Motion-triggered lighting in home theater

[oberkc]

Well, you could certainly trigger lights based upon motion.  Given the relative static nature of watching movies, I doubt that you would want a short time-out period.  I would also be hard to determine when the movie was over or when everyone had left the room.  In my mind, it would be difficult to do much interesting if all you have is a motion sensor (or two).

Also, if turning on the "av gear" and screen was so onerous as to discourage its use, I think I would be first looking to simplify this process.  Do you not have this function automated via a single remote or control system?  Like some of the others, I am a fan of the harmony hubs, but I am sure there are other options.  Furthermore, if you were to do this in a way that would integrate with you home automation system, this could solve your lighting task.  

While not "automation", I still find uses for light switches and don't find them offensive to use from time-to-time.  Keypad buttons for different lighting scenes are not something that should be quickly dismissed.  While complete automation might be nice, there are practical limitations.  (Even in Star Trek they had to ask the computer to adjust the lights on occasion.)  It sounds as if your theater is in the basement, right?  One of my most-used switches is one at the top of the basement stairs that, in addition to turning on/off stair lights, is programmed to turn off all lights in the basement.  That could include the theater room, gym, workshop, whatever.  Maybe a nice compromise for your theater room would be something like this?

[lilyoyo1]

40 minutes ago, oberkc said:

Well, you could certainly trigger lights based upon motion.  Given the relative static nature of watching movies, I doubt that you would want a short time-out period.  I would also be hard to determine when the movie was over or when everyone had left the room.  In my mind, it would be difficult to do much interesting if all you have is a motion sensor (or two).

Also, if turning on the "av gear" and screen was so onerous as to discourage its use, I think I would be first looking to simplify this process.  Do you not have this function automated via a single remote or control system?  Like some of the others, I am a fan of the harmony hubs, but I am sure there are other options.  Furthermore, if you were to do this in a way that would integrate with you home automation system, this could solve your lighting task.  

While not "automation", I still find uses for light switches and don't find them offensive to use from time-to-time.  Keypad buttons for different lighting scenes are not something that should be quickly dismissed.  While complete automation might be nice, there are practical limitations.  (Even in Star Trek they had to ask the computer to adjust the lights on occasion.)  It sounds as if your theater is in the basement, right?  One of my most-used switches is one at the top of the basement stairs that, in addition to turning on/off stair lights, is programmed to turn off all lights in the basement.  That could include the theater room, gym, workshop, whatever.  Maybe a nice compromise for your theater room would be something like this?

That's what I do with my theater. I have a kpl with the activity the room will be used for programmed in certain buttons. If I'm watching a movie, it'll open up the screen and projector, turn on everything needed for a movie and put the lights on a timer. Hitting pause during this time will turn the lights on 30% so someone can go to the bathroom etc. If we're just entertaining or just want to watch TV the same thing happens. It'll turn on the TV and cable box along with seeing the lights to where we want them. 

[TomL]

You mentioned a Door.  Could you not use an open close or hidden door sensor?

[larryllix]

1 hour ago, TomL said:

You mentioned a Door.  Could you not use an open close or hidden door sensor?

Except you have to get up and find the door possibly with no TV illumination on.

[apostolakisl]

I still don't get the reason to ever use motion sensor to light a movie theater.  Someone gets up to go to the bathroom or get a soda, the lights come on?  Movie theater lighting is typically automated to what is playing on the screen, not to the movements of the people, just like at the local movie theater.  And/or you put a button on the remote to manually dim/brighten the lights.  Movie theater lights are not supposed to be off when the movie is running either.  They are supposed to be very dim.  Just like at the real movie theater.  That is so you can get up and go to the bathroom even during a dark scene without bothering everyone else.  It is also more comfortable on the eyes to have a slight amount of ambient light.  And commonly movie rooms are for watching sports.  People are constantly in and out during sports events with half times and commercial breaks.

I automated my lights to go dim whenever a movie/broadcast event is playing.  If I hit pause or stop, the lights go back to full.  Or if I hit the button that directly controls the lights I can go bright, dim, or off.  I just can't imagine a role for motion detection that wouldn't do the wrong thing more often than not.

