Scene Test?

[NewTech]

What should I expect to see with the scene test feature? I played around with it tonight and I'm not sure what I'm looking for. What does "Change Level" do??? Here's why I was using the scene test feature...

 

I have a scene called "Great Room Accent Lighting" which sets various lamps to a dimmed state. My problem is that not all lamps respond with the command from the ISY/PLM. (The scene uses RemoteLinc button 5 to activate ISY to send the signals to set-up the Accent Lighting scene.) I used the scene test feature and some of the lights, although not always the same lights, failed sometimes but passed other times.

 

I thought Insteon modules reported the status (Off/On/Dim/Bright) back to the ISY and would not show a module as being ON when it is actually OFF or never turn on in the first place. Is this not true?

 

Thanks for your assistance with this!

[IndyMike]

Hello NewTech,

 

The scene test feature (Tools/Diagnostic/Scene Test) is intended to be a "worst case" test of the cleanup responses after a scene is activated. There's a Wiki page on the subject here: Scene_Test

 

When operating under "Direct Control" Insteon commands are sent to a device. The device is then required to respond with an acknowledge (or negative acknowledge). If the recipient does not respond to the command, the sender retries xx times.

 

Scenes are a bit different. The sender sends out 1 command to activate the scene causing all of the recipients to go to their respective levels. The sender then issues a "cleanup command" to determine whether all of the devices responded properly. The Scene Test is designed to check this cleanup command/response. There are a number of limitations related to cleanup commands:

1) Both the command and response are limited to 1 Hop (1 rebroadcast). This may not be enough in some installations (direct and scene commands are 3 HOP).

2) Cleanup responses may be aborted due to other Insteon traffic on the powerline.

3) Some devices (Lamplincs with local control enabled) will not respond if no load is attached (or if the load is switched off).

 

Note that the items above don't stop the scene from working. It's just that under certain circumstances a scene member may not respond.

 

Since there are limitations to the device response after a scene, the ISY is forced to use a predictive status (the device is on because I just turned it on).

 

Since your scene is intermittent, you may have better luck querying the devices or turning them on directly from the device GUI. This uses the direct protocol and will indicate any errors in the device response.

 

Can you give us some more details on the devices and loads in your Great Room? In newer homes the lighting circuits are typically wired separate from the outlets. Devices having problems on a lighting circuit may indicate noise problems due to CFL's, Fan Motors, Low voltage lighting, etc. Devices having problems on outlet circuit could be due to signal absorption/noise from plug in devices (TV/Stereo/Computer).

 

IM

 

What should I expect to see with the scene test feature? I played around with it tonight and I'm not sure what I'm looking for. What does "Change Level" do??? Here's why I was using the scene test feature...

 

I have a scene called "Great Room Accent Lighting" which sets various lamps to a dimmed state. My problem is that not all lamps respond with the command from the ISY/PLM. (The scene uses RemoteLinc button 5 to activate ISY to send the signals to set-up the Accent Lighting scene.) I used the scene test feature and some of the lights, although not always the same lights, failed sometimes but passed other times.

 

I thought Insteon modules reported the status (Off/On/Dim/Bright) back to the ISY and would not show a module as being ON when it is actually OFF or never turn on in the first place. Is this not true?

 

Thanks for your assistance with this!

[NewTech]

In our Great Room we have our TV, stereo equipment, satellite converter box and a laptop power supply. The wall outlets where the two lamplincs are plugged into (on either side of the sofa) are the ones that don't always respond. The stereo/TV equipment are in the same room and on the same circuit. I have noise filters on all of the TV/stereo equipment and unplugging the laptop power supply makes no difference. There is nothing else in the room (on the circuit) that could be causing noise. We don't have any CFL's except in our laundry room and a few closets. The laundry room is at the other end of the house away from the great room. The closets are back by the bedrooms.

 

I have button #5 on the RemoteLinc programmed to activate the scene. In the "Great Room Accent Lighting" scene I DO NOT have that button as a controller. Instead I have it as an "If" in the program of the ISY- If RemoteLinc button 5 ON is pressed, activate scene. I tried making the RemoteLinc a controller in the scene and the problem didn't improve even after disabling the scene in the program details of the ISY.

 

I probably need to tell you that I am just getting started with Insteon (replacing a rapidly failing X-10 system) and right now only have 4 LampLinc's and 3 KeypadLinc's. I'm also still on my learning curve with the ISY but each time I discover something that didn't work when supposed to I learn a little more about the programming of the ISY- learn from my mistakes! Yesterday afternoon/evening was really the first time I was able to sit down with the ISY and really do some serious programming.

 

IndyMike- Thanks for your assistance with this and using terms that someone new to the ISY can understand. I hope the above information is what you wanted.

[Brian H]

Noise Filters or filters made for X10 and Insteon use?

Many noise filters will absorb both X10 and Insteon signals as both to a standard filter are noise.

Some of the better surge suppressor strips with noise filters can also be a problem.

I have a Smarthome FilterLinc on my electronics setup and a 10 amp FilterLinc on my APC BX1000 UPS. Yes both are for X10 but they also work well on Insteon as it uses a power line signal not too far away from the X10 one.

[NewTech]

They are all Insteon noise filters purchased from SmartHome about two months ago. Unplugging them brings back old X-10 signal issues so I know they're working!

[Brian H]

OK that gives more data to think on.

Do you know the Hardware Revision on the sticker on the back of the modules.

I have had poor results with the new Rev 4.1 ApplianceLincs.

I have one Rev 4.3 LampLinc but I have not done much testing with it.

[NewTech]

Still at work but will check later tonight when I get home.

 

Thanks!

[NewTech]

The hardware revision is 4.3 on all four of my LampLinc's. I've only had them since late January 2009 so they should be the newest version/revision.

[Michel Kohanim]

Hello NewTech,

 

I do recommend the following:

1. As others have suggested, I would certainly put a FilterLinc on the entertainment devices (TV, etc.)

2. If you have any access points, try moving them closer to the troubled switch (hopefully on the same phase)

 

Please do keep us posted.

 

With kind regards,

Michel

 

The hardware revision is 4.3 on all four of my LampLinc's. I've only had them since late January 2009 so they should be the newest version/revision.

[NewTech]

Michel,

 

I may have discovered my problem. Since most of my system is still X-10 (I'm slowly changing over to Insteon as funds permit) I am still using my old Plato SmartLinc system to control the X-10. I believe Plato is absorbing some of my Insteon traffic because unplugging Plato's interface seem to have solved the problem.

 

I do have FilterLinc's on all of my stereo/TV equipment both in our great room and our bedroom. I also have two access points- one in the foyer and one in the great room which should be enough in our small condo and they are placed on separate phases of the power. In fact, one of the access points is plugged into the non-controlled outlet of the LampLinc's in question because I just don't have that many free outlets! Maybe it's too close!?!

 

Thanks for everyone's help on this matter but I think, for the most part, I've discovered my problem.

 

PS: Your next question will probably be, "Why aren't I using ISY to control my X-10?" Two reasons... 1) I think using Insteon and X-10 together slows down the ISY and 2) I just can't bear to pack up my Plato!

[Michel Kohanim]

Hello NewTech,

 

Thanks so very much for the update.

 

My only comment is that X10/INSTEON combination in no way slows down ISY (in case you ever wish to pack your Plato). This said, however, the PLM is not as good as handling X10 as it is INSTEON.

 

With kind regards,

Michel