Teken

My reply is geared more toward the infrastructure and future proofing the home when needs arise in no specific order. - Ensure dedicated and isolated power outlets are present in all zones, floors, rooms, areas. Doing so will reduce the likely hood of injected line noise being a problem. Consider installing 12-2 / 12-4 Romex in key area for outlets as this will ensure higher loads can be used when and if needed. - Run conduit in all key areas so this will allow pulling wire of any type easy and always install two pull wires. - Consider installing both Type 1 & Type 2 SPD's at the main service entrance and supply panel. This will ensure a measure of safety and protection for all of your expensive electronics and appliances. Regardless of Type 1 / 2 SPD's in place always deploy and use Type 3 point of use SPD's. - Security / AV: Always run the appropriate CAT6, Coaxial, RG6, 22-4, 22-2, 18-2, 18-4 wires in all areas, zones, floors, rooms, to ensure deployment of hardware is easy to complete. Never allow anyone to install CCA (Copper Clad Aluminum) CAT5e, CAT6, CAT7 wiring as its not in wall approved and does not meet industry standards and safety. Wiring should be in place to detect water leaks from the most common appliances and zones: Fridge, Dishwasher, Washer, HWT, Sump, Sinks, Toilets, etc. - Consider insulating all of the interior walls with Roxul fire proof batting as it offers density, mass which reduces noise, reduces energy consumption, and ensures stable temperatures through out. If your budget allows consider employing PCM technology which is the Cadillac of energy management and temperature control. - Consider installing a battery back up sump pump system or gravity assisted unit if your town, perish, city, allows. - Ensure the HVAC installer uses minimum of 5 wires for the TSTAT run but to play it safe have him install 6-12 wire bundle. - Grounding: If you have a say as to what kind of grounding system is used and employed insist upon the use of a Ufer grounding system. Essentially the ground wire from the POCO is inserted and wrapped in rebar which is part of the homes foundation and ultimately is tied back to the water pipe. This ensures the lowest resistance and highest area saturation for the ground plain. Much more but gots to go . . .

Both were great articles to read thanks for sharing. However I am not sure what the point you're trying to make? [emoji848] As I stated before my thoughts and views are its a combination of technology and human failure(s). Often times the leap in advances of core technology outstrips the human capacity to understand or use said technology to its full extent. A perfect example is the F22 Raptor which has been limited in its maximum capability to maneuver because the extreme G forces it can exert on the human body far exceeds what a person can endure. How does this relate to voice control? [emoji15] It's the very simple fact currently there is no method to authenticate a voice in the echo, dot, tap. Ideally anything that has to do with a car should require voice recognition, PIN, and challenge pass phrase. This method would be required for each session for how ever long it lasts up to a defined time interval. What I propose is very common and industry best practices. Lots of people can spout off why something sucks, it's bad, or God forbid the dirty words of DOOM & GLOOM! [emoji12] I come into a discussion to make people think. I offer insight and factual examples that directly relate to the topic at hand. Once that is done I always try to offer my suggestions on how to improve the technology / user experience. Like many here some have dabbled in Alpha / Beta testing in a limited fashion. For me I have been doing this in both work and free time. Having been doing this for more than 25 years it's safe to say I've been around. [emoji851] Having been honored by no less than 49 companies like Adobe, Apple, Auris, Autelis, Aquanta, Cisco, Bose, Brultech, DBX, Denon, DeWalt, Broadcom, Ford, Microsoft, IBM, Intel, Insteon, LG, Motorola, Nakamichi, Sony, Sylvania, Panasonic, Techniques, Honda, Toyota, Water Hero, Weather Flow, Xerox, Qualcomm, Rigid, ZigBee, Z-Wave etc. I've seen lots of things in my time. Much of this I am sure you can relate because you have probably done the very same. You and I pose questions, suggestions, observations, along with critical feed back about a product / service. Having also been involved with risk management, loss prevention, security in many fields and industries along with Information Technology I can always see the threats and weaknesses in a product / services. I've been doing dog food testing for years on projects that are still on going vs some that will never see day light. What I offer these companies are facts, user experiences, and human ergonomic failures in the product / services they design and offer. My views are voice activated control from hardware like the Amazon Echo in a vehicle without the proper security and protection will result in loss of life. ========================= The highest calling in life is to serve ones country faithfully - Teach others what can be. Do what is right and not what is popular.

