ulrick65

I actually laughed out loud when I saw your post Gary...funny.

Sorry...but I have to jump in here... In my opinion, you are asking for trouble with this method. I am nearly certain (98.743%) that you will have trouble with this and not get all of the links that you need to get. You will end up going back and trying to relink missing links, figuring out what is missing, etc. I know it is a lot of work...but really, I think it will be worth it in the end....just go ahead and recreate the stuff. My gut tells me that you will be chasing ghosts and problems for a week and then finally doing a reset anyway. Just my 2 cents... Eric

How are you looking for the state of these keys? Can you give some detail as to how you use them? These buttons are normally referred to as "secondary buttons" on the keypadlinc (KPL). Normally, you can refer to them in programs and check the status of them in the IF section...to see if they are on or off, but this can be a bit tricky at time depending on what you are doing with them. Perhaps posting your programs would help... Eric

It mounts in the fixture for the light. What you have to do is rewire the wires that go down to the switch box #1 that you currectly have. This is called a "switch loop". Basically, power comes into the fixture first, then you run that power down to the switch and back to the fixture. In your case, you have a 3-way switch that complicates it a little more. The power runs down to your first box and then "travels" to your second box via the traveler wires, then back to your 1st box, then back to the fixture (via the black wire). In a switch loop, it is "code" that the white wire be the "feed to the switch"...which in your case it is. With the 2 wire dimmer kit (http://www.smarthome.com/2474D/2-Wire-INSTEON-Dimmer-Kit-White/p.aspx you can get dimming capability with your setup. It comes with good directions, but the jist of it is this: You install the dimmer portion (that controls the load) in the fixture. You rewire the "switch loop" that goes down to your switch to be a normal power (black) and neutral (white) and then connect the no load switchlinc dimmer. This solves the problem. You can install the second switchlinc dimmer in box #2 and connect it to the neutral that you can pick up on there (because, as Rand said, it has no load attached, it will be the only load...and it will get on the powerline via the power and neutral in that box, so it does not violate code). OR.....you could run the power and neutral that you have in box #1 over to box #2 via the 3-wire cable that you have (leaving one wire unused) and accomplish the same thing, while keeping both switches on the same circuit (this is what I would do if I were doing this in my house). Running the new wire solves the problem, so if you can wait...you can save the cost of the 2-wire switchlinc kit. Eric Does it have to be the first fixture, if thats a yes then which is the first fixture, from which end. My fixtures are in a square pattern in the basement ceiling (so no attic ) I was able to pull one of the fittings down and can get at the box which is screwed to the joists. At this stage I haven't got an InlineLink but would you mind explaining exactly how it would all work. Do I use standard 3-way switches and if so how does the dimming work etc.. Thank you, Wayne [/url]

You need to remove it from the ISY first, then factory reset it and then relink it back to ISY...did you try that? Also, it should not blow breakers no matter what. This means that you have a circuit overloaded....you need to investigate that further. You likely have a problem there that should be corrected. Eric

Rand's suggestion is the best one for sure, unless you want to pull a wire to that box. It is not really a good idea to use a neutral from a different circuit, although it will work fine provided you do not have ground fault breakers. It does violate code. It is also a safety concern because the borrowed neutral will have power on it even when it's associated breaker is off. Down the road, if someone were to shut off the breaker feeding that circuit, then test the hot wire...they would find no power. However, when they disconnected the neutral, they could get a shock because they would complete the circuit for the OTHER breaker that is still powered. Also you have the ability to overload the neutral wire because you now have double the amp capacity capable of going over it. For the 14 gauge wire, you will have a 15 amp breaker....using the neutral from the other circuit, you will have the capability of sending 30 amps down that neutral wire...which exceed it's capacity and it could get hot (which means risk of fire, etc.). I don't recommend using the neutral from a seperate circuit.

