lilyoyo1

You're changing things to fit your argument. Not once have i said auto makers would not work to perfect their systems. It would be foolish to think that any of them would throw their hands up and say what they have is good enough. In fact, early on, I spoke about what my BMW was capable of compared to my car now. That difference comes from automakers adding and improving their technology. There is no such thing as perfection outside of the word itself. While one can strive for it, what ends up happening is you minimize and limit mistakes and other things that can go wrong. This continuous improvements enhances everything that one is trying to achieve. This is why automakers says the technology reduces instead of eliminates. The only way to eliminate accidents is for everyone to stop driving completely. Outside of that, if we can reduce accidents 50% or more with this technology, we'd be in a much better place overall. Look at airbags. As long as they've been around would you want a car without one? While people still die from accidents (and air bag deployment), would you buy a new car if it didn't have one (if it were possible). Why wouldn't someone do so? Despite the inherent dangers of deployment, the amount of people dying previously has been greatly reduced. The same goes for self driving cars. Long term, if accident rates fall due to them, the better off we'll be long term .

That's YOUR idea of the technology. Every car manufacturer says the idea is to REDUCE not ELIMINATE accidents. It's not just about my expectations but what auto makers also says themselves. Accidents can never be eliminated no matter how good things are. Every single car would need systems in place and working at 100%, 100% of the time in order to even start to think about that being possible. On top of that, there's still things that can interfere with that such as animals, inclement weather, etc. While one day we will probably see autonomous driving vehicles, accidents can and will still happen.

See what Michel said about your post. As I said earlier, there are times and places for what you called standards. When it comes to consumer devices, i offered rebuttals to what you stated and also showed how the cost of items based on those standards have dropped significantly (not that it's a bad thing). As I also previously showed, it's already happening like this when it comes to the current "standards". Look at zwave, Tuyo, and standard ZigBee devices. Nothing special about any of them. None of the companies making devices are trying innovate or expand what their products are capable of. 1000 different companies all making the same exact products with the same exact capabilities. Do you think a new standard will somehow change that? I'd rather go about it UDI's way (even C4 allows for some 3rd party stuff) and have the controller be capable of working with different products to provide a complete solution for disparate devices. This way innovation is not limited to what "others" decide to limit it to.

Humans can't see around buildings either but that doesn't stop us from being able to drive. The idea of any technology isn't to stop accidents from happening completely, it's to minimize the opportunities for it to happen. It's similar to seat belts and air bags. They don't stop people from dying in wrecks. They're there to lessen the chances. If we can cut down on accidents by 50% due to the technology, how much better are we because of it?

They'll happen this century and if i was a betting man, id say in the next 10-20 years. We went from wood and fabric planes to breaking the sound barrier by multiple times to visiting other worlds....in less than 100 years. When you have some of the brightest minds focused on making this happen it'll happen. Especially when there's enough money behind it. Just looking at my cats, i went from a2015 BMW 535 with adaptive cruise control, to a 2021 Genesis GV80 which allowed me to take a 2hr trip with me only having to provide input to change lanes and once at a busy freeway interchange due to me not wanting to chance an accident. Judging by how quickly the technology has changed from then to now, my 2027 Lyriq will be that much more capable. Now, the govt. may mandate people be behind the wheels or auto companies may require people behind the wheels so they don't get sued but the ability to go from location to location with minimum to no input will happen. I can see older generations not trusting the technology but younger drivers embracing it.

I feel like it'll be a have vs have nots since there well be limited desire to innovate beyond whatever a standard sets forth. Look at ZigBee and all the complaints people have from it. C4 uses a forked version of ZigBee and avoids the headaches that people talk about. Because they want to iterate and keep it desirable, they add stuff and improve on it regularly. Because of that look at what it can do compared to those systems who simply make devices based off the standard itself. Do you think any of them would take the time, money and effort to differentiate their products from one another? This can be seen with zwave. All these products but what's different about any of them? Nothing really special. Sure, some might have the ability to change sentinal light colors but does any truly stand out? You lost me with the rest of your post. You're much better than your present example. ?

I'm not confusing standards with competition. You are as a bidding war is not the same as the race to the bottom. Bidding wars results from competition. Apple and Sonos are able to command a premium for their wares due to patents which both are highly protective of. You may want to quadruple check your sources about the iPad. He announced it back in 2010 but died in 2011. He was touting it as the laptop killer (my words not his). Yes, the race to the bottom happens but that doesn't mean everyone will be on board. As I've said previously, a standard would create a have and have not world in regards to automation. Where those who want 1 standard will have 1 setup and those who want more, will have a proprietary system

Once 20.00 becomes the norm, someone will produce for 15. That's how the race to the bottom works. For a company to invest money on r&d and design, they are taking the hit so they want/need to recoup costs. A person simply copying them saves on that say they can produce cheaper. Higher quality components isn't enough to justify higher prices to most people to make up for what it costs to pay designers, coders, etc. Innovating and bringing new products to the market is not cheap which is why companies work to protect their investments by making them proprietary. While it may not be consumer friendly, businesses exist to make money. They'll be consumer friendly when and where it makes sense but otherwise their focus is on their own bottom line. It's the same reason why I stay away from consumer friendly stuff for the most part. Limited return on investment since anyone can do it.