[ISY Newbie]

11 hours ago, TrojanHorse said:

-what remote are you using in the HT? Harmony would be ideal
- does your ISY have the IR sensor installed?
- are you running 5.x firmware on ISY? Node servers?
- Is there a door on the theatre that could have a sensor? Is it closed when you watch movies?

In a simple explanation like @LarryLix mentioned you need to track the state of the theatre. Are you watching a movie or not?

If you just had 1 motion sensor in the theatre, I would have it enabled to turn on the lights if you’re not watching a movie otherwise disable that program. If it’s an Insteon motion sensor (which I don’t use anymore) I wouldn’t have it linked to the lights via scene. Deal with the 1 second delay by running a program and simply enable or disable the program based on whether the movie is playing.

The above questions will help determine how you can keep track of the state of the theatre (movie playing true or false)? Then you can think about things like - what to do when you pause the movie?

 

- I had harmony a while ago, but I ditched it when it couldn't handle Fire TV stick and required an upgrade to expensive Harmony hub. Now everything is controlled from the iPad through native apps - AV receiver, Fire TV Stick, and cable TV. 

- still 4.x with no node server. But I can easily install node servers on a 24/7 Windows computer.

- Yes, there is a door on the theater, without a sensor yet. I'm exploring adding a sensor too.

 

I want to go back to getting status signal from the AV receiver. That will be the most direct and accurate indicator, as you suggested. Where do I start?

[ISY Newbie]

3 hours ago, lilyoyo1 said:

That's what I do with my theater. I have a kpl with the activity the room will be used for programmed in certain buttons. If I'm watching a movie, it'll open up the screen and projector, turn on everything needed for a movie and put the lights on a timer. Hitting pause during this time will turn the lights on 30% so someone can go to the bathroom etc. If we're just entertaining or just want to watch TV the same thing happens. It'll turn on the TV and cable box along with seeing the lights to where we want them. 

Is installing a KPL just as easy as installing an Insteon light switch? 

I'd like to explore that idea too.

[apostolakisl]

33 minutes ago, ISY Newbie said:

 

- I had harmony a while ago, but I ditched it when it couldn't handle Fire TV stick and required an upgrade to expensive Harmony hub. Now everything is controlled from the iPad through native apps - AV receiver, Fire TV Stick, and cable TV. 

- still 4.x with no node server. But I can easily install node servers on a 24/7 Windows computer.

- Yes, there is a door on the theater, without a sensor yet. I'm exploring adding a sensor too.

 

I want to go back to getting status signal from the AV receiver. That will be the most direct and accurate indicator, as you suggested. Where do I start?

If you have a receiver on the list of receivers with node servers, then you can do it.  You would need to upgrade to the latest ISY firmware and either get a polisy or rpi to install polyglot on.  If your receiver is not listed on polyglot, then it would be a ton of work and/or not really even be possible.  Still, your receiver doesn't know what content is on the screen and if it is paused or playing.  The remote does.  This is what a smart remote does, it puts everything into the proper state with a single press. 

Not a fan of things like ipads to control your AV system since they aren't dedicated and tend to have the wrong app up, needs to be plugged in to charge, no hard buttons (have to look at it rather than just feel the buttons), and is expensive.  Harmony Hub is a lot cheaper than an ipad and is perfectly matched to the task at hand.  However, sticking with your ipad is probably very doable and perhaps easier to configure since it requires only the use of REST commands.  I assume that your ipad AV program has the ability to send REST commands.  So that is all you would need to do.  Set it up to send REST commands for light bright/dim/off in concert with the hitting buttons for play, pause, off, or whatever you like.  This requires no programs or changes to ISY at all, no polyglot, no nodeservers, etc.  For example, a simple command like http://user:password@isy.ip.address/rest/nodes/1A.23.3B/cmd/DON/25  sets the light at node 1A.23.3B to 10% brightness.  (x/255=brightness where x is the number you put at the end of the command)

https://wiki.universal-devices.com/index.php?title=ISY_Developers:API:REST_Interface.  

