brians

Couple videos. First is iop scene and fails within a couple tries and loops. You can hear the second click delayed as it is not a direct association and goes through IoP. Second is group 2 association setup on PC ZWave Controller software afterwards does not require controller or dongle. Check out the response speed seems similar to Insteon. I can't press the buttons really quicker than that! IMG_8536.MOV IMG_8548.MOV

Here is Zen71 ZWave information if required: Sat 04/16/2022 11:47:49 PM : [ZW-SHOW ] ---------------------------------------------- Sat 04/16/2022 11:47:49 PM : [ZW-SHOW ] ZW 045 On-Off Power Switch Sat 04/16/2022 11:47:49 PM : [ZW-SHOW ] ZW045_1 uid=45 security=None type=4.16.1 mid=634 tid=28672 pid=40961 Sat 04/16/2022 11:47:49 PM : [ZW-SHOW ] Association Group ID 1 Sat 04/16/2022 11:47:49 PM : [ZW-SHOW ] - x20 V2 BASIC Sat 04/16/2022 11:47:49 PM : [ZW-SHOW ] - x5E V2 ZWAVEPLUS_INFO Sat 04/16/2022 11:47:49 PM : [ZW-SHOW ] - x25 V2 SWITCH_BINARY Sat 04/16/2022 11:47:49 PM : [ZW-SHOW ] - x70 V4 CONFIGURATION Sat 04/16/2022 11:47:49 PM : [ZW-SHOW ] - x5B V3 CENTRAL_SCENE Sat 04/16/2022 11:47:49 PM : [ZW-SHOW ] - x85 V3 ASSOCIATION Sat 04/16/2022 11:47:49 PM : [ZW-SHOW ] - x8E V4 MULTI_CHANNEL_ASSOCIATION Sat 04/16/2022 11:47:49 PM : [ZW-SHOW ] - x59 V3 ASSOCIATION_GROUP_INFO Sat 04/16/2022 11:47:49 PM : [ZW-SHOW ] - x55 V2 TRANSPORT_SERVICE Sat 04/16/2022 11:47:49 PM : [ZW-SHOW ] - x86 V3 VERSION Sat 04/16/2022 11:47:49 PM : [ZW-SHOW ] - x72 V2 MANUFACTURER_SPECIFIC Sat 04/16/2022 11:47:49 PM : [ZW-SHOW ] - x5A V1 DEVICE_RESET_LOCALLY Sat 04/16/2022 11:47:49 PM : [ZW-SHOW ] - x87 V3 INDICATOR Sat 04/16/2022 11:47:49 PM : [ZW-SHOW ] - x73 V1 POWERLEVEL Sat 04/16/2022 11:47:49 PM : [ZW-SHOW ] - x9F V1 SECURITY_2 Sat 04/16/2022 11:47:49 PM : [ZW-SHOW ] - x6C V1 SUPERVISION Sat 04/16/2022 11:47:49 PM : [ZW-SHOW ] - x7A V5 FIRMWARE_UPDATE_MD Sat 04/16/2022 11:47:49 PM : [ZW-SHOW ] - Secure Sat 04/16/2022 11:47:49 PM : [ZW-SHOW ] Sat 04/16/2022 11:47:49 PM : [ZW-SHOW ] Last working route from ISY to Node 45 - ZW 045 On-Off Power Switch Sat 04/16/2022 11:47:49 PM : [ZWAVE-TX ] [010400922D44] REQ ZW_GET_LAST_WORKING_ROUTE Sat 04/16/2022 11:47:49 PM : [ZW-SHOW ] - Direct Sat 04/16/2022 11:47:49 PM : [ZW-SHOW ] Sat 04/16/2022 11:47:50 PM : [ZWAVE-TX ] [010700802D0000EEBB] REQ ZW_GET_ROUTING_INFO Sat 04/16/2022 11:47:50 PM : [ZWAVE-TX ] [010700802D0100EFBB] REQ ZW_GET_ROUTING_INFO Sat 04/16/2022 11:47:50 PM : [ZWAVE-TX ] [010700802D0001F0A4] REQ ZW_GET_ROUTING_INFO Sat 04/16/2022 11:47:50 PM : [ZW-SHOW ] Node 45 - ZW 045 On-Off Power Switch has the following neighbors Sat 04/16/2022 11:47:50 PM : [ZW-SHOW ] - Repeater - Node 1 - [This ISY] Sat 04/16/2022 11:47:50 PM : [ZW-SHOW ] - Repeater - Node 2 - Living Room Outlet Front Sat 04/16/2022 11:47:50 PM : [ZW-SHOW ] - Repeater - Node 3 - WaterCop Sat 04/16/2022 11:47:50 PM : [ZW-SHOW ] - Repeater - Node 4 - Family Room Bird Lamp Sat 04/16/2022 11:47:50 PM : [ZW-SHOW ] - - Node 7 - Front Door Sat 04/16/2022 11:47:50 PM : [ZW-SHOW ] - Repeater - Node 14 - ZW 014 Lift Pump ZEN17 Sat 04/16/2022 11:47:50 PM : [ZW-SHOW ] - Repeater - Node 15 - Downstairs Hallway Sat 04/16/2022 11:47:50 PM : [ZW-SHOW ] - Repeater - Node 16 - Family Room Xmas Tree Sat 04/16/2022 11:47:50 PM : [ZW-SHOW ] - Repeater - Node 17 - Master Bedroom Lamp Sat 04/16/2022 11:47:50 PM : [ZW-SHOW ] - Repeater - Node 18 - Living Room Xmas Tree Sat 04/16/2022 11:47:50 PM : [ZW-SHOW ] - Repeater - Node 19 - Rec Room N Sat 04/16/2022 11:47:50 PM : [ZW-SHOW ] - Repeater - Node 20 - Rec Room S Sat 04/16/2022 11:47:50 PM : [ZW-SHOW ] - Repeater - Node 21 - Dining Room Lamp Sat 04/16/2022 11:47:50 PM : [ZW-SHOW ] - Repeater - Node 22 - Main Bathroom Light Sat 04/16/2022 11:47:50 PM : [ZW-SHOW ] - Repeater - Node 27 - Outside Xmas Sat 04/16/2022 11:47:50 PM : [ZW-SHOW ] Sat 04/16/2022 11:47:50 PM : [ZWAVE-TX ZW045_1] [8E/05] CC=0x8E cmd=0x05 [] ACK,AUTO,EXPLORE To=0x2D Sat 04/16/2022 11:47:50 PM : [ZWAVE-RX ZW045_1] [8E/06] CC=0x8E cmd=0x06 [03] ACK,AUTO,EXPLORE From=0x2D Sat 04/16/2022 11:47:50 PM : [ZW-SHOW ] Node 45 - ZW 045 On-Off Power Switch has 3 association groups Sat 04/16/2022 11:47:50 PM : [ZWAVE-TX ZW045_1] [8E/02] CC=0x8E cmd=0x02 [01] ACK,AUTO,EXPLORE To=0x2D Sat 04/16/2022 11:47:51 PM : [ZWAVE-RX ZW045_1] [8E/03] CC=0x8E cmd=0x03 [01010001] ACK,AUTO,EXPLORE From=0x2D Sat 04/16/2022 11:47:51 PM : [ZW-SHOW ] Associations for group 001 of ZW045_1 ZW 045 On-Off Power Switch Sat 04/16/2022 11:47:51 PM : [ZW-SHOW ] Max Associations = 1 Sat 04/16/2022 11:47:51 PM : [ZW-SHOW ] - Node 1 - [This ISY] Sat 04/16/2022 11:47:51 PM : [ZW-SHOW ] Sat 04/16/2022 11:47:51 PM : [ZWAVE-TX ZW045_1] [8E/02] CC=0x8E cmd=0x02 [02] ACK,AUTO,EXPLORE To=0x2D Sat 04/16/2022 11:47:51 PM : [ZWAVE-RX ZW045_1] [8E/03] CC=0x8E cmd=0x03 [02050001] ACK,AUTO,EXPLORE From=0x2D Sat 04/16/2022 11:47:51 PM : [ZW-SHOW ] Associations for group 002 of ZW045_252N002 ZW 045 Basic Scene Ctl 2 Sat 04/16/2022 11:47:51 PM : [ZW-SHOW ] Max Associations = 5 Sat 04/16/2022 11:47:51 PM : [ZW-SHOW ] - Node 1 - [This ISY] Sat 04/16/2022 11:47:51 PM : [ZW-SHOW ] Sat 04/16/2022 11:47:51 PM : [ZWAVE-TX ZW045_1] [8E/02] CC=0x8E cmd=0x02 [03] ACK,AUTO,EXPLORE To=0x2D Sat 04/16/2022 11:47:51 PM : [ZWAVE-RX ZW045_1] [8E/03] CC=0x8E cmd=0x03 [03050001] ACK,AUTO,EXPLORE From=0x2D Sat 04/16/2022 11:47:51 PM : [ZW-SHOW ] Associations for group 003 of ZW045_252N003 ZW 045 Basic Scene Ctl 3 Sat 04/16/2022 11:47:51 PM : [ZW-SHOW ] Max Associations = 5 Sat 04/16/2022 11:47:51 PM : [ZW-SHOW ] - Node 1 - [This ISY] Sat 04/16/2022 11:47:51 PM : [ZW-SHOW ] Sat 04/16/2022 11:47:51 PM : [ZW-SHOW ] ----------------------------------------------

