lilyoyo1

Not a good analogy. You're not even comparing apples to oranges with this. For starters; you're comparing a 5-6 figure purchase to a 30 dollar app. Due to the cost of cars, GM must provide parts for them long term otherwise people wouldnt buy them...Besides that, federal law mandates that they make parts available for at least 10 years so there's that as well (there are a multitude of other reasons as well). In answer to your question though, If I had a 30 year old vehicle, I wouldnt expect much to be available from the mfg themselves. Maybe 3rd party but not them. I wasn't urging you to migrate. I was simply responding to your statement and pointing out that the longer you wait, the more difficult it becomes. That's why I asked you if you have the 99 (like you said) or the 994. If you have the 99, the upgrade process may not (most likely isn't) as straight forward as would be with the 994. That is something you will want to look into since it may require a complete system rebuild. You are correct in regards to new vs existing customers. However, ROI is still at play which is why I stated what I did in previous replies. UDI is top notch when it comes to engaging with their user base. However, that doesnt necessarily mean they'll give them what they want. It can be listening to concerns and implementing things in future versions. Most companies do not look backwards in that manner. Being in the business of making money, they'll still look at the pros and cons before proceeding. In this particular case, they have no control over Mobilinc as it's someone else's product and it makes no sense from a time and financial sense to redo everything for it. In addition, UDI is doing exactly what you state. When they released their new products, they offered existing members discounts to help lower the cost so that they would be willing to purchase the new systems. They developed their own app to address complaints and desires from their user base (for free I might add). Where did I say anything like this? Please re-read my statement for context. I was speaking clearly from a business standpoint in regards to backwards to update discontinued products (especially one they have no control over) to provide something for a customer. That doesnt mean they do not care about you. It means the amount of time, money, and energy doesnt make it worthwhile. UDI definitely cares about all of its customers (existing and future). They show this constantly with their actions. Make no mistake about it though- business is still transactional and not buddy buddy. You've only supported UDI over the years because what they offered fit your needs and worked out well for you. So while they do care and will do whatever they can to assist us, there does come a point where it makes sense to say no and move on. It is fair for you to hope and ask. But it still isnt on UDI to provide for 3rd party products. Since you used cars we'll stick with that. If I put 3rd party products in my car, can I expect Genesis to support them and provide a fix for me?

UDI makes products for themselves and their needs. If a 3rd party company wants their items to work with it then it's on that 3rd party company to adapt and update their system for it. All that you wrote is pretty much irrelevant. It comes down to business. Since you work in software development, what financial gain does UDI have to support multiple 3rd party portals that they do not profit from?! Why rewrite their software for 1 developer? What's the advantage financially, especially considering it's for an eol product?!. What do they do when someone else decides to make an app and develop their own portal? The what ifs keeps going and going.... From a business perspective with Wes; it makes zero sense for him to update Mobilinc when his latest work is mobilinc x. Why update an old unsupported app to work with new products when there is no financial gain from it? Especially considering said company is developing their own FREE app (though mobilinc x interface looks much better).... Reality is that mobilinc is dead. It's awesome that it still works for you but reality is- it doesn't have a future. No one will work for free to constantly update it when the money has already been made from it. I'm not sure if you're using the 99 or 994 (you keep saying 99) but both are pretty much disco'd (though the 994 will continue to receive security updates for the time being). While you may need to do a lot of testing, waiting will only add more time and make it worse if you do plan on changing systems in the future. Rock solid is great for historical purposes but being updated matter a great deal as well...time stands still for no one.

Prices stay down but where's the improvements in usability. Just a bunch of people making the same devices that do the same things. The more expensive zwave devices usually have additional benefits and costs more and are equal to insteon in price...if not more (see fibaro, aeotec, Eaton, and homeseer)

I feel your pain. It's the unfortunate side of technology. As things progress, the old gets left behind (here's looking at my Sonos upgrades). One of the things I've recommended over the years is to have all of your integrations go through your controller. This way, should you decide to change apps for whatever reason, you aren't in a position to have to rebuild your system all over again unless you decide to use someone else's system

It was moved because mobilinc is a 3rd party product outside of UDI's control and that's where it belongs. If you want an answer from the developer (which is the best resource) he needs to see it. Wes may or may not peruse all forums which means there's a 100% chance your question would go unanswered. UDI finally offering their own app allows them full control over what's supported or not. They don't have to worry about questions/comments about whether a system or firmware is supported because they're building it vs waiting on someone else to do so. With that said, once mobilinc x was released, development of mobilinc was disco'd. Only the developer @InsteonNutcan answer that.

Are you certain? There can be different firmwares for exactly the same product (heres looking at you fibaro, dome, ge, Eaton, and a couple more). In the zwave world, there is a difference between an actual zwave scene capable controller and a device that can control another device via the isy. If everything is exactly the same then I dont have an answer for you.