LOL . . . Sorry I took your thread off the rails - I should know better than to enter a topic which gets me easily heated. Ultimately history is the victor as to how things all play out. As noted my position(s) and counters were supported by material facts not simple conjecture or what so many people like to call straw man arguments. No, the sky isn't going to fall . . . But certainly history has proven mans ability to create technology does not reflect the very fact *Man / Woman* more often than not have no concept of using said technology with in its limits and design principles. I find it interesting those who commented on the topic at hand when presented with material facts with supporting evidence. Never address them at all?!?! Its easier to simply say *Wow whats with all the doom and gloom*? If the entire populace simply inserted their heads into the sand and closed their eyes thinking problems will auto-magically disappear. What kind of world would We be living in vs those who are realistic and understand balance must be sought if problems are to be solved. Doom and gloom is the sad reality that in 2027 the Unites States of America will not be able to service its debt. That my friends is doom and gloom never mind if China should ever call in its markers. Doom and gloom is the very fact our society has literally enabled itself to remain in a tin box tens of thousands of miles away fly a drone and drop bombs on other humans with out any skin in the game. That is doom and gloom . . . Lastly, voice control has a place if used and deployed in a way which ensures safety, privacy, and security for all. At this juncture there is no authentication for Amazon Echo. One simply spouts out a command and that request is processed the very fact people can't understand this most basic element is quite telling indeed. Its safe to say anyone who is serious about human safety along with how technology has been abused and corrupted simply need to read the links provided up above. Those replying with single line replies clearly didn't take the time or effort to read the articles which outline all of the facets I stated. Guess it better to stick your head in the sand and click your heels wishing you were in Kansas again. Now, where that bacon?!?!

No, if you read my entire post and understood all the material facts I presented. I clearly stated several problems / issues which are the technology is not ready and there is not enough safety in place to allow such technology to be mass deployed. In the same vain there will be endless iSheep that will believe its OK like it was in the Tesla case to drive around not paying attention. This is a simple question: What was the persons only task while on the road? If you can't answer that this discussion is quite moot. As for technology I've been around it and use it each and every day so have some idea of whats happening and will happen. Because lots of folks like to start up or offer straw man arguments which never hold water. Let me offer a few more examples which anyone can Google should they feel compelled. NEST: In 2015 this company pushed out a OTA with out notice or consent and left millions in the dead of winter with bricked TSTAT's. When the first smart TSTAT's came on the scene I was one of many who stated wait for the Gong Show to unfold. http://www.theregister.co.uk/2016/01/14/nest_foul_up/ This was proven and undisputed . . . Smart Cams: Once again the market released cloud based camera systems which the clueless iSheep ran over to purchase and left millions of devices unsecured or allowed random pedophiles direct access to the feed to watch their children. This was proven and undisputed . . . Several car makers decided to enhance their vehicles with drive by wire technology. In Several cases the vehicles were hacked and the vehicle environmental's and power train / braking system were invoked. https://www.wired.com/2015/07/hackers-remotely-kill-jeep-highway/ https://www.wired.com/2016/03/fbi-warns-car-hacking-real-risk/ This was proven and undisputed . . . Tens of millions of Linux / Unix computers which at the time the so called smart people said had extremely low incidence or threat level awoke to the realization that this OS is like any other and exploits, viruses, trojans, malware, etc are ever present and at the ready to exploit such as Bash, Shell Shock, . http://arstechnica.com/security/2016/01/linux-bug-imperils-tens-of-millions-of-pcs-servers-and-android-phones/ This was proven and undisputed . . . There is no straw man argument here only the facts as they are. Once again my point is none of this technology on the surface is bad - It comes down to the proper execution and having the safeties in place even if its there to protect the stupid. Our society on a most basic level boils down to those who believe they need to be controlled (Nanny State) where as others believe in complete freedom to do what ever they like. Like technology some believe it should be pushed forward for all to enjoy with out actually thinking about what should be allowed and done. This is where we are now because the world is inundated with fools who truly believe its OK to automate every aspect of their lives when human intervention is required.