In order to make it work, you simply create a scene with whatever Keypad buttons you want to "control" (no controller in the scene, just the buttons as reponders) then turn the scene on or off from programs to turn the led for the button on or off. Eric

Rand, was this post meant for this thread? I was not sure who you were responding to...

I apologize I did not go into detail when I said delete the scene. I always delete each device from the scene first, then delete the scene....I should have told you that. Seems like you shouldn't have to do that, but when I tried deleting a scene directly I had problems. Glad you got it working though... I admit, I have NEVER seen it take that long to complete before!

There really is only two things that can cause the behavior you are seeing (barring some weird glitch with the system)...either the MS is switched OFF or the program 'ISYPrg_Sunset Inside Lts Prg' is becoming false. It does take some getting use to, but once you do it will be easier. As Rand said, it's design for ease of use demands simplicity (I like that!) but because of that there are some things that can trip you up. The programs that Rand has displayed will help getting it working as you want for sure. I prefer the second method (with two programs) because I don't care much for using the Else statements when multiple conditions are used in the If section...but that's just me. Doing it with two programs gives you complete control. Once triggered, the second program could care less about the If statement in the first (except that it will restart if the MS goes from OFF to ON of course...which is desirable I think).

Is there a keypadlinc in this scene, or just switchlincs? The reason I ask is because depending on many factors, it could take a while to complete. Whenever this happens to me, I leave it along at system busy until it completes...it always does for me and has sometimes taken 20 minutes or more when a Keypadlinc is in the picture that has a lot of links in it.

What you are describing is exactly how the system works. I can't be sure without knowing what your 'ISYPrg_Sunset Inside Lts Prg' is doing, but I expect you are correct...it is becoming False while this program is executing. ISY continually monitors the If section for state changes...even while it is executing the Then section. If something changes state, it re-evaluates the If statements and acts accordingly. Since in your case the If statements are no longer true, it executes the Else statements (in your case none) and sets the program status to False. This may not be desirable for you as you have said, but this is how it works. You will need to account for this in your programming....without fully understanding what your 'ISYPrg_Sunset Inside Lts Prg' does, it is hard to say what to do to fix it.

I assume you set up the scene in ISY and didn't manually link the lights to the motion sensor, right? If so, I would simply delete the scene and recreate it.

Darrell is 100% right...but keep in mind (because many people miss this point) that anything less than 100% is NOT on. So if you say: If Bedroom light is ON then...etc. and expect that if the light is 90% that the statement is true...because it isn't. When Darrell says 100% = ON that is exactly what it means...anything less than 100% is not on. Subtle point...but important. Yes, ON is 100% (OFF is 0%), so ON is > 90% and the condition is True. 90% is NOT > 90%, so the condition is False.

The T1800 and T1900 Venstars have the ability to control humidity and they have a Humidity setpoint both for Humidify and De-Humidify. The setpoint is done through the setup though and not directly changeable from the "normal" thermostat control screen. Because of that, I am not sure if it is changeable through the Insteon adapter or not. Why do I know this you might ask? Well, as some of us discussed in another thread, I mistakenly bought the T1700 thinking I was getting Humidity sensing. I didn't need humidity control, which I knew the T1800 and T1900 did...since I don't have a humidifier system on the unit, I just wanted to run the AC when the humidity gets high. I have it setup that way now (If it gets over a certain level, set the system to cool, set the ac setpoint lower, etc.) but just recently learned it has never worked! Because even though the T1700 sends back a Humidity reading to the ISY...it is bogus because it doesn't even a humidity sensor in it! There, got that off my chest!

