Karen L Posted April 21, 2017 Posted April 21, 2017 Hi guys, I read a lot in the Wiki and forums on how to replace my PLM and there is a lot of topics The main instructions are very clear but then I'm a little confused. 994 Pro about 70 devices PLM died - I tried an old PLM (non dual band) - seems to work a little but has a lot of issues. Tried PLM Restore, Restore Devices etc 1. I have a good a good backup 2. I have a brand new PLM V2.3 3. I know I need to remove power from ISY and old PLM, Plug in New PLM and cable, Then boot the ISY 4. Then it gets confusing for me. Once it boots up what do I do first, second and third? a. Boot up with the new PLM b. Log into ISY and wait for it to stop "doing stuff" (appears to be writing to devices) c. clear any communication errors d. I already am running on my latest backup...do I still need to Restore the latest ISY backup at this point? or just Restore PLM? e. Do I have to do a Restore Devices at any point? Thanks for any help, sorry I am confused I don't want to risk messing up this new PLM
Karen L Posted April 21, 2017 Author Posted April 21, 2017 Thank you so much Paul. I will execute exactly as the directions say to. The directions do not say anything about restoring an ISY backup...so I won't. Here I go...wish me luck!
paulbates Posted April 21, 2017 Posted April 21, 2017 Karen Typically you should not have to restore an ISY backup. See how things go without. If a ISY backup proves to be needed, it should be pre PLM failure, as a backup after could back up a corrupted link table. Give the above a try and let's go from there. Paul
Karen L Posted April 21, 2017 Author Posted April 21, 2017 4/20/2017, 9:30 PM New PLM install unplugged all plugged in new PLM and cable waited 20 seconds plugged in ISY waited 60 seconds opened admin console and logged in Started doing what looks to be a query Started to get some failed to communicate to some devices (only 3) Finished query quickly So far better then the last few attempts on other PLM's clicked on the battery button to make it yellow (not green) I did not change the automatic write to devices button - left it as is (which leaves auto writes on?) selected Restore Modem (PLC) 27% completed and no errors …, this is better then earlier attempts to Restore PLM Finished with only one device communication error but… 90% of my devices show the green 1010 I turned on a light via the admin console, it was very delayed (4-5 seconds) and finally came on but reported a failed to communicate error Tried a light that that did not have a green 1010, it also reacted very slow and also finally turned on but reported a failed to communicate.
larryllix Posted April 21, 2017 Posted April 21, 2017 I found a new PLM took hours and hours choking on every battery devie I have. I have ten MSes so it choked a lot. Once it stopped I put each battery device into linking mode and queried it only, until it behaved like I thought it should. My guess is your ISY is still choking on the massive query. You should be seeing a lot of busy bxes in the admin console. IIRC I went to bed and did my battery devices in the morning. While this was happenning I could get almost nothing to respond on my ISY. Every action took minutes.
Karen L Posted April 21, 2017 Author Posted April 21, 2017 My system was working perfectly prior to going south. No new appliances or electrical work was done. The performance just got worse and worse over a few days. It got to the point thatI'd have white failed to communicate boxes stacked up on each other during every admin login. I'd have to click OK on all of them to do anything else (seemed like one per device). Some lights would work with great delay and communication errors and some would not work at all. My programs seem to work without issue (I only have a few) So after messing with a spare PLC that I replaced last year for a dual band, with similar results, I bought the brand new PLC and it seems a little better but not much.
