Is Insteon dead?

[Goose66]

There are posts in the "Press" section of the Insteon.com website as new as January of 2018, but it appears there has been no new products since the Motion Detector v2, which is over two years old now. Are Insteon products still be developed? Is there an end date for these products that has been announced?

[Bumbershoot]

Have a look/listen here.  https://www.thedigitalmediazone.com/2018/10/18/whats-going-on-with-insteon/

[Brian H]

I saw the podcast. Steve Lee did indicate new things are in the works but could not comment on exactly what.

[larryllix]

Yawn. 
Looks like they have no idea what to do next. We are going to, we are going to, we are going to...

I just received two more defective design Leak Detectors. The PCBs do not fit inside the case. Brilliant engineering and even more impressive QC....NOT!

I still use only their products though. Their basics are still the best IMHO.

[etsvilik]

Re : leak detectors.  I'm throwing out all insteon leak detectors.  Once few drops of water gets on the detector the boards are fried, contacts rusted etc.. It is  a "disposable" one shot detector.  They could have coat the PCB's at least.  Replacing all with z-Wave Homeseer leak sensors. Z-Wave looks more  and more attractive.. with each shot of tequila

[Goose66]

I guess it is a little reassuring to see a guy in an Insteon shirt at a show. But no information in the article or the interview on what may be coming, other than "it will be better ... down the road at some time."

And I don't buy for a minute that this guy has traveled all over the World installing Insteon. I mean, does it even work in 50Hz electrical systems?

[lilyoyo1]

4 minutes ago, Goose66 said:

I guess it is a little reassuring to see a guy in an Insteon shirt at a show. But no information in the article or the interview on what may be coming.

And I don't buy for a minute that this guy has travelled all over the World installing Insteon. I mean, does it even work in 50Hz electrical systems?

Actually the answer to both is yes. Steve Lee is known in many circles as an automation guru. Hell, he's personally helped me a lot when I first learned about insteon. 

[paulbates]

https://www.insteon.com/where-to-buy/

Scroll down after America and Canada to see their world markets. They’ve sold across Europe for at least 5 years. But I digress from the point here; it’s time for the 10th annual “Insteon is going out of business” thread. Carry on.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[asbril]

1 hour ago, paulbates said:

https://www.insteon.com/where-to-buy/

Scroll down after America and Canada to see their world markets. They’ve sold across Europe for at least 5 years. But I digress from the point here; it’s time for the 10th annual “Insteon is going out of business” thread. Carry on.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Atari is also still available on Amazon.

[larryllix]

Here is an example of Insteon's new promise engineering.  Battery isolator strip pulls out and catches  battery negative end spring, damaging it. (bottom end of battery)

 

 

 

Here is the previous Rev2.0 design without this stupidity.

 

[lilyoyo1]

1 hour ago, asbril said:

Atari is also still available on Amazon.

As Paul stated, this is the umpteenth time insteon's demise has been bought up....in the meantime, I see more zwave companies going out of business. That's not an indictment of zwave just the resilience of insteon. 

[mwester]

? ? And umpteen times I've heard of the demise of the horse-and-buggy.  Yet, in the meantime, I've seen many automobile companies go out of business.  That's not an indictment of the automobile, just the resilience of the horse-and-buggy.

 

(Disclaimer, lest someone think I'm being disrespectful to those communities who choose to eschew modern technology -- I have a lot of respect for those folks, especially the ones who live up in this latitude near me -- it's a tough way to live, to still plow the fields with horses, drive to the markets with horses and wagons, and somehow manage to run a sustainable farm without electricity, tractors, cars, etc.)

 

By the way, I mentioned somewhere on this forum that I wouldn't be buying any more Insteon devices, I think that was a year or so ago.  Turns out I lied.  I just got Yet Another FilterLinc today -- bringing to total number of FilterLincs littering my walls up to be about the same as the number of actual functioning Insteon devices... the point being that Insteon's core technology (power-line signaling) is dying in the age of switching power supplies and LED lighting.  The days of the perfect sine wave are gone, just like the days where we expected to see hitching posts in front of the general store for our horses.  You can still love your horses.  And nobody says you should get rid of them.  But do recognize that the buggy manufacturers who didn't diversify to make automobile bodies and parts died out at some point, and so it will be with Insteon/SmartHome.

