lilyoyo1

Discontinuing and out of stock are 2 different things. Here's a list of products that they will be making for the foreseeable future.

Save yourself some time typing and just copy and paste your posts. You're regurgitating the same points over and over. All the downsides, I've already covered as to why in my post about perfection. Currently, regulations/law (as larryllix stated) require pilots, train engineers, etc. to be in place regardless of how capable a system might be, so your argument is moot. When hundreds and potentially thousands of lives are at stake, I highly doubt this will ever change. Once again, we do not have autonomous cars, planes, and trains. We have vehicles that are able to assist with driving requir minimal intervention. If your focus is on autonomous driving in the future, nothing changes. Laws and regulations will still require specific things. That doesn't mean they won't be capable of it. Generations NOW will not trust autonomy. At some point, those same Generals, Admirals, and politicians will be replaced with younger generations that grew up with the technology. At one point, there were Generals and others in charge that didn't trust computers, cellphones, and other technology. Change is hard for people....especially the older they get. It's the younger ones who grew up with the technology that ends up embracing it and ushering a new era. That'll be the case with this. Our instant gratification world cannot fathom how quickly things Change. 20 years ago, adaptive cruise control was a big deal for luxury vehicles. The ability to slow down with traffic was enormous. Now that's on any halfway decent car. The fact that we're arguing over self driving and autonomous shows how far we've come in such a short amount of time. With computers as powerful as they are now (and getting smaller with more power), think about where we will be in another 20 years. There's a huge difference between what my car can do now vs what the system could originally do back when first released back in 2015. Besides what's in the video, the GV will automatically change speeds based on the posted speed limits and when entering/exiting curves. The crazy part is that Tesla's system is much much much more advanced than Genesis. From what I've seen, i have no doubt that things will only get better.

I actually answered you a while back when I said, people are needed because the systems can and will fail. The systems aren't perfect. With that said, you are confusing self driving/flying with autonomous transportation. Even with Tesla, while they are pushing their FSD system, it's still self driving not autonomous. Their own words back up what I'm saying as they say their system will LEAD to autonomous driving but is not capable of that at this time.

I had to wait a year to get mine. I originally wanted the G80 (car version) but when I saw that, I had to get it. There's a few bugs in it but that was expected with it being first generation. Overall though I'm happy

I think people are confusing self driving with autonomous driving. Technically a car with cruise control, good brakes/rotors, tires, and alignment will drive itself if you set it and take your hands off the steering wheel on a straight road. Autonomous driving is your car being able to go from point A to be with zero human input and make decisions for itself. For example, if i put one of my drones in follow me mode, I can put my remote down and it will fly on its own while following me. Depending on the obstacle, i may need to pick up the remote as the sensors will err on the side of caution to avoid obstacles. This is similar to self driving cars as well as planes and trains operating. Humans are still there when stuff happens. While my drone technically isn't capable of autonomous flight, it comes close in return to home mode. Should I hit the button, drone lose connection with remote, or battery start to die, it'll automatically start to fly back. Depending on obstacles and settings, it'll fly back from where it's at without any input from me. Depending on the obstacle, it'll go around it without any issues. Technically, it's flying autonomously at that moment. Planes and trains are similar to what my drone does in follow me mode. They don't necessarily need someone controlling it. However, people are still there at times for when they are needed. Even with stuff that runs on its own (outside of transportstion, human intervention is still possible for a reason. Saying remove a steering wheel makes absolutely no sense. Even if cars were truly capable of autonomous driving, they'd still have steering wheels for a multitude of reasons. For starters, not everyone will want to use it. Even with my car, outside of me testing the system, I'll still drive it because I want the control. The system is still engaged just in case something distracts me but i want to be in control. As the technology improves it's younger generations who will use it. It's like computers are to the elderly who never had to use them vs young kids today. When it comes to self driving and autonomous driving, we're the elderly. Our grandkids and great grand kids will be the ones growing up driving with these systems in place so trust in them will be established in adulthood. Regulations will still require them to know HOW to drive. They'll simply defer to that more than we do and will

Still need the license to get it set up in the C4 system. You may find someone willing to give/sell you theirs

Genesis GV80

I'm with you on this one. After my experience with my GV, I'm looking forward to the future

This is why I never got into Crestron or Lutron homeworks. Great systems but you are at the no mercy of the systems. Once installed you can't go back to normal. I couldn't in good conscience do that to someone. Crestron does have a wireless option now but I don't have any experience with it too talk about it

While it's a moot point, Crestron is actually much more expensive than Control 4. It'll cost roughly 2x that of control4 (if going with hardwired system) C4 gets you on device cost but programming it is relatively easy so it doesn't cost that much (relatively speaking). Crestron is the opposite. Device cost is actually pretty cheap. Especially with their wireless system. However, due to programming, the cost for it is higher. Affordability matters. However, my post wasn't to talk anyone into C4 or any luxury system. It was to show the difference when companies are able to invest in building an ecosystem vs making minimal profit which doesn't allow for long term development to build an ecosystem.

I tried to keep my response as weak as your argument. ?

MrBill answered your questions but Id reiterate my point about reading the cookbook. It'll answer questions you don't know you have yet and those you have. Another thing I'd say is keep it simple. Whether it's naming, voice control, programming etc. Looking at your example for the foyer- besides you, who will know that information and does it really matter? You can add the extra information to the notes section of you need it. MrBills example for showing multiway switches is a good one. Another thing about voice is that everything doesn't have to be controlled. Slap a motion sensor in your foyer or use a timer for lights to turn on/off automatically. No voice needed. The last thing you want is to try and remember 100 different things when turning stuff on and off.