Karen L Posted April 21, 2017 Author Posted April 21, 2017 Thanks Laryllix, I turned off the battery updates before the PLM Restore. Those devices show a yellow 1010. I don't know if I should try a Device Restore at this point or let it sit over night.
larryllix Posted April 21, 2017 Posted April 21, 2017 (edited) Thanks Laryllix, I turned off the battery updates before the PLM Restore. Those devices show a yellow 1010. I don't know if I should try a Device Restore at this point or let it sit over night. I would try to enable one battery device at a time, put the device into linking mode and then try to force each device query. The 1011's are normal as the general query failed on those devices, as they should have. I had trouble trying to wait for the device I put into linking mode, to get auto-queried by ISY each as the device linking mode times out and it would miss it again. I was persistent and as I got more devices stable it sped up. Now I didn't block or disable anything, so I got into a query storm with battery devices that couldn't respond and it really ground things to a halt. I would do things a little differently next time but it sounds like you did some of that, already. You'll get there. It was frustrating for me too. Edited April 21, 2017 by larryllix
Karen L Posted April 21, 2017 Author Posted April 21, 2017 Thank you. This morning, everything was the same. Almost all of the devices still has 1011 and when turning a device on it delays, then may or may not come on but then the failed to communicate pops up and puts the red exclamation. I'll try what you suggest with the battery devices. Thank you so much
larryllix Posted April 21, 2017 Posted April 21, 2017 Thank you. This morning, everything was the same. Almost all of the devices still has 1011 and when turning a device on it delays, then may or may not come on but then the failed to communicate pops up and puts the red exclamation. I'll try what you suggest with the battery devices. Thank you so much hmmmmm.. doesn't sound very good, so far. I was going to suggest a factory reset of your ISY but being a more complex procedure you may want to initiate a support ticket request with UDI. People report them to be very responsive. There is a link with every Michel Konahim's post. IIRC you have already power cycled the PLM and ISY properly. Assuming your programs and device profiles are all still intact, have you tried to do a restore PLM again?
paulbates Posted April 21, 2017 Posted April 21, 2017 Karen, sorry this is happening Here are a few things to try: Check your programs - are the icons next to any of them constantly blinking? if yes, disable, then retry restore modem Since the PLM is new, lets suspect it. Do a factory reset of it, and then restore modem again. Some devices have the ability to "blink on traffic" or "LED on TX" so you can see Insteon activity on the powerline- their led will flash. Do you have a switch that did restore that you can turn on "blink on traffic"? If its continually blinking, a device has potentially become confused in the process. If you have constant blinking, try shutting off breakers, one at a time until it stops.. that points to the circuity with the faulty device Paul
Michel Kohanim Posted April 21, 2017 Posted April 21, 2017 Hi Karen, Hopefully you have a good backup from BEFORE the PLM died. If you do, please follow the step by step instructions here: http://wiki.universal-devices.com/index.php?title=ISY-99i/ISY-26_INSTEON:File_Menu#Restore_Devices This should fix all your problems. With kind regards, Michel
Karen L Posted April 22, 2017 Author Posted April 22, 2017 Karen, sorry this is happening Thank you Paul, I'll get it fixed one way or the other. I moved into my Uncle's house about a year ago and this system has been working great. He travels extensively so he pointed me to this forum for help. I've been reading the forums and Wiki for about 6 months and I work in IT so I know just enough to be dangerous Thank you to everyone !! Here are a few things to try: Check your programs - are the icons next to any of them constantly blinking? if yes, disable, then retry restore modem The programs do not have any blinking icons Since the PLM is new, lets suspect it. Do a factory reset of it, and then restore modem again. Same issues Some devices have the ability to "blink on traffic" or "LED on TX" so you can see Insteon activity on the powerline- their led will flash. Do you have a switch that did restore that you can turn on "blink on traffic"? If its continually blinking, a device has potentially become confused in the process. If you have constant blinking, try shutting off breakers, one at a time until it stops.. that points to the circuity with the faulty deviceI had one lamp link that has a rapidly blinking LED. It's been like that for about 6 months but the system never displayed any negative affects. The lamp link works fine. The Event viewer level 3 does not show activity so I assumed it's just an internal issue with the lamp link. Paul
Karen L Posted April 22, 2017 Author Posted April 22, 2017 Hi Karen, Hopefully you have a good backup from BEFORE the PLM died. If you do, please follow the step by step instructions here: http://wiki.universal-devices.com/index.php?title=ISY-99i/ISY-26_INSTEON:File_Menu#Restore_Devices This should fix all your problems. With kind regards, Michel Thank you Michel! I have followed the directions to a "T" with the same results. I am starting to wonder if my backups are any good . The system was working fine when I made my backups. I have 4 backups in March. I make a backup after any changes in programs, scenes or after adding a new device. I'm in the middle of restoring a backup from late 2016.