[lilyoyo1]

1 hour ago, ISY Newbie said:

Is installing a KPL just as easy as installing an Insteon light switch? 

I'd like to explore that idea too.

Yes. It's still a standard switch. Just more options

[oberkc]

Quote

I want to go back to getting status signal from the AV receiver. That will be the most direct and accurate indicator, as you suggested. Where do I start?

I am certainly no expert here, but if you have the skills to identify the network command issued by your app associated with the “play” command, perhaps a network  resource could be used to trigger a program in the ISY.  A harmony hub, along with the harmony nodeserver, would certainly work to trigger an ISY program based upon the harmony movie activity.  I recall that there are apps (simple remote, formerly roomie is one that I recall) on tablets/phones that can communicate with AV gear and the ISY.  Perhaps something like that could be programmed to trigger lighting along with a movie.  There also used to be a device called IRLinc that was pretty handy for this, but it would not be much good if you are using the network to control your AV devices.  

[TrojanHorse]

3 hours ago, ISY Newbie said:

 

- I had harmony a while ago, but I ditched it when it couldn't handle Fire TV stick and required an upgrade to expensive Harmony hub. Now everything is controlled from the iPad through native apps - AV receiver, Fire TV Stick, and cable TV. 

- still 4.x with no node server. But I can easily install node servers on a 24/7 Windows computer.

- Yes, there is a door on the theater, without a sensor yet. I'm exploring adding a sensor too.

 

I want to go back to getting status signal from the AV receiver. That will be the most direct and accurate indicator, as you suggested. Where do I start?

Unfortunately it sounds like right now there's not a round peg for a round hole.  You'll have to choose a path that will require a few intermediate steps.  

I think you have a few options.  1 - upgrade to 5.x and use a node server, probably this one here: https://github.com/firstone/RESTRemote  or buy a Harmony remote and use this one: https://github.com/jimboca/udi-harmony-poly  But you'll first need to decide if you want to run 5.x.  2nd option - send IR codes to the ISY with a remote - requires the IR module on ISY and the ability to get the signal there, maybe via an IR repeater.  3rd option - custom apps.  I don't think the native apps you refer to will work since you generally can't modify them to send a REST command to the ISY.  So I think that means either Mobilinc (which isn't really an A/V app) or Roomie or something similar.  

Option 1 is probably the cleanest and most robust since it will detect the state of your receiver regardless of how it changes, whereas methods 2 and 3 would require the command to come through a specific remote or app.  But it also requires a bit of work to get it set up and you have to be very methodical about the firmware upgrade.  

Another consideration is that the AV node server will likely work to track your receiver, but probably not your TV or projector input, whether you've paused the Fire stick or cable DVR, etc.  So for those cases, I think your options are the Harmony hub node server (I don't use this, yet...) or old fashioned IR to the ISY.  

So I don't think there's a definitive "best answer" and there are other options than what I've listed.  You'll need to decide what you're trying to accomplish and how much time and money you want to invest to get it going.  Good, cheap, fast - pick 2...

 

[dbwarner5]

5 hours ago, ISY Newbie said:

Is installing a KPL just as easy as installing an Insteon light switch? 

I'd like to explore that idea too.

@ISY Newbie Bottom line, there is a TON of ways to automate your life. You will need to decide the balance of complexity of setup / programming vs how much you want to exactly meet every situation. By reading all of the posts and accepting your newbie experience, I would suggest simplifying and growing as follows:

-Use the MS to initially turn on the lights upon entering.

-Add a 6 button keypad to a light switch somewhere handy.

-upon entering, decide which "scene" you want from the keypad, and press that button. 