Ok, I did another test with two Zen71 and a Zen15. The Zen71 act like they are in a virtual 3-way and also turn on/off the Zen15. Response is very fast, near instant. Even if I turn on one Zen71 from the PC software it turns the other devices associated instantly. In this screenshot, the Zen71's are ID 7 and ID 8. The Zen15 is ID 9 You can see how each Group 2 controls the other Zen71, and both are controlling the Zen15 ID 9. Still not sure why it requires the S2 stick powered on for this association to work, but maybe it just needs the presence of the stick to function, not sure if zwave traffic looping through the stick and back but it seems sort of too fast for this. ***UPDATE - I have learned that if I remove Group 1 association to the dongle from each switch it does not need the S2 controller plugged in anymore and switches are truly directly associated, not sure what other affects this will have (I can still turn on/off via basic set on/off within the PC software) but I am thinking it may not send updates to the controller, which is a feature that the PC software does not seem to have anyways so I do not know for sure. To compare, I then included both same Zen71 in my IoP. I added both as a controller to a scene in IoP, and the response is much slower - turn on and takes about half a second or longer for other switch to turn on, sometimes even longer and is inconsistent. Also I found it buggy and unreliable... in a few minutes of testing the following happened a few times: when I turn one of then Zen 71 on or off the they both start turning on/off in an endless loop (I had this issue working with Zen32) and I have to remove one from the scene for it to stop. Therefore scenes for just Zwave do not seem reliable currently in IoP. Therefore, I think the implementation of Z-Wave associations in scenes is not correct in current implantation of IoP and I hope that they fix this... What i have done is proof what is possible and If UDI can make the associations work the same way how I can do in the Silicon Labs PC software I have just tested then it will be amazingly fast! It seems IoP (and ISY too, but) is not recognizing Group 2 capabilities of most ZWave devices I have (others in this thread seem to experience same).

I believe that Michael805 was referring to an "ISY Serial Controller", which I would interpret as a Serial PLM 2413S, which are not easy to find. I don't think he was talking about Zwave. I just checked ebay and none currently listed but have been known to go for $400+. I did find this gem though... https://www.ebay.ca/itm/185381549545?hash=item2b2999f5e9:g:kTIAAOSwjS1iVEya Feel sorry for the current high bidder

@peterathansi did not write any configurations to either device other than set the association in the pc software. I have more Zen71 I can test - just didn’t have an easy way to wire up to test right away but will try this weekend. I would have to make an association on each one so they would control each other. Even if this way that dongle requires power, it’s still better than having the iop manually simulating a scene because that is more communication overhead through iop and back. Maybe iop scenes are already doing this internally and hiding it from us? (EDIT: No it is not - see next post)!

