Teken

You’re taking everything I stated out of context. I assumed the examples provided up above would drive home the disparity of how many companies do X vs Smartlabs doing Y. The short story is they are always playing catch up. As I referenced 120-277 VAC power handling / firmware support. Now whether or not someone can state with a straight face that this new line will be any better - that’s to be determined. I’ll give them the benefit of the doubt this is a new page. But if I open one of these things in the next two years and it uses all of the same $0.00001 no name part?!? Whelps, I’ll just rant about it forever on this forum and everywhere else! Because it’s clear they didn’t learn a damn thing from bozo the clown the during the first 20 years. [emoji2357][emoji107] As an aside I’ve been working with no less than 25 companies that are literally start ups. Of the 25 only three missed the mark on what I consider core (BASE 1) design and philosophy as it pertains to releasing a solid product. As I was given the opportunity to provide them technical feedback. Guess what ?? These three companies over night adopted and updated the next iteration of the product / service to incorporate the same!! That is the epitome of Lean Six Sigma. Successful people and companies listen to their customers and take critical feedback and resolve / incorporate. One only needs to look at UDI / Brultech. Two small companies interacting with the actual customers on a consistent basis. Taking problems and solving them while offering more features every freaking year?!? Can this be said of Smartlabs?? When the metric has been to take 5-10-20 years to fix a known bug. No, you’re not on the same level as Mom & Pop or anyone I just listed out.

[emoji2357][emoji1787] We like to be PC * Less than bright* [emoji106]

Nothing wrong in concentrating on core products that offer better profit. Everyone who is serious about business offers a Chevette vs Corvette. One is the bread and butter that brings in steady revenue streams. While the other offers more performance, features, all the while showcasing the companies technology prowess! What I take issue is some companies are able to offer a solid product that simply is a stripped down version of the same. There isn’t any less hardware quality just less features. Think ISY Series Controller Pro vs Non Pro. No where has UDI released an inferior product. All they did was offer a piece of hardware that is limited by software. At anytime the end user can (upgrade / update) the same by purchasing a software module / hardware. This is simply an addition to a solid platform! Is this the case with Insteon - no. Have they offered a path ever to upgrade any piece of hardware - no. So I’m not moved by comments that indicate *They are focused on the average consumer / bread and butter types* Because all of us were the Chevette type and gradually worked hard to save for a Corvette! All of us still have a grocery getter in the the garage! [emoji1787][emoji2357] As it pertains to offering more vs less. Again I’ll have to affirm once again Smartlabs has never ever offered more. By that they have rarely if ever upgraded any hardware to offer MORE. If one calls out 120-277 VAC hardware support whelps only an imbecile would say that’s a feature. It’s 2021 not 1976 because wide voltage support out of the gate addresses so many basic marketing and technical issues! You literally made a device that can be used anywhere in the world minus the frequency requirements. This addresses at a high level voltage sag / surge conditions. It allows the hardware to be used in a commercial space. Just this single example calls out something that took this company 20 years to figure out?!? Now the latest new to them (bulb finally lit up) in their head is firmware ability?!? It’s not like everyone else in the freaking world wasn’t doing the same?!? As stated 9999999999 times here the first person that gets these new modules should break it open. If it uses quality and properly rated components with low ESR / Temp. This is proof they have learned and can be taken seriously. [emoji106] If on the other hand we see the same $0.00002 parts inside, well. [emoji107]

[emoji2357][emoji1787]

Sad but true . . . [emoji3525]

Generally speaking this is true but this doesn’t cover all their current hardware line. Think toggle linc which hasn’t been updated since public launch?!? Still single band and continues to use the same cheap parts. The highest failure dual band switch continues to be the KPL in whatever flavour. Again cheap parts . . . Since the topic is about their new Nokia Hub, again history shows an endless failure rate that spans every single model ever produced. So if this Nokia box is $39.99 I’d wager it’s future will be the same! [emoji2357][emoji1787]

Agree if I’m paying ten times more you better get the basics right! [emoji2357] As stated so many times before these companies have the wrong people in the position of power. It’s taken more than 15 years for another company to release a so called KPL competitor yet still falls short to doing the same! [emoji107] I believe the true direction are those LCD / LED switches. Once someone produces a $79.99 touch multi switch that can toggle to show any number of buttons to X. Things will take off and competition will slowly ramp up. The fact it’s taken no less than three nobody’s to release the same just shows you how out of touch the market leaders are. Does anyone think Leviton, Eaton, P&S, Hubble doesn’t have the talent and money to release the same?!? It’s not done because they aren’t really focused or invested in the market in any serious way. Too many old guard conservative thinkers in the ranks. If people knew how many teeth had to be pulled for any of these makers to even tip their toes in this sector your head would spin off! [emoji1785][emoji3525]

From a three prong approach you can make a full ISY Back Up. Next back up the individual programs / network resources as they exist now. From there delete any unnecessary programs and save the same in those two steps outlined up above. A true test would be to delete everything like programs and import the same to validate this process works. I firmly believe it will so long as existing programs / network resources are not present. As an aside if you haven’t purchased a Polyisy this may also give you that needed room. As the Node Servers in their various flavours allows independent actions from using State / Variables and only focus on programs to act on the same. Just something to consider as you try to limit breaking that 1000 barrier! [emoji106][emoji481][emoji481]

Were you intending to import a backup on an existing production system or bare metal one? [emoji848]

If history is any indicator it incorporates every known (no name) brand component. It will have the exact same service life as the rest. As it pertains to price the Insteon (square) Hub was at $39.99 at different times for an extended period to gain market share and adoption. The BOM for this hardware is probably well under $25.XX. The vast majority for cost is for the mold for the UV stable plastic case.