According to your logic, a standard already exists in automation as a switch is still a switch in that it turns on and off while a dimmer adds dimming capability. Same with outlets (in wall receptacles or plug in). You're right in that standards exist and they exist for a reason. However, not all cameras support onvif (nor do most doorbells). In fact, the most popular of systems do not use onvif. Generally, it's the cheaper stuff that use onvif (there are some outliers like doorbird). Once again, race to the bottom. Since you bought up HDMI cables, look at the price of those. Once again, a standard allowed for a race to the bottom in regards to prices. Now they have a "certified" hdmi cable which allows companies to charge a little more. You do realize having a list of different compression methods means there is no standard method. The medium used to listen to music simply sports all the different stuff which allows for playback. Unless you're counting minimum standards for strength, etc., there is no standard steel. You have different processes as well as grades. The ingredients it takes to get those grades is not standard. That's why you have some places using iron ore while others use recycled metals. To make grade, other stuff may get added to the process. Depending on your furnace, what is required also changes. The same applies with everything else you mentioned except government mandated stuff due to safety reasons etc. So yes, standards work and they can be great. However, it ends up being a race to the bottom

5.0.16c is the highest firmware that supports the 300 board. Support for the 500 series came in 5.0.13

A few reasons. In addition to what Michel said, i think it's financial. There simply isn't any money in standards. If everyone is doing the same exact thing, how much can you really charge for your product. Why would anyone take the time and resources needed to develop a full line of devices only to be undercut on price by individual companies doing the same exact thing? Let's say a company does that but in order to make a profit, they have to sell each device for 50 bucks. What's stopping another company from utilizing those same standards to develop 1 product in your line that they sell for 20 bucks? Then another company comes behind them and does the same for another product. Then so forth and so forth on down the line. How much will you make long term and would it be enough to stay in business? Take refrigerators. When it comes to standard designs, those fridges are cheap. The most expensive ones will add their own flair to separate themselves from the crowd. What would end up happening with a standard is, the cheaper guys will follow it, but those with big budgets will still break them because they can such as Samsung. Do you really think Samsung, LG, or Kitchen Aide will follow standards that cheaper competitors follow? In the high end market, what the likelihood that Miele or Sub Zero will do the same? Automation has gone from only a certain segment of society having it to anyone can have and do. Standards would take things back to the haves and have nots as those who follow standards will have 1 set of capabilities while those who do their own thing will have another, much better setup

If this is across different switches and an issue that can be duplicated, I'd air gap each switch one at a time to see if it stops. Personally, my thinking is more in line with @MrBill I've seen similar situations in a few situations. The most recent ones required to power company to run new lines

Techman's answer is still the correct answer. Make sure you read the entire upgrade page to ensure its done properly.

Funny how you down all these multi billion dollar companies suck and are failures but they're still multi billion dollar companies that's here to stay for the foreseeable future. They must be doing something right otherwise we'd be at their level as well

This is what gets me. All these comments yet no one knows anything about the devices. Not a single person can say how they work, what they're capable of, how they feel, response etc. Yet downing it like they simply put a different faceplate on it. As I said in an earlier post, I'm hesitant to criticize business people. Especially those much more successful than I. While I'm sure rRob has his own failures, it speaks volumes that the man is a high level multi millionaire unlike us through his business decisions.

At&t terminates thousands of employees every year. Are they going anywhere?

Why do you even bother?

I do the same thing with some variations. For non critical items, I'll just make responder scenes and use programs to turn them off vs having them hard linked to the controller. For example, each room has an all off/goodnight button. Each device is in the scene as a responder and I use programs to turn them off based on the button press (or voice). My away button will also trigger the program which turns each room's scene off as well vs having a separate away scene. Keypads are your biggest enemy when it comes to device count as each button counts as one. I use programs with mine as well. Since I use a lot of presets, i don't want double taps to always turn stuff full blast so this is also where i will create a responder scene and trigger it with a program. The double tap causes the reverse. For example, early evening, the light are full blast. A double tap dims the lights. Late evening, they are dim. A double tap turns them full blast.

Funny, you were just crying about personal attacks and avoiding my question but come back with more. As I asked earlier, what have I stated that has been proven false. Just yesterday you said it was disco'd but now have a different response. There's enough people here who can vouch for what I've said about stuff. Can you say the same?

How can it look like something when you've never seen, felt, touched, or used it in life? It's crazy that people are downing a product that hasn't been released or used. While Teken has his reservationsat least he is willing to hold off on passing judgement until he gets his hands on one.

True.

It funny you talk about name recognition. When the line was first announce, people here we're happy as they felt it was a new direction etc. Why? Because despite it's history, not a signal person can say anything negative about their products. Once it came out about insteon and smartlabs, that excitement turned sour which is funny since not a single person here has seen, touched, or used the product to really know how it stacks up.

This is my last reply. Elon Musk's own words were to that effect. Had NASA not given them a contract in 2008, they would not be here today. Same thing with Tesla. Had Daimler not given him a 50 million lifeline Tesla wouldn't be here either. So yes while you can call it a contract, had it not come along, they would not be here

An argument can be made that in N. America, there's only Apple and Samsung not realizing that if we looked past the trees into the forest, Apple is number 3

I haven't personally attacked anyone. I simply asked a question which you still haven't been able to answer. There are members here that can vouch for stuff that I've shared without having to reveal sources. I've revealed stuff to you as well information not found in public which you seen to have forgotten. Unless you've deleted your emails they are there. I'll ask again, what have I shared on here or in private that has been proven incorrect?