This is something that got me when I started programming in ISY that I think catches other folks as well, so I thought I would make a quick post to explain it. When you check the status of a dimmable device in the 'If' section of a program, it is important to remember that dimmers can have a status of OFF, ON or xx% (where xx is a number that corresponds to their current level). The reason this is important is because xx% is not the same as ON. Take the following program for example: If Status 'Test.Sld.Light' is On Then Set 'Test.Kpl.Button A' On Else Set 'Test.Kpl.Button A' Off This will turn on and off my 'Test.Kpl.Button A' when 'Test.Sld.Light' is either On or Off. However, when 'Test.Sld.Light' is set to some level other than 100%, this program will not work (at least not how I want). Let's say that 'Test.Sld.Light' is turned Off, then this program will be False and the Else statement runs and turns my Kpl Button Off. Now, if I begin brightening 'Test.Sld.Light' to say 50%, the light will be on (half bright) but this program is STILL false (because 50% is not On). If I brighten it all the way to 100%, it will change to status of ON and my KPL Button will come on. This is where the "Is Not" function comes in handy. Take a look at this program: If Status 'Test.Sld.Light' is not Off Then Set 'Test.Kpl.Button A' On Else Set 'Test.Kpl.Button A' Off This works perfect now, as long as 'Test.Sld.Light' is something other than Off...my Kpl Button will be On. If 'Test.Sld.Light' IS Off, then the statement is False and it runs the Else statment and sets my Kpl button off. On a last note: Always remember that ISY must see a change occur in the condition in order for the program to execute (unless it is called directly, but that is another story). So, in this case the status of 'Test.Sld.Light' must change for ISY to evaluate the condition and execute the proper Then/Else statements.

A key point that Rand touched briefly on above: The act of adding a device to ISY is actually creating a link. (to the PLM) so the KPL button should status should get updated in ISY no matter if it is part of an ISY scene or not (just like gregoryx said). Remember what MikeB said though...it will only show status AFTER it has been pushed at least once (you said you pushed it, so this is likely a moot point) Rand: I am 99.78% sure that KPL's work the same way as SWL's, they don't send group commands unless they have a link...however, as you said connecting to ISY is a link (one for the SWL and either 6 or 9 for a KPL depeding if it is 6 button or 8 button mode). If the restore device that MikeB suggested does not work, then I would remove the device from ISY, factory reset it and then re-add it. Out of curiosity, what version and rev level this KPL is?

Yes it does cancel immediately. It will set the program to False and run the Else statements (in this case there are none, so it just quits).

I'm used to all or nothing...I live my life that way, probably why I suck at Texas Hold 'em so bad. I also have a slight case of OCD...which means I can't have rogue IR codes in my ISY....so I guess it's delete all!

Good to hear...but things are not "well" in northern wisconsin this time of year....I've been there, it's cold...very cold.

I think what rowland was trying to say is the we are all "beta" testers...since all of the products never seem to get to a final "released" state and therefore there are no real "end users". Ahhh...the joys of home automation. Someday it will just work, right out of the box and we all yearn for the days we got to fiddle with stuff all night long and argue with the wife about why it is necessary (and cool) to have. Until then...test on my friends!

Good point... Glad you agree with me!

Is there a way to delete learned IR codes? I learned a few more than I wanted to and I would like to clean up the list.

I did post there back a bit...probably not looking for anymore. I wasn't really trying to get in on the beta testing necessarily...just saying that it seems like when they make changes to stuff (or new products) it seems like there are issues that should have been caught in a good beta program. I am not upset with SH or trying to bash them...in fact I think they do a pretty good job of making things right once they find a problem, it just seems to me that more testing would be better for them (and us) up front. Not sure if they're still looking for testers, but consider posting here: http://www.techmall.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=2358

Have you read the Wiki? Particularly the Programs section of the How To section. There is some good stuff in there... I had a bit too much cheer last night...so running a little slow this morning! (Afternoon already??) I will try and make a post with some descent details on what I have learned about programming. Not near what others know, but it might give you some ideas. I pretty much suck and showing (teaching) people how to do stuff...I tend to get too wordy and then my point gets a bit cloudy....but I will do my best (after several more cups of coffee and possibly a nap!) Here's the link to the Wiki if you dont have it: Wiki