Teken

I’m speaking about a train carrying all manor of cargo primarily. Next is the same using the same RR tracks. There isn’t a single train that doesn’t have human present. As stated the same has never been done for any (public) commercial airline. Even if we dial back the litmus test of a child. You’ll never see a hundred people board a plane where there is zero human presence - ever! Based on statistics rail is safer than planes. Air travel is exponentially safer than any vehicle no matter where in the world. So if air travel is so safe and Boeing / Air Bus have proven they can take off, fly, and land without any human intervention. Why hasn’t this marvellous technology been harnessed and used?!? [emoji848] If one steps back and considers how many possibilities they are for a motor vehicle to be affected by whatever when compared to air travel. It’s common sense to realize it’s not possible to allow a vehicle just drive around with out human control. Another litmus test is to remove the steering wheel. Next blind fold the passenger and have them sit in the back. You’ll never see millions of people step up to the plate. If anyone was serious about doing this I can safely state I have two test tracks that can be used to validate a Go - No Go product! The GM / Michelin proving grounds is world renowned for winter arctic testing! If any vehicle can pass these standard tests I’m in! Never, ever happen . . .

As it relates to so called autonomous vehicles roaming the streets. As noted several times the true litmus test is to see millions of children sitting alone in the same. Never, ever happen . . . This is why the same isn’t seen in any commercial airliner. To put a more finer point a train owns the entire track and literally has no one to worry about! Yet there isn’t a single example of a dedicated train on a rail line controlled by a computer without human presence?!? Let that settle in . . . [emoji2357][emoji1787]

[emoji1787]

I was expecting a lot more not some weak sauce reply. [emoji1785] Try harder young man . . . [emoji1787]

I was expecting a lot more not some weak sauce reply. [emoji1785] Try harder young man . . . [emoji1787]

I was expecting a lot more not some weak sauce reply. [emoji1785] Try harder young man . . . [emoji1787]

Why yes at a high level and it should be noted I own all rights to the phrase and trademark of Tekenware! [emoji106][emoji1787]

You asked me to provide examples - I did. I’ve had to reiterate (repeat as you like to say) because you seem to want to ignore these factual examples. I mean if you wanted more specific examples to illustrate my point - sure. Regardless, we can agree to disagree because I’m always right! [emoji1787][emoji106][emoji481]

I believe you’re going out of your way to ignore the basic question and premise. I provided and affirmed my USB Driver analogy not once, twice, but 3 times. Anyone reading my replies can tell I speak plainly and with the best intentions of offering counter points using facts. That anyone can easily understand and validate themselves. I stated the difference between the two OS from Windows vs Linux! That was one provided more standard drivers for USB devices vs any flavour of Linux! Yet your reply is to affirm what I stated twice?!? [emoji3516] Your none answer simply affirms what I stated. No, I can not take ANY USB device and have it work simply by inserting the same into a port! I have a 50/50 chance that it will require what?? None standard drivers not built into the current release of BSD you’re running! If I have to go into the command line and tell the OS to pull some random software just for a USB device to operate that by default means it’s not standard. Again, it’s not your fault or anyone else’s it’s simply the state of affairs of the industry as a whole. But, when you assert and affirm that drivers are not standard due to OS dependencies have you not made my point?!? [emoji2357]

I offered you not one but several in case you missed it: WiFi 6 / POE There are literally hundreds if not thousands of companies making hardware to support the latest WiFi 6 Standard. They each offer their own extra features while asking for a premium. Not just racing to the bottom as you like to suggest that encompasses all things. [emoji3516] I could provide you with endless lists of industries that follow standards yet continue to innovate, grow, and prosper. These industries fight tooth and nail to keep its share but grow them each year. Think Eaton, Leviton, Siemens, Pass & Seymour, etc. Each of these companies span high / low voltage hardware. They cover network, breakers, cables, all manner of solutions. Now whether or not a company is all in with HA depends upon their leadership seeing value in the same! Some companies just gobbled up other small players so they could rebrand and enter the market think Leviton. While others said we are going on our own because we can do better by offering more in sectors that make huge profit. Nobody serious ever gets into consumer vs commercial / industry if there’s a choice! This is why smart panels have existed in industry for two decades in some form or another. We are only seeing the same in the consumer market from the likes of Leviton because they feel the market is ready! While Eaton and others have been doing this since 2000! 21 years that’s two decades in a field they dominate because it makes huge profits. If that isn’t enough examples - batter up! [emoji1787][emoji106]