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I understand what you are saying but there really isnt a good answer. Neither I nor mr bill is out to purposely offend anyone. However, it does fall on the individual user to keep up with whats happening. It is their right not to stay on top of things but then they can only blame themselves when they do not know or understand what is going on. Take UDI's app. When it was first released, I hated it. Havent used it since. If I tried to use it now, is it on me or UDI when I don't realize or know whats been added or changed? At this point, I would be combing through tons of posts and instructions trying to learn about something that couldve been made much easier had I taken 10 minutes out the week to check in on things from time to time. It actually does mean he wasn't paying attention. Whether we like it or not, the ISY has a large impact on our lives. His frustration shows how much it impacts us; so why wouldnt we try to dedicate 10 minutes out of the week just to check in? A person can click unread content and see what they've missed in less than 5 minutes. Udi made it clear from the start that PG2 was only temporary. PG3 was always the next step and pg2 would be going away. This was stated repeatedly time after time. PG2 was never meant to be a forever solution and reality is, there will be a pg4 at some point just like there will be an eisy2. Even when PGC died, UDI sent out an email in addition to their website and forum. If he ignored the emails (perhaps uses a junk email account for access), then thats still on him and not UDI. We are always willing to help others but sometimes, people also have to be willing to help themselves. As I stated earlier, they dont have to do so but they also shouldnt complain about not being up to date either.

You may want to read mine and @MrBillstatement for context. We didn't say anything needing to constantly manage the Isy itself. Our statements pertained to udi and changes that they make to their systems and operations. Babysitting the isy and keeping up with what's going on in the Isy world are 2 different things. You don't need to babysit your system when it's running well and you have no desire to add anything or make changes. However, while your system may stay the same; UDI is moving forward. Take work for example. You go in everyday and do the same thing. Do you not attend meetings and read emails to keep up with things that may change? If you skipped every meeting or never read your emails (outside of someone telling you), how would you know when policy changes or system upgrades happen? The same thing applies to UDI and automation in general. As the automation world changes, they have to keep up. Individuals demand new features and capabilities. If they don't provide customers move on. In short, the isy and subsequent systems are set and forget systems. No vigilance or maintenance needed. One can set, forget and never look at anything else again. But the rest of the world (and UDI) still moves on. When a person is ready to do something different, who does it fall on when they feel lost due to the multitude of changes?

Your switch may be an actual scene controller (not all zwave devices are scene controllers).

The same as for scenes. Red is for controllers only. Blue is for responders/controllers. Your sensor can only be a controller which is why it's red.

Generally with advanced products, it's on the consumer to keep up as things can change significantly in addition to the capabilities and flexibility it provides. Its easy to sight of everything that's going on causing one to be overwhelmed and frustrated. It's ok to wait for a finished product but even then, the constant changes that happens causes you to end up in an endless vicious cycle of learning and relearning. While UDI can have pages upon pages of tutorials and how to's, the shear amount of information can and will be overwhelming. This is why it's better to stay involved and on top of things. If that's not what you choose to do, you only have yourself to blame for feeling lost. So, what you're saying is that there is no way to connect my ISY994i to a polyglot server online any longer. Right? This is correct. The 994 is disco'd so no further development will be had with it. Once eisy is released, you'd be able to use that to connect to polyglot and access node servers And the only way to do so is by installing PG2 it on a Pi or Linux machine and going that route or buying the old Polisy (ha! I thought this would be the new device going forward. I was fooled) Polisy was a new device at the time for the future when it was initially released a little over 3 years ago. At that time, COVID wasn't a thing, the world wasn't upended in shortages that caused most things to be out of stock, Insteon was a thing, nor was inflation out of control. It was literally a completely different world in all facets of life. Just like virtually every other company, UDI had to pivot which they did. In the grand scheme of things, a 10+year life cycle of a product such as the 994 is a thing of the past. Sit on the sidelines long enough, eisy 2, 3, and 4 will be coming out. That's the name of the game. The great thing is; unless you want to take advantage of newer capabilities any system adds, your current system would continue to operate. And I assume that since UD isn't selling the Polisy any longer, there won't be any development. I'll wait till you guys get the new eisy. You'd be wrong in your assumption. Polisy and eisy will be developed in tandem going forward. The only thing left behind will be the 994 I feel it would be better to create something that doesn't require UDI to produce hardware for. Something that can run in docker or K8s or just on a Pi. I'm not understanding this. You complain about having to use an Rpi for polyglot but then say UDI should create software for users to run on an Rpi. Sure, UDI can do that. However, should you run into any issues, who will you turn to for help? By creating the hardware to run their system, UDI has a way to controlled medium to assist. If they leave it to end users, they'll end up with many more customers complaining about having to be able to get something up and running on their Rpi. This is amplified by the number of users that lack the technical skills to even do so. At the end of the day, they're in the business of making money not losing it. Having to help end users troubleshoot stuff or set things up with different systems is costly. The Wiki and forum don't have an easy way to find that this functionality is just gone unless you use a Pi. Sorry, without the knowledge you guys have for years, finding stuff that's still relevant on UDI isn't easy. I'll go the Pi route. Nothing is gone in regards to the path someone wants to take. Products are out of stock not abandoned. While polisy is no more, there is a new system on the horizon that's been talked about countless times. If one chooses not to be engaged with what's going on, they can't really complain about not knowing what's going on. It's like that for anything in life. This is no different. Sorry, I may sound frustrated because I am now. I love my ISY but it seems the documentation on where to go today isn't great. Don't let the bus run you over as you stumble in the road guys... The documentation is there. It just gets quickly covered up as new things come up. UDI could do better, but then again, a person would still need to dig through to find any single piece of news depending on how long it's been since they've checked on things.