[etsvilik]

I agree with mwester points. I also think Insteon needs to decouple power-line and RF and make RF as a primary communication protocol. Power-line coms being grandfathered for compatibility or as a backup.  Tired of Filter-links clogging outlets. 

[lilyoyo1]

12 hours ago, mwester said:

? ? And umpteen times I've heard of the demise of the horse-and-buggy.  Yet, in the meantime, I've seen many automobile companies go out of business.  That's not an indictment of the automobile, just the resilience of the horse-and-buggy.

 

(Disclaimer, lest someone think I'm being disrespectful to those communities who choose to eschew modern technology -- I have a lot of respect for those folks, especially the ones who live up in this latitude near me -- it's a tough way to live, to still plow the fields with horses, drive to the markets with horses and wagons, and somehow manage to run a sustainable farm without electricity, tractors, cars, etc.)

 

By the way, I mentioned somewhere on this forum that I wouldn't be buying any more Insteon devices, I think that was a year or so ago.  Turns out I lied.  I just got Yet Another FilterLinc today -- bringing to total number of FilterLincs littering my walls up to be about the same as the number of actual functioning Insteon devices... the point being that Insteon's core technology (power-line signaling) is dying in the age of switching power supplies and LED lighting.  The days of the perfect sine wave are gone, just like the days where we expected to see hitching posts in front of the general store for our horses.  You can still love your horses.  And nobody says you should get rid of them.  But do recognize that the buggy manufacturers who didn't diversify to make automobile bodies and parts died out at some point, and so it will be with Insteon/SmartHome.

There is no perfect system. Your comment about Powerline and needing a filterlinc is akin to someone saying zwave is terrible because they need 2-3 devices just to communicate with a lock 20 feet away. Your issue isn't a problem with Insteon, the problem is insteon in your particular home. There are many many people using insteon without issues just like there are zwave people without issues.  RF only is not perfect at all. 

Personally in this day and age, I think its foolhardy to go all in on any 1 protocol. Why do that when you can pick and choose the best technology for any particular situation. 

[Michel Kohanim]

15 hours ago, Goose66 said:

I guess it is a little reassuring to see a guy in an Insteon shirt at a show. But no information in the article or the interview on what may be coming, other than "it will be better ... down the road at some time."

And I don't buy for a minute that this guy has traveled all over the World installing Insteon. I mean, does it even work in 50Hz electrical systems?

@Goose66,

I have personally known Steve for over 12 years and a) I know for a fact that he has done INSTEON installations around the world the most recent ones of which were in Taiwan and Brazil and b) he's also on UD's tech support team (when you call our tech support, he's the one who picks up the phone) and I have tons of emails from customers wanting to express their satisfaction with how Steve made their day. So, in short, as much as I have my own apprehensions about SmartHome, I do believe whatever Steve says.

With kind regards,
Michel

[asbril]

10 minutes ago, Michel Kohanim said:

@Goose66,

I have personally known Steve for over 12 years and a) I know for a fact that he has done INSTEON installations around the world the most recent ones of which were in Taiwan and Brazil and b) he's also on UD's tech support team (when you call our tech support, he's the one who picks up the phone) and I have tons of emails from customers wanting to express their satisfaction with how Steve made their day. So, in short, as much as I have my own apprehensions about SmartHome, I do believe whatever Steve says.

With kind regards,
Michel

I confirm.... Some time ago I called UD tech support and Steve answered from Sao Paolo airport  !  The world's best customer support.

[oberkc]

I had the same experience as Asbril (though I do not know from where he was talking on the phone).  He went well above the call of duty.

[silverton38]

Insteon has some advantages over Z-wave and Zigbee. 

I have installed home automation in a lot of homes. If the house is older and the electric boxes are shorter then Insteon is the only solution because their devices are short. I find all of the Z-wave devices are quite fat;  fine for new homes but not for old ones. I look at the wireline communications as an add on not the primary form of communication. RF is the best way for the devices to communicate but if there is an RF dead zone then wireline really helps.