I did some more experimenting with Z-Wave PC Controller. Using an different test S2 stick, I included a Zen71 wall switch, and a Zen15 power switch. Attached is a screenshot... node 3 is the Zen71, node 4 is the Zen15 Note that in the Zen71 (3 Power Switch Binary) I created a Node 4 under Group 2 (BASIC SET Group 1). Node 4 is the Zen15 (it does not appear to support Group 2 as a controller itself). Now when I turn on/off the Zen71 switch, the Zen15 also turns on/off instantly. I would say it seems as fast as Insteon. However, I noticed that my S2 dongle needs to be powered on for this to work, if I unplug it the Zen15 no longer turns on/off with the Zen71... it is important to note that the dongle just needs power and the software Z-Wave PC Controller is not required to run - I actually confirmed this by plugging in the S2 Z-Wave dongle into a standalone USB power brick and the Zen15 still responds near instantly to the Zen17 on/off - unplug S2 dongle from power and no longer works! What is going on here? It seems that the S2 dongle/controller on its own is handling the associations' communication but this is contrary to what direct association means where one device talks to another without requiring a hub (EDIT... I figured out in future post how to make work without dongle now). Including a Zen71 to the IoP does not show any options for Basic Set This confirms that I can do basic Group 2 set using PC Software to control another device, IoP does not work as expected in scenes because the BASIC MC option is not available. Hopefully UD can explain.

Ok I will, I had a ticket open already for firmware and button state issue, so will just respond and let them know I returned it because of this. Seems like other devices they make like a Zen17 has independent on/off control for both of its dry contacts (think of them as a button/switch) which can be set to not affect the relays - they have the technology and I think they could just make a firmware on the zen32 that does what we want!

I looked at that and I used parameter 19 to disable physical relay control. I did not see anywhere where I could make the four little buttons stop turning on/off the status of the relay.

I posted this originally in support thread for v5.4.3 but I think it would be better here so I am re posting. Ok, I think I understand how it is supposed to work... The controller knows/learns what each Z-Wave device on the network can support regarding associations and keeps track of this for each included device. This Native Links shows this when you right click for that particular one. If you go to the top Z-Wave advanced Show all all native links then you can see all the Z-Wave devices at once. However, it seems like most of my devices only support Multilevel Switch, not Basic Control. What Z-Wave plus refers to as common association groups: Group 1: Lifeline (AKA Controller) Group 2: Basic Set on/off Group 4: Dim Up/Dim Down (Dimmers) After installing new update I was looking at the native links for my Z-Wave devices. Seems like IoP names Native Link Types as: Group 2: Z-Wave Basic MC (MC_BASIC) (is a Basic Control node type) Group 4: Z-Wave Dimmer (MLSW) (is a Multilevel Switch Node type) So now when you have a Z-Wave device and it adds multiple nodes it sorta tells what they do by description.. it makes sense now that we have this tool. Some may be named like this for example: ZW 014.2 Basic Control ZW 015 Multilevel Switch Adding these specific nodes to a scene will give you the appropriate option in scene pull down. Now my issue is (and I think that everyone else has) is that the IoP does not seem to show Basic Control nodes for devices that "should" have them based on manufacturer specifications and how they apparently work with other controller hubs.... here is example of what I mean: A very common Jasco wall switch that should support basic control does not show up any of this capability and only has multilevel dimming options... That shows it can control the listed Z-Wave dimmers I have included in my entire Z-Wave network eg. Dining Room Lamp. Now if I look at my Zen17 relay, it has basic control and it can control all of these.. Note the Main Bathroom Fan is direct controllable which is the ZW 033 node I showed above - seems it can respond to Basic Control but does not have ability to control other devices via Basic Control?!? And I confirm I can do this when I add the basic control node into a scene: Therefore, I am wondering why none of my wall switches do not have basic set control nodes when the specifications appear like they should? In the case of my Jasco wall switch, it has the multilevel control so seems that it should also have basic control, and in my research reading elsewhere, it is advised that you add the dimmer switch to both Group 2 on/off and Group 4 dim (maybe dim doesn't turn the switch on/off and need the separate control?). Is it something IoP is missing, or are these manufacturers specs wrong, or am I just confused?