100% Agree - For the record I’d love to argue with you! [emoji2357][emoji1787][emoji106]

If that isn’t the perfect example of affirming nobody does better than - everybody. I don’t know what is . . . This is why having a well documented open API makes all the difference in the success and adoption of something. Whoever took the time to reverse engineer the Insteon protocol and glue it with the developers documentation truly deserves every dollar earned / received! [emoji106][emoji481] Whether this translates to someone doing the same with this new Hub is up in the air.

I don’t see anything in that article that indicates anything. The only thing currently in place that will allow Insteon to continue on the ISY X platform is a PLM in whatever version from USB, RS-232. Several members have already proven both types of USB PLM can connect on the Polyisy as well as the 2413S PLM using the supplied RS-232 serial cable. If the so called PLM Pro is ever released this will allow everyone to continue to use the same.

The PLM is needed to integrate with other 3rd party systems / controllers. The Hub is both in one single box.

Just going off memory as this has been a very long time since doing so maybe something has changed?!? [emoji848] You’ll want to rely on a restore ISY as a first line of defence if something ever goes wrong. RE: Export it works in so far as it allows you to back up critical programs, network resources, etc. RE: Import works on a new bare metal image or controller that doesn’t have the same. Keep in mind the operating system does not call out or delete duplicate entries! Meaning if you literally exported everything. Moments later said let’s try this on my production controller. You’ll quickly find duplicates of the same?!? [emoji2357] Maybe 5.XX has resolved this obvious problem??? [emoji1785]

The reason the AP (Access Points) existed was in the past the vast majority of Insteon hardware was single band. Thus the need to use the AP to bridge and couple both sides of the (120-240 VAC) single split phase electrical in the home. Given one AP doesn’t work and you only have a couple of dual band hardware in place the Insteon signal is being affected. As others have mentioned it’s time upgrade and purchase a few dual band switches. Keep in mind you still need to confirm proper bridging / coupling as outlined in the full users manual as it pertains to completing the beacon test. Even if you see a successful beacon test it does not negate the need to identify signal suckers vs noise makers. These need to be filtered, replaced, or removed. Lastly, if you’re going to slowly replace some hardware do so where a dual band device is installed on each floor, outer wall, and by the service panel. Good Luck [emoji106]

Have you tried the AC for that specific firmware version instead of the universal Launcher?!? [emoji848]

Hi Larry, To be honest I don’t recall the file size and would offer to you it would vary with each person’s environment so that isn’t a good metric to go on. Sorry to hear you need to go through this process. Let us know how it all turns out good / bad. Get into the most comfortable shorts, t shirt, chair. Grab a tall glass of your favourite beverage and let the process unfold! [emoji106][emoji481][emoji481]

Truth be told Michel has stated his position about supporting any new hardware which is the balls in Smartlabs court to provide everything. I would prefer the team focus their efforts on the migration of the ISY Series Controller to the Polyisy. Ideally using a backup to restore the image would be ideal. Would also like to see the Polyisy OS update process hammered out where it’s reliable and operates as intended. There’s no reason for any paying customer to have to go into the shell to invoke override commands! Which leads to finalizing core Insteon PLM / Z-Wave support. This should be followed by a path where the Wifi, Ethernet, and BLE is capable of being used to extend the controllers integration with other mass market products. I purchased the Pro version because the company made statements this specific box would support the same. The fly in the ointment is nobody ever said - when! So if history is any metric it’s a long way down to seeing this hardware support. In other related threads virtual software containers such as used by all manner of things was discussed. I don’t recall if any solid direction was called out but would like to affirm the same. That this is a great concept and should leveraged as quickly as possible!