paulbates Posted April 22, 2017 Posted April 22, 2017 (edited) Karen Michel's advice would be next I would say though, first find another device that will blink on traffic and enable it and validate that.. A beaconing device, creating lots of traffic, would be a cause for of everything being slow. Paul Edited April 22, 2017 by paulbates
Karen L Posted April 23, 2017 Author Posted April 23, 2017 Well I restored a backup from last November, the majority of my devices were working very well. Then I did a PLM restore followed by a device restore to make sure everything was synced up. Now I have communication problems (red exclamation). I tried some other backups before SW V4.5.4 but have similar communication problems. My Uncle is going to kill me when he learns I trashed his automation I am so frustrated (I hate the PLM). I've been at this since 7:00AM this morning I really want to start from scratch. I'm talking, total scratch. I have a topology report so I know what devices are in the house and what scenes they are in. I also copied all the programs. What's the best way to rebuild? Should I delete every device one at a time then delete the PLM and do a factory reset on the PLM. Then do a factory reset on the ISY. Boot the ISY and start adding each device (check the box to "delete all existing links").
stusviews Posted April 23, 2017 Posted April 23, 2017 (edited) It you really, really want to start from scratch, then you should factory reset each device before adding it to the ISY. But, a red exclamation indicate bad communication, as you've noted. You may end up with the same problem. About how many (of how many) devices display the problem? Edited April 23, 2017 by stusviews 1
paulbates Posted April 23, 2017 Posted April 23, 2017 Karen How many devices are !? I would start by addressing those. I wouldn't uninstall and reinstall each device from the ISY,,, Instead do the factory reset of the device, and then use Restore Device... one by one. That can go quickly if you have a laptop with the admin console to take around with you. (Typically a factory reset is unplug for 10 seconds, hold the set button while plugging back in and hold it until the beeping stops (or 10 seconds). For switches use the airgap by pulling the tab under the paddle out for 10 seconds, then push it all the way in until it beeps or ~10 seconds). Once ! devices are addressed, see how it runs before deciding to rebuild the entire network. This kind of thing can happen every once in a long while. Paul 1
Karen L Posted April 23, 2017 Author Posted April 23, 2017 Thanks Stusviews and Paul About 30 devices have ! (about 1/2). The odd thing is when, depending on which backup I use the comm issues move around. With a March backup the garage and mudroom KPL's always communicate, with a February backup they both always come up with ! , I verified both backups see the correct device ID. Sometimes I can get them communicating between write updates and restoring that particular device and sometimes not. 1. I know there is a risk that something happened on the house wiring that can cause this but my gut tells me that's not the problem. 2. The event viewer seems to look normal while the device is restoring. Lots of TX, ACK, SRX and no NACK's. but still ends up with a 1011 or red !. 3. My gut tells me it's the PLM In regards to starting from scratch. I didn't think I would need to factory reset each device? When I add a device and select to "Delete all existing links", doesn't that clear the device? Or is there something else that gets reset? I'm going to take a break today. I hope you guys enjoy your Sunday! Thanks a bunch, Lots of Love. Karen
paulbates Posted April 23, 2017 Posted April 23, 2017 Karen One one more suggestion is to turn in a ticket to UDI. Things don't normally drive off the road this far. UDI is very responsive and is definitely the best at this. http://www.universal-devices.com/contact-support/ Post a very brief summary and a link to this thread in the support request, someone will call. Also, I'm pretty sure your uncle will get that "Insteon is Insteon", and this sort of thing happens from time to time... if not, there's a bunch of us here that can explain it Paul 1