First my screen name is Teken . . . Not Taken, like I'm going to take the bacon off your plate. Once again I can't be any clearer on the pitfalls and obvious risks here and provided several examples of such. I've high lighted a portion of your comment and truly believe that isn't based on the truth. As my partner in crime Huddaduda likes to say when I enter a thread it will quickly go off the rails and sometimes on a complete tangent even though my examples are directly related. Several commercial Boeing / Air Bus air planes have been proven and tested to take off and land unassisted. These planes and the technology that allows them to auto pilot, take off, and land have been field proven for years. Ask yourself why if this is the case why is there a need to have two pilots in the cockpit? Keeping in mind there is more technology and proven safety in place to allow them to do so. Yet no commercial plane at anytime in history has been allowed to fly a plane from take off, cruise, and land via auto pilot?!?!? Answer me why?? Again, my previous replies clearly stated how any vehicle that is connected to the BCM / PCM which also has micro computers that drive by wire can be abused and hacked. None of what I have stated is pie in the sky its been done and will continue to be done on a mass scale when the hackers notice there is profit or amusement for them. Let me end this discussion with something very simple for anyone to answer: When a fully automated vehicle is certified to be allowed on the public road ways. Will you be OK to shuttle / fairy a baby in the back seat with out any human presence, over view, control, to the final destination? To stay true to form as Alex has stated: Only someone STUPID would ever consider doing so . . .

Once again you just highlighted my point - the complete and total reliance on technology. Are you a driver or passenger answer the question? Did the Tesla driver ignore what he should be doing which is driving! Did he and many other fools leave their entire lives on the table because they were too foolish in the belief this technology is fool proof, idiot proof, and safe in all environments? When auto pilot is first invoked a long aszz page tells the stupid what its intent is and what not to do. If this specific user had 100% attention on the only task at hand which was driving would he have died that same day? No . . . End of story . . . Ultimately *Pioneers* like Elon Musk are / is beside themselves because he wanted to bring to market something that could make life safer. Yet with any so called technology advancement or pioneering topic it has been abused to the nth degree. Because there are a large percentage of clueless people who truly believe physics & common sense don't apply to them.

Not sure how you define control as anything that has command and control of the PCM does. Any vehicle that drives by wire and can take over its basic functions is control. How do you suppose all the cars that have parallel park, hazard avoidance operate? You believe just because some nerd restricted the Echo to merely open the door that its extensions can't be hacked? These companies have literally shown the public if a vehicle is so equipped it can be interfaced with voice control. Everything starts small from unlocking the door, rolling down the window, starting the car, turning on the lights, setting the HVAC, etc. All of this can now be done via On Star while monitoring air bag deployment and GPS coordinates to render assistance when needed in a impact. There are several verified hacks where the devs showed how they took control of the brakes and adjusted the environmental's. To think people believe this function will strictly be limited to control just the items I listed?!?! Every company has an intent but we all know enterprising scum bags have taken advantage of holes in the system. Once again lets be crystal clear if a vehicle is completely automated at some point and integration like the echo are allowed to use voice control in its present form it will be easily be abused and circumvented. Everyday some of the smartest people think they have secured the nations computer systems against hackers. Yet each and everyday Government sponsored and independent contractors have proven them wrong. As I stated in many threads not very many hackers saw value in hacking into a Apple computer back in the day. Given it had less than 2% of the world wide market why waste your time for something that has zero relevance. Now in 2016 how many viruses, trojans, malware, etc have been deployed for Linux, Unix?!?! Why??? Because that miserable 2% from 1980 has grown to be more than 45% of the computer systems in use in all forms of platforms from tablets, phones, bank machines, etc. If people can't follow the final outcome as to what will be - its too late already.