We both know you end things like that when you know your wrong! Ps. Still a race to the bottom

Sounds like spam to me

Wow- those features sure are amazing....what have I been missing all these years. ? Besides mentioning the leds in my very first post, C4 has been doing that for years, not waiting until recent times. Sounds like Apple talking about NFC after android had it for years. FYI- homeseer switches has also been doing this for some time as well. C4 switches have programmable RGB LEDs for status. C4 didn't have to wait until now to come up with that feature and they take it a step further by integrating an ambient light sensor so that the LEDs automatically adjusts brightness depending on how bright the room is. If your switches/keypads are engraved, the ambient light sensor works for this as well. In regards to ra2 nope. But unlike zooz and innovelli, C4 and Ra2 are their own ecosystems. Can you operate either one of those companies device lines without a 3rd party controller? In addition to that, can either one of those devices work with a group of other devices without experiencing the popcorn effect? Zwave devices cannot compare to either of those systems at all. You may find 1 or 2 features that exist in it but those devices will fail miserably if you try to compare it to any of the top systems. Heck, you can't even get custom buttons for zwave keypads. There's a reason why people talk about lighting experience when it comes to these systems vs simple automation. Despite your examples, neither product actually offers anything of substance outside of what other devices do when it comes to the one thing they're designed for and that's lighting. If having a house full of innovelli or zooz means no popcorn effect then that would be something of substance. If they offered keypads along with custom engraving, at least then, i could start looking at them as trying to start building an ecosystem. They are simply coming out with the same exact rehashed devices that does the same thing as someone else

I'm tired of going around in circles with this so this will be my last post on the subject. I'm not saying (nor have i said) standards do not exist nor are helpful. As you've said countless times on repeat it has benefitted consumers many times over. It's whether it will help HA itself in regards to a full ecosystem or not. My argument from the beginning is that it could/would cause a race to the bottom in regards to prices causing stagnation in the industry. The likelihood of seeing alot of innovation and ecosystems (remember this word, you'll be seeing it again) growing from those standards would be limited (non existent). Whatever said devices were made for will be it. Individual companies will not work to build out an ecosystem because of the financial risk. Now- In regards to wifi 6! You're talking about a router (or connected devices that has it). A router is a singular device designed for a specific purpose. That is not the same as an ecosystem which is a multitude of devices. When I look at the price of wifi6 when first released to now, there's a huge difference. Technically you can get one for the very low price of free if you're an at&t customer as their newest router has support for wifi6. On the flip side, you can also buy a few different models for about 70 bucks so I would say it is a race to the bottom knowing where they started off at. Additional features are added by the big companies in hopes of differentiating their products from others in hopes that you'll pay more but we both already know how that goes....There are cases where a person will spend more (alot more) for their needs. They may be a gamer, perceived idea of best=more, simply want most expensive, larger home, etc. For the avg person however, they'll go with either the free option from their provider or the cheap one you can find in stores.

I never said standards kill competition. I said standards will limit innovation as companies will simply follow what the standard entails and not try anything new. As I've also shown with Tuyo, zwave, and ZigBee, no one is trying to come out with anything new. Everyone is simply releasing the same old products with a lower price point! It's less about building an ecosystem that can thrive vs copying everyone else. You still haven't named a single manufacturer that uses the same standards where they aren't simply copying the other guys. The only place you find full ecosystems is in proprietary high end systems. Why? Because they've taken the time, money, and effort to build out their systems to make them desirable to use. By protecting their investments, they are able to spend the time and money on their systems vs making the same stuff as everyone else.

Or the world can catch up to us and get rid of the metric system. Lol

You keep arguing about standards but no one has said standards do not exist. They do. Whether one is truly needed for HA devices or if it will help or hurt HA in regards to innovation is one of the many questions that only time will tell.

Self driving does not mean autonomous driving. There are many other reasons why they have steering wheels and will continue to do so.

Almost anything is feasible... It's whether or not anyone and everyone is motivated enough to do so

I actually prefer the start linking method vs typing in the address. Start linking>factory reset> linking mode>linked at 1 time

Deleting existing links is not the same as a factory reset. A factory reset is the only way to guarantee no additional links are stored in the device. There is no way to tag a device. Even if there was, the insteon hub and Isy are 2 different controllers made by different companies. The Isy would not be aware of what that controller is doing. I recommend reading the Isy wiki and Isy cookbook prior to getting started. There's a lot of great information in both which will help you with your Isy setup. A quick Google search or Isy wiki and/or Isy cookbook will give you the links. In answer to your multi way switch question, simply add all devices as controllers and configure them for what you want them to do.

In addition to what mrbill said, bringing in old links will cause you more work than simply adding devices 1 at a time. This forum is littered with people who looked for the short cuts only to spend more time than they saved having to clean up the mess the quick way made. If you think about it, with 150 devices, if it were possible to bulk add, all you'll have are a bunch of numbers showing up in the system. How will you know what they are? Now you'll need to go around 1 at a time to test and figure out what each and every device is in order to rename them. By starting with 1 room at a time, you can factory reset to clear any potential bad links, add your devices from that room, rename it, and add it to the corresponding scenes (if already set up).

Man isn't perfect so how can he build something that is perfect? This is why we have redundancies built into stuff.