Interesting video. He didn't detail his issues or fix to really study it. One thing I noticed was that he had a bank of 4 motion switches together. I wonder if those are all sending commands at the same time adding to the issues he's experiencing. It would be cool if he could pinpoint whether he has a unique setup, if it's an issue with ge or if other mfg. would cause the same issues

Click on your controller (red) verify all devices that shows up are configured to operate the way you want them to. You can also delete the controller from the scene and re-add it. Doing so will automatically configure the device with the scene attributes.

Click on the controller in your scene. In this case the kpl (it should be red). Look at all of the devices that shows up and make sure that your switch is set to be off.

Sounds like you didn't update the controller too. Just the scene itself. You must set the parameters for the scene and controller

Have you verified that the device isnt set to be off in the scene

https://forum.universal-devices.com/forum/376-caseta/

There are no what ifs. Voice assistants aren't t going anywhere. They're far too ingrained into our society now. Prices may rise or sales may not be as frequent or drastic but i can't see them abandoning Alexa completely. New features may simply be limited or take more time to come to fruition. What i see happening is more involved routines/features will probably require a subscription. Hardware will probably be broken up as well. 1 line for consumers that offers basic features with a subscription to more advanced stuff. These can follow the same path that Amazon takes now in regards to pricing and sales. They could then offer a pro line which costs more but is more feature rich. This can be used with or without a subscription for some services. If a subscription is desired by Amazon, they can offer it for a year or 2 without one. Most people who use prime use it for the shipping benefits not specifically for video, music, Alexa, books, etc. In fact, numerous studies have shown that close to 80% use prime for the expedited shipping. Everything else is just fluff. It's like my credit card. 99% of the reason everything goes on it is for travel points. The additional offers are nice but those aren't my main drivers. Most people (prime or not)who buy from Amazon overall do so because of product selection, ease of shopping, and returns. You are probably in the minority when it comes to how much your Amazon world revolves around being able to turn your tv on with the remote. There have been numerous studies online that constantly show that music, weather, and lighting is the biggest use of Alexa. Most do not use it to turn on their TV's and change channels/apps. Dig into those studies even more, even smarthomes usage is probably the least used feature since most people only interact with them a few times a week. The point I'm making by saying all this is; "Millions of prime ( & non prime) members will not be going anywhere". There probably will be some with your line of thinking but most likely they'll still use it from time to time. Just reading your description of your new potential buying habits gave me a headache. It seems convoluted to say the least. With Amazon so ingrained in us, not many will go through making 20 minute searches for the best price only to end up at Amazon anyway for the lowest price. Even if something is found cheaper somewhere, the additional shipping expense and shipping time will probably send them back to Amazon to buy anyway. With all that said- Nothing would change. Besides, Amazon to a 10b loss like it was nothing. Think about how many years this went on for. Obviously it's not Alexa that's driving their business.

Having products that lose money to bring customers in is one thing. Having it cost you 10 billion in 1 year is another....especially when that product isn't bringing enough money in through other means. At some point, investors will look at those numbers and want to see them come down. This can mean higher priced products, less innovative products, more fee based services, and less innovation overall. All in all, this impacts the future of smart homes. While smarthomes aren't going anywhere, the lack of investment can and will impact things going forward. Look at zwave. You'll find a few devices from certain mfg. with cool features and technological upgrades such as stronger radios but overall the protocol is stagnant in regards to moving forward with usability. I see the same thing with Matter if the big companies behind it do not see how it helps their bottom line overall. With them cutting back on investing in their own ecosystems, how likely are they to cut back on Matters when it's on more of an equal footing?

It's not so much about them going out of business but the willingness to expand on what Matter can do. If the drivers of a technology doesn't see the ROI that they're looking for, what push do they have to innovate or create? Long term, we could be talking about another standard to end all other standards again.

My question is how does this impact matter long term. Amazon and google were major drivers behind it. If they aren't seeing how it would be profitable to them, how long will it be before they move on

That's all it is

It's not telling anything. Depending on angle you see that in most of them.

Did you try to factory reset the device? Try bringing it closer to your polisy if it isn't close already