Can't speak for others but I read the article. People believe using the Amazon Echo without any possible way to authenticate a persons voice to open doors, windows, start the car, turn on the AC, what ever novel idea they deem great won't have consequences? [emoji848][emoji849] There are people on this forum already and others who have enabled door lock control in their homes via Tap, Echo, Dot. [emoji19] Some of the replies from those who have stated *Not a problem, low risk, can't be heard from outside*? [emoji15] Really?!? It's been well known the rarest element in the multiverse has been common sense. [emoji53] Forest Gump: Stupid is - Is stupid does . . . [emoji55][emoji21] ========================= The highest calling in life is to serve ones country faithfully - Teach others what can be. Do what is right and not what is popular.

Each and everyone of us are here because of the love of technology and what it brings to our lives. Most of us embrace it with open arms because it provides features, options, capabilities never seen before in the past. I am not opposed to any of these technologies on the surface but the reality is in its current iteration there is not enough safety in place to protect the stupid. Sadly, its not so much the stupid that needs to be protected but the millions of innocent bystanders minding their own business. Today there are thousands of traffic stops, tickets, citations, given out to distracted drivers texting on their phone, listening to their booming music, to imbeciles actually watching a movie while driving. To think so called smart people think adding in another element of auto driving and voice control is the next best thing since sliced bread is quite shocking. All of these technologies like parallel parking was created for the inept and stupid who clearly can not drive and should never be allowed on the road ways. A vehicle that measures distance and takes control of the breaks and the steering wheel? Again, this is for the stupid who forget driving is a privilege which requires 100% of your faculty and attention span. Not 10%, 20%, 50%, one hundred percent! When topics like this come up its analogous of people saying guns killed people. No, stupid . . . People with guns kill people . . . Then there are people who have no self control or common sense and decide to get behind a wheel instead of calling a taxi and decide to drive. Nobody has to guess how many people die a year due to drunk drivers because of the human element. People actually believe just because some computer is in place the roads will be safer?!? No . . . Because as I illustrated this stupid fool who is supposed to be touching, holding, the steering wheel is supposed to be focused at driving. But instead was probably dicking around when he ended up as a smear on the ground! I can only imagine how many freaks there will be on the roads picking their nose, applying make up, or texting, while they believe the smart car is supposed to be driving on their behalf. As many have said before I - let the natural course of order take place . . . The Tesla driver was natures way of taking its course.

Hello Bert, Have you tried to implement some of the tips and suggestions offered in the UDI Wiki? Would you be able to offer some insight as to how many ALL ON / ALL OFF conditions you have encountered this year? With respect to phase couplers I don't have any real issues using one vs the other. Besides the fact a plugin unit offers more flexibility and repeats Insteon RF signals and bolsters them. A hardwired phase coupler only repeats the power line signal and does not boost the signal if required. A whole house surge protector is absolutely needed as one of the primary means to protect the home and its valuable electronics please consider reinstalling it. With respect to (newer) Insteon hardware they offer confirmation of signal sent and received. It also offer the ability to know if there was an error while other features are turning on / off RF & Power Line signaling. Others are smart hop, send cleanup messages, etc. Lastly can you offer more insight about how you're using the GEM / ISY for the above unless I misunderstood?