-This would then initiate a series of programs: 1)disable the MS until either a certain time expires ie 3 hours, or the main light switch is turned on again 2) depending on which button was pressed, adjust the lighting scene inside the room for the way you want it... movies probably darker than sports etc. 3) program that resets everything when the main light switch is turned on with a slow brighten affect. 

this is a pretty simple and straitforward approach that gives you a pretty good start for what you are looking to do....control the lights in your movie room. Or you can achieve all of the above without a keypad by using an Alexa and simple voice commands as the initiator vs the keypad (my preferred route)

you can always grow from here with polyglot, node servers, multiple MS, door sensors etc... but that starts to get pretty involved if you haven't mastered the basics of isy programming such as I have explained above. If you choose to do something simple like this, feel free to reach out and I can explain in more detail if you need it.

good luck and WELCOME to the ISY.. you won't ever look back once you get the hang of it...

 

 

Edited January 7, 2020 by dbwarner5

[ISY Newbie]

5 hours ago, dbwarner5 said:

@ISY Newbie Bottom line, there is a TON of ways to automate your life. You will need to decide the balance of complexity of setup / programming vs how much you want to exactly meet every situation.

good luck and WELCOME to the ISY.. you won't ever look back once you get the hang of it...

 

Thanks all for feedback. This is exciting.

[Bumbershoot]

21 hours ago, ISY Newbie said:

- still 4.x with no node server. But I can easily install node servers on a 24/7 Windows computer.

Do some research on this assumption before proceeding.  NodeLink will indeed run on Windows, but it doesn't provide any entertainment related nodeservers.  Polyglot certainly does, however it's written to run on Unix variant operating systems (Linux, MacOS or FreeBSD).  I haven't seen any documentation here from anyone who has managed to wrangle it into running on a Windows machine.  However, a Linux virtual machine on your windows box will certainly work as a Polyglot host.

Edited January 8, 2020 by Bumbershoot

[apostolakisl]

9 hours ago, Bumbershoot said:

Do some research on this assumption before proceeding.  NodeLink will indeed run on Windows, but it doesn't provide any entertainment related nodeservers.  Polyglot certainly does, however it's written to run on Unix variant operating systems (Linux, MacOS or FreeBSD).  I haven't seen any documentation here from anyone who has managed to wrangle it into running on a Windows machine.  However, a Linux virtual machine on your windows box will certainly work as a Polyglot host.

Using an ipod as your remote I don't see any reason to use any nodeserver since none support any ipod AV app I've seen (if one exists, then excuse my ignorance).  REST interface is it assuming the ipod app allows for that.  If his receiver has a node, then that would be something to consider, but the ipod presumably is already linked to it and I don't see any use for ISY being able to monitor the receiver.  The remote is the conductor of this orchestra.  ISY would just be there to relay lighting commands to the switch.  In fact, you could skip the Insteon light switch and get one that responds to ir and avoid setting up REST commands if the ipod doesn't do them.

[lilyoyo1]

23 hours ago, ISY Newbie said:

Thanks all for feedback. This is exciting.

It sounds good and exciting but the work still has to be done. For a new person still finding their way; it can be daunting. There are many ways to accomplish what you are trying to do as everyone's posts can attest to. Before jumping in, I would sit down and think your whole theater routine out. While it may seem like a simple thing to add a motion sensor , there are other variables at play. Youll want to consider how much time do you need the lights on? How will the lights turn off, turn back on once done, What happens when you leave the room? Those are just the basic things. While automation is great, the worse thing is the need to do extra steps that you ordinarily would not have to because of it.

Once you've answered those questions, you can move to the next step which is figuring out how to accomplish your goals. It may require investing in new hardware, waiting to gain more experience programming, or revamping your approach. Taking the time to properly plan will save you greatly on all fronts.

 

[TrojanHorse]

Not trying to bombard with options, but you could consider the app “Simple control” fka “roomie”. I don’t like their subscription model, but for $2 / month for 10 devices I *think* you can still send http commands from that app. So you could perhaps use this to communicate to ISY via REST. The ISY was also a device you could add when I used it (so can control devices, not sure I ever got scenes to work right).

This app would be another interface to learn / program but if you already use an iPad for control it could make sense to use this for a bit while you contemplate your best ultimate solution. Who knows, if you like the iPad for control and like the app maybe you’ll just stick with their subscription?...



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