Ok, I think I understand how it is supposed to work... The controller knows/learns what each Z-Wave device on the network can support regarding associations and keeps track of this for each included device. This Native Links shows this when you right click for that particular one. If you go to the top Z-Wave advanced Show all all native links then you can see all the Z-Wave devices at once. However, it seems like most of my devices only support Multilevel Switch, not Basic Control. What Z-Wave plus refers to as common association groups: Group 1: Lifeline (AKA Controller) Group 2: Basic Set on/off Group 4: Dim Up/Dim Down (Dimmers) After installing new update I was looking at the native links for my Z-Wave devices. Seems like IoP names Native Link Types as: Group 2: Z-Wave Basic MC (MC_BASIC) (is a Basic Control node type) Group 4: Z-Wave Dimmer (MLSW) (is a Multilevel Switch Node type) So now when you have a Z-Wave device and it adds multiple nodes it sorta tells what they do by description.. it makes sense now that we have this tool. Some may be named like this for example: ZW 014.2 Basic Control ZW 015 Multilevel Switch Adding these specific nodes to a scene will give you the appropriate option in scene pull down. Now my issue is (and I think that everyone else has) is that the IoP does not seem to show Basic Control nodes for devices that "should" have them based on manufacturer specifications and how they apparently work with other controller hubs.... here is example of what I mean: A very common Jasco wall switch that should support basic control does not show up any of this capability and only has multilevel dimming options... That shows it can control the listed Z-Wave dimmers I have included in my entire Z-Wave network eg. Dining Room Lamp. Now if I look at my Zen17 relay, it has basic control and it can control all of these.. Note the Main Bathroom Fan is direct controllable which is the ZW 033 node I showed above - seems it can respond to Basic Control but does not have ability to control other devices via Basic Control?!? And I confirm I can do this when I add the basic control node into a scene: Therefore, I am wondering why none of my wall switches do not have basic set control nodes when the specifications appear like they should? In the case of my Jasco wall switch, it has the multilevel control so seems that it should also have basic control, and in my research reading elsewhere, it is advised that you add the dimmer switch to both Group 2 on/off and Group 4 dim (maybe dim doesn't turn the switch on/off and need the separate control?). Is it something IoP is missing, or are these manufacturers specs wrong, or am I just confused?

After using Z-Wave a bit more... I have I want to update some of my advice after working with Z-Wave and Polisy, IoP. Do not use GE Enbrighten wall switches - they take 2-3 seconds to report their status back to the ISY/IoP. . A Leviton using Hail and query program is way faster than a GE. Exception is the GE wall motion switch updates fast less than a second. This is same issue using ISY994i and 500 series module, not specific to IoP. I recommend ZooZ Zen71 switches. They send status almost instantly. Zooz tends to have firmware support and updates also. If you have error updating OTW firmware on the S2 Zooz stick, it is defective and needs to be replaced. Updating firmware on the stick does not affect any of its included/associated devices from the IoP. If replacing a S2 stick using in Polisy, use the Silicon Labs Z-Wave PC Controller software and do a NVM Backup to a zip file from the old stick first. Then on the new stick do a restore, otherwise you will have to exclude/include all of your z-wave devices into the new stick. If you want you can periodically backup the Z-Wave stick using a PC whenever doing significant Z-Wave changes - until UD makes a backup feature in IoP. To perform OTA firmware update using the Silicon Labs software Z-Wave PC Controller software, uncheck the S2 etc. security option boxes when including the device to the controller... otherwise you will get an error when updating OTA. All the z-wave info is stored on the S2 stick... you can take it out of Polisy and place in your PC and see all the associated devices/nodes in the software - even send on/off commands to devices you have added in IoP. Because of this, you should theoretically be able to update the firmware of any IoP Z-Wave device by shutting down polisy, removing stick and placing temporarily in PC, and then running OTA on the device. I have not tested it but it seems like it should work, otherwise have to do the exclude/include, update on a PC, then include back on IoP (or try replace failed node.. I had that work once). (I have two S2 sticks so I can easily do, if you only have one you will have to get creative). UD plans to do OTA so one day this will not be necessary.