Oh don’t you worry there’s going to be a sequel! Coming to the UDI Forums Near You! [emoji1787]

[emoji2357][emoji1787][emoji106] Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

You’re probably the small handful of people who have ever changed my mind or to make me sit back and reflect upon ideas and topic at hand. I’m not looking for consensus but the facts as it pertains to a subject matter. If people come back with *I feel this - I feel that* to bolster their position I just tune these people out. When facts can’t and won’t be listed out everything is pure guess. Now, many of us including myself could be called out as to guessing on a lot of topics as it pertains to this original thread. As none of us know the balance sheet and debt carried. We don’t know how leveraged the company is or what kind of reserves never mind what the Insteon revenue generates per month / year. What we do have is recorded historic events and patterns. Anyone who has under gone or completed an forensic audit knows where this is heading! [emoji1787] These people look at the historic patterns as known to the public space. Because when it comes to business it’s always public! You sell a service / product that goes into the public space. This information is collated and all of this provides a snapshot and inflection point about something. If it hasn’t been said before this forum and many others comprise of some of the smartest and knowledgeable people I know that span every profession. [emoji106] I never expect to agree with anyone but always try to really understand a persons view or position assuming they make any freaking sense and don’t use I feel etc. Feelings are not rooted in facts so much as they are emotions driven by yet another emotion FEAR. Whether it’s a lack of information which is what, FACTS. To them no being able to accept the information presented no matter the reality of the same! [emoji2357] To me this is akin to the growing chorus of flat earthers?!? [emoji1785] Supposedly the people who believe the Earth is flat comprise of people who encompass every known profession! So this isn’t a true metric as to how truly stupid these people are. Yet this belief is growing and spreading. That thing which billions of people try hard every day to fine tune and challenge is called science! Science is deeply rooted in facts that can be replicated by anyone who has the knowledge to apply the same. And I’m not talking about junk science because lord knows there are millions of these so called scientists that are involved in science but are truly stupid. You can not have a reasonable discussion about anything when the litmus test is a flat Earth! [emoji107] Nor can you debate or discuss a subject matter when that person doesn’t believe in gravity?!? Really, there are people roaming around this blue ball and don’t believe gravity exists. I’d love to meet one of these stupid people and push them out a 30 story building and ask them later how’s that non existent anti gravity working for them?!? [emoji1787] At the end of the day loli and I don’t agree on everything. But I know he tries to provide facts and insight to a discussion and use examples to illustrate his position. Nothing impresses me more when someone can take a really complicated topic ( not this one ) and tie it to something basic that a ten year old can grasp! [emoji106] He’s still going to owe me 10 rounds when this is all done! [emoji23][emoji481][emoji481][emoji481][emoji481][emoji481][emoji481]

Why yes this is predicated on the same not exploding and being banned by who - EVERYONE! [emoji1787] Back on point I’m not a power user. I’m just the average Joe who is looking to buy hardware that is critical in my home. My expectations is said device offers trouble free operations for easily ten years and beyond. If the new Vantaa hardware offers this - Win! If not history will once again record and document this failure. If one is completely unbiased and compares any Insteon Hub to a ISY Series Controller. The percentage of failures regardless of the sales amount clearly shows it favours UDI. Outside of a electrical surge taking out the controller the top failures I have seen and read are: Memory Card, PSU, RTC. Given none of the above is made by UDI the fact they selected to the best of their ability what?!? Quality components to integrate with the main system! So any reasonable person would beg to ask how it is a company based on revenue is capable of offering a controller with such failure rates??? [emoji848] I mean Michel and team are smart as hell. But that isn’t it - is it? It’s just plane common sense, testing, iterating, validating, over and over. Again it’s not seeking for perfection it’s striving for progress! Both UDI & Brultech should have been called out as to *Who are these solid companies* when asked! But got squirrelled along the way. [emoji1787]

LOL [emoji23] [emoji481][emoji481][emoji481][emoji481][emoji481][emoji481][emoji481][emoji481][emoji481][emoji481] I heard you’re a light weight so take the first sip slowly! [emoji3516]

Whelps, the list is really long and didn’t know I had to pick your favourite! [emoji1787][emoji1787]The whole Volkswagen emissions thing was pure genius regardless how you feel about it. This is exactly like Samsh^t as they programmed their phones and tablets to identify Bench Marks. Once it detected these tests it would shut down different process and cores to focus on the task at hand! [emoji1787] I mean pure genius just to fool the idiots that buy their wares thinking it’s even remotely on the same level as a Apple chip! [emoji107] The history books just documents and recalls all the shenanigans companies like Samsung will do because they are corrupt and seek power and money. I mean it’s not like the head of Samsung wasn’t found guilty of bribery and sent to jail just so his company could receive favours and contracts!! [emoji107] It’s not like Samsung just lies to people to their face their micro SD cards have no warranty?!? I guess the freaking label on the back that says 1 ~ 10 years isn’t a legal agreement to the consumer?!? Google it . . . Apple didn’t fix a known hinge issue in the Mac Book for what four generation and denied warranty claims until - what? Being public shamed and sued by their so called values iSheep customers?!? Repair shops aren’t taking in millions of Apple hardware because it’s so reliable are they?!? Then again this is the same company who decides to kill your battery in the guise of safety! [emoji2957] Then the most famous another jewel to recall exploding Samsung phones! Every time I had to come down to look at a Mac Book and laugh at the user because this hardware is so much better than a PC. My comment was than why am I sending your beloved Crap Book away to be repaired and leaving you a PC?!? People need to stop drinking the Kool Aid. Everything fails, everything expires, but it shouldn’t be because you choose to do so for profit before people! [emoji3516]