Today I am mixing my homes with both Z-wave and Insteon because I find that some Z-wave devices just do not match what Insteon can do and that some Insteon devices can not match what Z-wave can do. For example;  I find the Keypadlics and single mini remotes work well even if they control is a Z-wave device. Z-wave tends to be very reliable, multi-tap support, fan switches and has more low cost devices.

The key here is the ISY994ZW/IR PRO. Even if you think you will do an Insteon only home I would advice the ZW add on because it gives you extra options.

Will Insteon survive; I truly hope they do!!!!

 

 

[Techman]

I was told that Smartlabs / Insteon is focusing on their Hub and their smartphone apps.

They've also eliminated some devices from their product line,  i.e. Wireless Thermostat and the Synchrolinc.  It's still too early to tell what direction the new owner will be taking the Company in.

[etsvilik]

Giving that Insteon is a resurrected X10 - they have good chances to stay relevant long term . If one believes in Lindy Effect.  

My point about RF was that I find puzzling the current protocol. AFAIK If power line communication in Insteon  is crippled -  RF is not taking over. It should be a huge advantage to use both methods as fail over for each other.  

 

[Goose66]

I sent them many messages over several years to get access to the API for the hub as a developer without ever getting so much as a confirmation email. Steve may be a great guy, but he doesn't own Insteon or SmartLabs, right?

[lilyoyo1]

1 hour ago, etsvilik said:

Giving that Insteon is a resurrected X10 - they have good chances to stay relevant long term . If one believes in Lindy Effect.  

My point about RF was that I find puzzling the current protocol. AFAIK If power line communication in Insteon  is crippled -  RF is not taking over. It should be a huge advantage to use both methods as fail over for each other.  

 

Insteon isnt a resurrected x10. It is its own protocol in regards to how it communicates, frequency etc. Yes Insteon allows its devices to speak to x10 devices but should one do that, they lose the benefits of insteon. With that said, I do get your point in regards to decoupling. some devices have this ability. Hopefully one day in the future they will bring it to all of them. Personally, I prefer both. Its much easier to fix line noise than troubleshoot RF interference.

[larryllix]

2 hours ago, lilyoyo1 said:

Insteon isnt a resurrected x10. It is its own protocol in regards to how it communicates, frequency etc. Yes Insteon allows its devices to speak to x10 devices but should one do that, they lose the benefits of insteon. With that said, I do get your point in regards to decoupling. some devices have this ability. Hopefully one day in the future they will bring it to all of them. Personally, I prefer both. Its much easier to fix line noise than troubleshoot RF interference.

Eliminate powerline? No. Decouple them them? Yes.
I can see the original Insteon  powerline protocol to continue to exist for distance and usually reliability. 
I can see the Insteon RF to completely change into a higher throughput protocol that is not coupled, nor synchronised to powerline at all. I am not sure how that would logically work but the speed of RF is desirable. RF is a problem with metal electrical boxes and short distance. Maybe it doesn't have to be.

[etsvilik]

Exactly my point. Power line being as fail over protocol for RF to extend the reach. Powerline component of Insteon device may work in similar fashion to WiFi powerline  extenders. It delivers comms to further distance and allows remote device to act as an Insteon RF access point. Mixed media mesh.

RF can be made more reliable. Lutron Radio RA are pretty solid albeit high cost. It takes higher quality components, stable oscillators and noise reduction techniques. I found CAO sensors being very reliable RF devices with great range.

[lilyoyo1]

RadioRa has issues in itself as well as needing the use of repeaters just any other technology. With that said, to compare radio ra or any other high end system to insteon or zwave is comparing apples to oranges.

First off is cost. Generally you get what you pay for. The same quality and performance will come with an increase in cost. Pepple already look for the cheapest devices so increasing cost  isn't an option.

Secondly radio ra is professionally Installed. Done properly this means someone else is doing the designing, installing, and troubleshooting rather than the end user. This means the things you go through now would be done by someone else. The end result is the appearance of a trouble free system when reality is, the kinks were worked out for you.