Karen L Posted April 23, 2017 Author Posted April 23, 2017 (edited) Guys, Can you please confirm these statements? 1. If I restore ISY with an older backup then I Must do a PLM Restore followed by a Devices Restore. Otherwise the PLM and Devices will not have the links from that particular backup? 2. After a ISY restore (with an older backup). I must always do a PLM Restore first (before a Device Restore). Because the Device Restore, restores with the table in the PLM? 3. Some of my devices that have a red !, still work from the Admin console (on and off commands work fine) When I do this the red exclamation goes away and turns to a 1011. If it turns to a 1011, I do an individual Write updates to this device, then, sometimes the 1011 goes away , sometimes it stays 1011 and sometimes it goes back to a red ! . This is because there is still a communication issue? Edited April 23, 2017 by Karen L
Karen L Posted April 23, 2017 Author Posted April 23, 2017 Karen One one more suggestion is to turn in a ticket to UDI. Things don't normally drive off the road this far. UDI is very responsive and is definitely the best at this. http://www.universal-devices.com/contact-support/ Post a very brief summary and a link to this thread in the support request, someone will call. Also, I'm pretty sure your uncle will get that "Insteon is Insteon", and this sort of thing happens from time to time... if not, there's a bunch of us here that can explain it Paul I will take this advice. Thanks Paul!
Teken Posted April 23, 2017 Posted April 23, 2017 In regards to starting from scratch. I didn't think I would need to factory reset each device? When I add a device and select to "Delete all existing links", doesn't that clear the device? Or is there something else that gets reset? A hard reset will bring the device back to a known OEM base line state. You can think of a *Delete all existing links* as a soft reboot. Where as a hard reset is like pulling the outlet in the wall and wiping out the memory card / hard drive format. If you have been around computers long enough you will know a soft boot does not always work as one would expect. Where as a hard reboot (remove power) always does . . . A hard reset will delete any half links, ghost programming, and set the hardware to a known default state. 30 devices isn't too many to hard reset but when you reach 60 plus. You really need to be committed and have patience and time to complete this task. If the home has some kind of noise maker / signal sucker present the bulk of this will be a lot harder. But for now your first task is to confirm proper coupling of split single phase electrical system via the 4 tap beacon test outlined in any full users manual. The 2413S PLM user guide will explain the steps and what your looking for. You could find for what ever reason you simply don't have proper coupling and hence the red exclamation marks. If its noise the best thing to do so you remain sane is to unplug every thing in the home until your able to complete the PLM restore / ISY Restore etc. Anything that can't be unplugged like fridges, freezer, HVAC, etc can be temporarily shut off via the breakers. Good luck . . .
larryllix Posted April 23, 2017 Posted April 23, 2017 Thanks Stusviews and Paul About 30 devices have ! (about 1/2). The odd thing is when, depending on which backup I use the comm issues move around. With a March backup the garage and mudroom KPL's always communicate, with a February backup they both always come up with ! , I verified both backups see the correct device ID. Sometimes I can get them communicating between write updates and restoring that particular device and sometimes not. 1. I know there is a risk that something happened on the house wiring that can cause this but my gut tells me that's not the problem. 2. The event viewer seems to look normal while the device is restoring. Lots of TX, ACK, SRX and no NACK's. but still ends up with a 1011 or red !. 3. My gut tells me it's the PLM In regards to starting from scratch. I didn't think I would need to factory reset each device? When I add a device and select to "Delete all existing links", doesn't that clear the device? Or is there something else that gets reset? I'm going to take a break today. I hope you guys enjoy your Sunday! Thanks a bunch, Lots of Love. Karen The delete all links doesn't seem to do it for me and that is only incurred when linking a device not known to ISY. The factory reset (Paul's advice) of each device and restore is quick and easy and the factory reset clears out locked up program routines and data in the devices. No unassociation required in ISY.
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