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If you're using a program, then On runs Then and Off runs Else, so you could turn "Daylight" on (Then statement) and/or off (Else statement). I was elated to learn about Alexa Routines and then I installed v3 of hte ISY skill which does not support off at all for scenes and programs. I was temporarily disheartened. The solution was to create a program for each scene and/or program that I wanted to turn off and place the appropriate statement(s) in the Then section. The original scene and/or program remains intact, it just can't be turned off. I use the routine to run the corresponding new program to turn a scene off or turn the corresponding new program that has the original programs Else statements in the Then section. If and when v.3 gets fixed (it's in the hands of Amazon, not UDI), then I'll just delete the new programs and modify the affected Routine. Or even leave things as they are--probably not

Why are you using a program? The usual method, if two devices each control a third device, is to have each device a controller of the same scene in which the third device is a responder. BTW, it would be clearer if you specified which device is which (as you did for two of the devices) instead of "this device" or "that device" or "the device." If you want a KPL button to be controlled by a program, have the program turn on the scene that the referred to button is a member of. If you want only the button controlled and not the other members of that scene, then create a scene with only the referred to button as a responder and turn on that scene. I can be clearer if you specified each device, which are controllers and which are responders and also post the program (right click on the program name and select Copy to Clipboard).

In each case, create a scene with both devices as Controllers. A device can be a controller of one and only one scene, but it can be a responder to many. They'll appear in red in the scene. BTW, for the ISY, a controller is also a responder, but a responder is never a controller. Responders in scenes appear in blue. In the First Case, above, why do you have two scenes?

I'm not fighting it. On the contrary, I started my post with, "I haven't yet tried .." I will try, but I haven't yet gotten around to it.

Does that mean that if I place one otherwise unused "light device" in a few scenes, that I could then issue a successful Off command for that scene?

I haven't yet tried having an Echo device in each of two rooms on the same sub-account and using the same, identical command to control each light separately in each of those rooms, for example, "Alexa, turn the light on," turns on only the light in the room where I issue the command. But I found this which indicates that it can't be done. I have been using separate sub-accounts to accomplish the task and it works flawlessly. A tremendous advantage of v3 is that you no longer need an Amazon account for each sub-account. OTOH, I find working on a computer more convenient for most tasks compared with using a smartphone, but that's just me. And that requires a free Amazon account. I do not use Prime for my sub-accounts. That may be a disadvantage for many of you. BTW, an Amazon account supplements the functionality of a portal sub-account, it in no way interferes with the smartphone app.

It's hardware. You'll have to open the ISY to install it, but that's easy if you can rewire a lamp and replace a wall switch. Click on Help. Purchase Modules or try here.

Benoit, Thanks again for the speedy response. Can annoying Amazon help? That's us being pests, not UDI Stu

Any progress on the Open (On) and Close (Off) fiasco?

You can add the IR module to the ISY. Actually, all the Harmony Hub can do is trigger a program. Then you can use a program in and of itself or have the program turn on or off a device and/or scene. There are more complex methods, but whay not go with the simplest way to accomplish the same task.

The All On problem is an Insteon protocol command. That command has been deleted from Insteon devices a while ago. Sorry, I don't have a date, but I believe that it's more than a year. Older devices can still respond to that command, newer devices cannot. No one has yet pinpointed how the command gets produced, but it seems restricted to an ISY Insteon network only.

I'm back, This is the first time you mentioned using the iPhone app. That's somewhat different than the computer app. I'll play with the smartphone app to see what can be accomplished.

How do you create a Smart Home Group for only one room. I can create any number of groups and add any number of devices to that group, including only the lights for just one room, but what do I name each group so that the identical command turns on the devices only in that one group?

Detail how it's done. I'm running the v.3 skill. Thanks. Edit: see post #23.

I'll continue to mention it whenever the subject comes up for those who want to use the same term in each of separate rooms. Sure, I can have Alexa control all lights by placing them in a Group. I can also do that using a scene. But, without multiple accounts, I cannot use the same expression in different rooms and have only the device (e.g., light, fan, table lamp, floor lamp, etc.) in that particular room respond. Thus, "Alexa, turn on the light," turns on only the bedroom light when I'm in the bedroom. An identical command issued from the living room turns on only the living room light. Ditto for the kitchen, dining room and media room. That cannot currently be accomplished using a single account, not even with v.3.

Green and orange instead of green and purple should reverse the response of the open vs. close sensor.

Although the Aeotech Siren does protrude from the wall, it is a siren. All sirens protrude. It was, at one time, the only available Z-Wave repeater that was widely effective, but now other equally effective repeaters are available such as a doorbell which can be used with the included wireless push-button or with any ISY connected doorbell device. There's also a Gen 6 repeater which is really small. Plug any device into an outlet that's inaccessible such as behind the couch. And yes, Larry is correct, Z-Wave needs a full mesh which a repeater fulfills (or a number of wired Z-Wave devices).

I don't. I do use multiple accounts.

No programs need to be recreated. You only need to add programs to control the Off situation which can be deleted when the "bug" is fixed.

No, you can buy a different Z-wave controller and have the ISY use it as a primary controller. Oh, wait. You need the ISY Z-wave module to do that. But, other Z-Wave controllers can often access features that the ISY cannot. Unless you're willing to give v5, which is in Alpha testing a go.

v.2 can do that now. v.2 can do that now. That's my concern. In the Amazon Alexa smartphone Routines, the Off command is available only for devices. Scenes can be turned on, but not off. And groups don't even appear.

Hi Larry, You response is not unlike some of mine, missing the title entirely

US distributor for ISY products. I'm also using Schlage locks. I did some extensive field testing between the front door and detached garage (about 75' through two wood lathe and plaster walls, two drywall walls and an aluminum garage door) and found the Aeon Gen 5 Siren, ZW056 Doorbell and Range Extender to all be equally effective. The siren and doorbell each have a second purpose (but I don't use the siren, it was the only effective range extender when I bought it). The Range extender is the least costly of the three.

More than a few of us are concerned that the highly touted ISY v.3 skill doesn't support Off for both scenes and programs. A workaround, probably discovered by other but not posted, is to use a program to turn the scene off (if it's a scene) and a second program with the Else statements in the Then section (if it's a program). You can leave the original program intact and delete all the workaround programs when and if a solution occurs.

Perhaps I don't understand your difficulty. All of my lights are controlled by scenes and are named "light," and are controlled by scenes. Alexa has no difficulty controlling those scenes. I especially don't get you last sentence. The portal doesn't show anything as a light, only as a device, scene or program. Or do you mean the smartphone app which shows keypads and switchlincs as light bulbs under the devices tab? Also, not all scenes control lights, so why should they appear as lights? And what and where is the "discovery payload?"