I experimented mine and had a combination of about 11 programs, 4 variables that would allow full updating of LED and status updates of local LEDs from other devices. I thought I had working and would go up to it and turn on/off a button and had it linked with another z-wave appliance module and a keypadlinc key... turning any of these devices on/off would update everything else including the Zen32 button. But I don't know if it was something with my programs or limitation of timing in ISY but every now and then I would encounter a race condition where it would go into a loop turning my test device on/off and I would have to intervene and disable programs. The main issue with Zen32 is that every button press has its own on/off state and it affects the reported on/off state of the binary switch back to ISY. It does not actually turn the relay on/off just the state. A query will read the correct state however and ISY will then get updated to the actually true on/off state of the relay. I attempted to work around this by doing a query of that binary switch whenever any of the five buttons were pressed, and I think that is where the issue was this method being unreliable. Even if it worked, this meant that the big button could never be used in a scene, because it would constantly be toggled on/off by buttons being pressed before my query would set it back to the actual state. I also set the relay to not turn on/off from the physical switch via parameter. I had a program that when press button 5 it turned the relay on/off... sorta a dumb roundabout way but all of this seemed to work 95% of the time and surprisingly turned on or off half second of pressing the switch. A drawback of this method is you lose control of a light in emergency if ISY is offline so this limits its use. I would periodically test the Zen32 using my programs, by pressing buttons on/off and would work, but every so often it would get carried away and start looping programs. I am not sure if ISY is not updating it correctly or reading incorrect on/off states from other buttons because other hubs don't seem to have this issue. I think it is because a custom device handler can be written to work around this and/or by looking at multiple z-wave events at once and making a decision, where the ISY everything is "locked" to a node and can only trigger programs/scenes off one z-wave node event at a time - what I am meaning is it is currently not possible for the ISY to ignore updating the binary switch node if it receives a control on from any of the other four buttons 1-4 (which happen to update that node internally in Zen32). I ended up returning it. If they isolated the binary switch from showing on/off from the rest of the buttons then I would have kept it and recommended this switch. Right now do not waste time or money on it and wait for something else.

I just updated mine from ssh and was 121 updates. Process took about 5 min. then I reboot. Only 4 or so look specific to Polisy (ie. pg3 3.0.56) and rest are regular FreeBSD updates. pg3 3.0.56 has more noticeable blue showing store production. What is difference between production and non production store (is latter for testing?)

@Javi, I deleted and re-installed and is working again. Just need to get rid of a foot or so of snow on my lawn before fully testing

I would like the PG2 web interface moved to a different port for PG2 only, then reconfigure the default page for a general Polisy page with the update and admin features... and could have links to PG2 and PG3.... or maybe just swap PG2 and PG3 for now, and add the settings to PG3. It seems strange to have deprecated PG2 as the default page, and have to use it for things like network configuration and to check for Polisy updates for PG3 etc.

The pg2 web interface check for updates and update seems to be same as sudo. It upgrades everything including pg3. It doesn’t seem to restart services so reboot after.

Yes and the customizations can be used for email also without making a new one... just make the subject suitable for pushover and it ignores the body which can be more detailed in the email. I only do this for real critical things like leaks and alarms.

I just tried... the send sys short with params seems to work good so far but have only tried one... Gonna start converting to that method now!

The program was not yellow, the program would run fine because in the same program it emails me besides sending me a pushover notification. I don't have an actual screenshot because I fixed the few that were an issue, but the line in the program where it has the Send Message didn't show anything. Here is a current screenshot of one of the programs and where I have highlighted in yellow it was just blank until I selected the line and update, save program. The reason I discovered this is because I was getting emails but no phushover notifications. I am moving everything away from the old messages... for one it is a big process if need to change anything - restart Node server, restart IoP etc. Other methods are instant and support variables.

@JimboAutomatesI just noticed that the predefined short messages did not appear to be working after the update. I discovered that I had to go edit the programs that use those and just update the line that had Send. Seems that adding in the Send Sys Short option broke a reference in existing programs that were set to Send and showed nothing and did not send.

Gonna attempt to write some programs to make functional but not sure what I want to use for at this time since I have 6 switchlincs already and sort of used to those. Having the main button state get triggered by all the other buttons really makes it not realistic to use in a spot where it controls a load using its relay unless I don’t care about its status in the controller. Maybe mine is not functioning correct - can someone else confirm it works this way.

I’m on 3.0.55

@JaviNot sure when it happened but the Opensprinkler Node server seems broken after some update I did. I do not check on it all the time because we still have snow, but I just noticed that I get a message to Please set or check open sprinkler password and IP Address. I tried removing/adding the Node server and the fields ipaddress and password do not appear as default. I tried adding via custom parameters and still does not work.

Also shows 1952 in event viewer LOL!

I checked and confirm I do have the new version and is working good even though the reported version is incorrect