I believe you’re purposely trying to ignore my simple question. I stated early on and will affirm once again there is a 50/50 chance a USB device will either be recognized or it won’t. The root cause is many USB devices require what??? Supporting DRIVERS . . . I don’t care what people call it it’s known to the lay person as software driver(s). Whether it simply has to be pulled from a random repository proves my point! No computer system can natively support all hardware created today. This obviously applies to the Polyisy which is based on Linux BSD. The latest rage has been the Insteon USB stick. Did that not require updates software on the BSD OS?? It did and thus the entire discussion about why standards exists and the impact they have on the consumer. I’m not playing games or using semantics these are questions that need solid answers! Not whether a USB port has to go into the internet and perform a git pull blah blah. Because if it does, it’s not standard, is it?!? Standard is me literally taking my keyboard and plugging it into the Polyisy and guess what? It’s identified and works! Me taking a environmental sensor and plugging it into the same besides offering power will not operate as expected. Again it needs third party drivers that must be available on BSD or held in some repository server.

[emoji2357][emoji1787][emoji106] I have no words . . . [emoji1785]

Let me focus on what you’re saying if all of these standards exist. As of this writing can I take any USB device and plug it into the Polyisy and the same will just work?? More specifically without any other task besides insertion of said USB device into said port?? You have yet to answer this simple but important question.

Yes, and my position was standards will not hurt innovation or progress. It will simply make everything more compliant and easier to integrate with. I took the time to offer examples that anyone can relate to from cars, planes, whatever. Why?!? Because everyone knows these things and can relate to what is being discussed and affirm what I stated is FACT. It’s not conjecture or guess these are imperial facts that standards whether it caused others to be dragged screaming to adopt. Did what?? Adoption, progress, iteration of the same. Think USB spanning five generations to be at USB Type C Think POE to be at POE++ that allows crazy power to operate on super thin 23 AWG Ethernet cable while maintaining a 1G connection. I simply countered your assertion that HA standards would kill off competition, innovation, progress. [emoji1787][emoji2357] Now, if only Americans would move off the imperial system that would be progress!!! [emoji1785][emoji2357]

There will always be a need to install supporting drivers for X vs Y. A generic driver for common things makes sense and is in use for almost every Windows OS platform. The same can’t be said for the various Linux distros! Linux has come a long way but continues to lag behind Windows as to P&P. This is made worse as many companies do not provide Linux support for their wares. Some vendors have tried hard to follow the USB P&P standard so things just show up as a storage device, power, etc. I’m having a very hard time believing any of my USB Beacons, headset, will just operate without more drivers / NS support. This isn’t a fault of anyone it’s just how the state of affairs is hence the need for Standards!

Yes, not natively but required a updated driver package!

As of this writing can anyone take anything that has a USB and plug it in to 5.XX / Polyisy and it will just work?? [emoji848] I don’t believe this to be the case without a NS (middleware) or driver. Yes / No??

Hence the glue reference?!? [emoji1787]

Someone messaged me to ask to give some basic examples of round. Even though my reply was in jest to affirm a point. All round bar or tubing is specified to a standard based on its application and industry. One only needs to read the specifications for any bore that spans a rifle, tank, that fires off a round projectile. If anyone doubts the high degree of tolerance for a rifle bore / tank - needs to leave the discussion. As it pertains to fire depending upon application and industry there are standards that dictate how fire is created. Whether be from chemical reaction, friction, exposure. Man has mastered fire and moved on to the atom. But still does what with fission?!? We simply heat water to create pressure to turn what ?!? Giant round wheels / impellers! Fire / Round . . . [emoji106]

Fire = Hot, obviously people have followed the standard to make fire. [emoji106]

Yes, it rolls so everyone obviously followed THE Standard! [emoji2357][emoji1787][emoji106]

You missed the whole point about perfection as I replied to the other member. That was perfection is not attainable vs striving for progress. I offered what I truly believe is the closest thing man has used in everything we see around us. Now, people could argue round was everywhere in nature and man simply had to make / copy it. That’s like saying man harnessing fire wasn’t what put us at the top of the food chain and insured our complete survival! [emoji2357][emoji1787] There are no less than ten things it has taken man thousands of years to understand, grasp, or harness. Round / Fire are just the top two! [emoji106]

