condition - similar to the A/L being on or off. I guess, though, if the A/L is in a scene controlled by the button, that might be more reliable - don't know.

[aLf]

Michel:

 

My KPL's all are the same. Today is an example. The house was alone for awhile. When I got here, only A (8 button) on all thee KPL are the only to show status. I can querry the others and nothing happens. If I then go and use the say "B" button (or another switch which is tied to it) then and only then does status show. And NEVER does any button other than a show up in the Status page of ISY, only in the switch list. I have never seen anything other than A in the status page. The version shows 29 on ISY, I did not open up a box to look further.

 

No matter what, I'm happy with my work around and the ApplianceLinc.

 

 

 

 

jimw01:

 

as per,

 

Home Program:

If Control '0A.B2.36.G' is switched On

Then Run program 'Away' (Else Path)

Else - No Actions - (To add one, press 'Action')

 

Away Program:

If Control '0A.B2.36.H' is switched On

Then Run program 'Home' (Else Path)

Else - No Actions - (To add one, press 'Action')

 

It should work OK, and I'm assuming from what Michel says, it should. But mine never was reliable. In addition, I'd rather only use one button, toggled on/off to control a program, especially since, in your example, bot G & H could be on at the same time. Not sure how ISY would react to that. Of course you couold write a program to turn one off as the other went on and vice versa. Again though why waste a second button on that?

[Michel Kohanim]

aLf,

 

You are right:

Since we cannot query the status of KPL backlights, they will not have any status unless you press a button once and from then on they will have a status.

 

With kind regards,

Michel

 

Michel:

 

My KPL's all are the same. Today is an example. The house was alone for awhile. When I got here, only A (8 button) on all thee KPL are the only to show status. I can querry the others and nothing happens. If I then go and use the say "B" button (or another switch which is tied to it) then and only then does status show. And NEVER does any button other than a show up in the Status page of ISY, only in the switch list. I have never seen anything other than A in the status page. The version shows 29 on ISY, I did not open up a box to look further.

 

No matter what, I'm happy with my work around and the ApplianceLinc.

 

 

 

 

jimw01:

 

as per,

 

Home Program:

If Control '0A.B2.36.G' is switched On

Then Run program 'Away' (Else Path)

Else - No Actions - (To add one, press 'Action')

 

Away Program:

If Control '0A.B2.36.H' is switched On

Then Run program 'Home' (Else Path)

Else - No Actions - (To add one, press 'Action')

 

It should work OK, and I'm assuming from what Michel says, it should. But mine never was reliable. In addition, I'd rather only use one button, toggled on/off to control a program, especially since, in your example, bot G & H could be on at the same time. Not sure how ISY would react to that. Of course you couold write a program to turn one off as the other went on and vice versa. Again though why waste a second button on that?