Yes, one is supposed to do so but in this case it was *Human* that failed to complete this task. Driving is a privilege and requires years of skill and complete awareness at all times. Currently there are several brands of vehicles which can parallel park, auto park, drive, etc. If people want all of the above its call a freaking taxi, limo, uber . . . This whole automated driving and remote control via voice is just a disaster waiting to happen. The fact there needs to be a body count for the stupid to realize this technology isn't needed or required is incredible. The reality is no matter how smart the vehicle is it can never compensate for the human element of stupid or the very fact the infrastructure is not present to ensure a measure of fail over.

This great to see along with self driving vehicles soon to be released from the various car manufactures. I just can't wait for someone to die because the millennial babies thought it was a great idea. Oooooooooooops, it already has . . . https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2016/jul/13/tesla-autopilot-investigation-fatal-crash The very fact large corporations with thousands of employees along with armies of lawyers still believe its a great idea to allow voice control of a moving object. Clearly shows how incredibly stupid people are and continue to be in this era.

This sounds to me like a good feature request to UDI. Perhaps you can pose the question and see what the feed back is - keeping in mind a strong business case is the only way to make the point.

Hello Orest, That's really great to hear and thanks for sticking it out to try. Please ensure you test and validate this sensor over the next few months to ensure it continues to operate as expected. As an aside its always best practice to hard reset all new Insteon hardware from the factory. Doing so ensures the device is reset to a OEM state, removes half links, and test programming that may be present.

Understood, and some of the items you indicated I also tried with out success. I've blogged about this odd behavior for what seems like forever but its safe to say when the system is finally migrated to HTML5. That will be at least one area we can strike off the list as being Java related. For all we know its the endless Java updates over the last 24 months but who really knows? What I do know is in the past I could leave the console open for days with out issues. Now, my sessions mirror yours and you simply don't ever know if the console is live or off line. The whole refreshing thing is just a band aid and doesn't give me the warm fuzzy at all. Because if you have to press the refresh you already know your sessions isn't actually live.

Please also measure the battery to ensure its at the proper voltage level even though it stated as having a 10 year service life. Smartlabs has indicated a few bad cells have been installed over the last few quarters.

Hey Larry, As indicated to Orest I would ensure all the above possibilities have been tracked which I listed above. As a data point during my Alpha / Beta trials for Brultech it was found the module that sends state variables to the controller caused the system to freeze. Once this issue was identified by me and relayed to Brultech a break fix was released. As of this writing my ISY Series Controller has been up and running with out the need for a hard reboot for 2261 hours or (94 days). In the past I would be hard pressed to see the controller make it past 3-7 days of service.

Excellent, keep the group updated on the final outcome . . .

Hello Orest, For the sake of asking you would please follow the steps outlined by Stu and hard reset the new leak sensor which doesn't seem to be operating correctly. At least if you do this step you will know its defective or not - It would also save the time shipping the product back . . .

Hello Orest, This is a known issue and to date there is no final solution to resolve this matter. My statement assumes this is not a firewall, anti-virus, pop up blocker, incorrect Admin Console, out of date Java, white listing related issue(s). Other reasons for the Admin Console to lose connection is (IF) there are socket connections which have lots of inbound traffic to the ISY Series Controller. Lastly, when there are lots of active programs running this can also cause the controller to appear to be slow or none responsive.

I would humbly suggest you use a personal SMTP address instead of the *Default* one being offered by UDI. As its been known to be over loaded, down, etc. Most folks create a dedicated GMAIL account just for the ISY Series Controller. Doing so ensures this SMTP address has only one goal and that is to send alert messages.

Hello Orest, It seems you aren't having much luck as of late with some of the hardware on hand. If the leak sensor does not trip / blink at all when placed in a plate of water. Its best you send it back for a RMA via cross dock so you can receive one right away.

Some of the units will require you place it in a body of water as simply dabbing the metal feet doesn't always illicit the correct response.

Hello Orest, Is your controller a 99 or 994 Series Controller?

I don't believe the diagnostic keypad has as much relevance given the latest hardware offers many of same LED feed back.