Everything you listed up above is not only a standard in their own realm but also not universally able to communicate without some kind of middleware whether it be hardware vs software. A perfect example as you noted is the Polyisy. At the very base level it’s an electrical device which needs 120 VAC @60 Hz. Nothing runs without electricity which in North America is standardized. If we build upon this this computer has several standards RJ45 / USB ports. The shape of each port was standardized and bandwidth of each was based on a standard. Moving on many companies have tried very hard to insure if something is plugged into a USB port (P&P) would ensure that new device would simply work! We all know this is a 50/50 chance that USB device will work / won’t work. I have high confidence that if I plug in a mouse or keyboard into that computer it will be identified and work! I have no confidence in inserting my head set, name any USB sensor the same will?!? Why?!? Because dollars to donuts it requires some kind third party driver. The same holds true to using any of the RJ45 ports. I can not simply plug something in those ports and have Polyisy see it and make it work. Because the middleware does not exist to make it so. So when I reference any standards it was to highlight the most common things anyone can relate to and it’s success for following the same. Now, I’m sure some may say HA will never be standardized - sure. That’s where we are now but it’s obvious many companies are trying to make their protocol the industry standard which everyone will adopt and follow. One only needs to see how the Z-Wave camp did just one thing and the casual effect was more adoption and entrenching their protocol to be the market standard regardless of how I feel about them. Encryption . . . This single addition / iteration allowed this protocol to be used in a market segment not attainable by any other protocol: Security . . . One only needs to see all the efforts your company has put towards the Polyglot OS frame work and the hardwares TPM. Encryption ? standards TPM? Standards USB / RJ45 Plug & Play to the Polyisy? Standard - Probably Not! At the end of the day none of us have the power to make anything a standard. It doesn’t stop us from discussing the same in hopes one day someone in power can and will take these discussions and make them so. Why do I hold that view?!? Because you’re a market leader and one of the companies that have taken the time to read, offer feedback, and in many cases have adopted ideas and concepts to bring us all where we are today. Both controllers may not be considered a standard vs the glue that binds them all. I’m OK with that sort of implementation because it’s something vs nothing that will surely never happen in my lifetime!

I believe the adage is seek not perfection but progress. [emoji106] I can’t say everyone seeks perfection vs trying their very best to design and produce something that is attainable and economically feasible to sell. Aside from Governments and the 1% of super rich people or companies very few things are built to perfection. One only needs to look at any power generation plant (nuclear). The entire concept on paper makes perfect sense in terms of so called clean and endless power. Yet we all know different designs and the type of fissile material has a direct impact to its long term reliability. Think 3 mile island, Chernobyl, Fujiyama, etc. Every disaster has been due to human error or not planning for What If scenarios due to so called cost. There is currently only one thing I consider perfect and the fact man came up with it still amazes me each day. Round / circle / ball . . . Almost everything around us integrates and uses round ball shaped objects. Think any wheel, ball hing, anything that pretty much moves or articulated. Every planet - star generally speaking is round. If someone were to take a liquid and spit it out into space guess what shape it will organically take on?!? Round . . . That is true perfection . . . [emoji106]

Maybe I’m just taking you too literally as to the whole standards thing?!? I’ve presented no less than five examples as to how and why standards first exist. Along with affirming standards in no way impede upon innovation vs sets basic rules, methods, process, so anyone can integrate. Anyone can see how the ongoing development of BLE has ushered in so many things not available to the public in the past. Think wireless headsets, location beacons, environmental sensors, I/O to computer systems. The latest WiFi 6 standard has increased bandwidth and capacity that previous generations could not. There are no less than five major companies making their routers / AP to support this standard which obviously hasn’t impacted anyone from innovating. My reference to EV’s (Tesla) autopilot was to show case why the lack of standards has allowed this incredible technology to be abused. None of this is surprising to me given mans ability to create vs fully grasping how any technology can be abused or misused! This time two years ago I blogged about how this whole stupid AI technology would usher in mans demise and make Terminators Judgment Day a reality. It’s only been two years and now we have robots & drones running around pretending to offer security or dropping bombs around the world! Man has proven there are only two things he’s good at: Taking & Killing In between this man has tried to create and build great things from art, music, structures, to every known thing to simply make life easier and fun. Standards are created and followed so others may do the same. When none of exists it be hooves us to fall back to industry best practices and standards. Will HA ever have one major standard or protocol?!? I doubt it, but the fierce competition in the future may very well strengthen one over the other. One only needs to see how cloud first has literally supplanted local first. Why?!? Easy, lazy, low cost, complete control over your audience!