When Is Polisy going to be better than a rpi?

[apostolakisl]

@Michel Kohanim

It has been some time now since Polisy was put out there as a polyglot server and in the future so much more.  I'm just kind of wondering when is this future value going to be realized.  Currently I have something that does the same thing as my rpi did but for 10x the money.

[Michel Kohanim]

@apostolakisl,

When is Orange going to be tastier than Apple?

With kind regards,
Michel

[apostolakisl]

5 minutes ago, Michel Kohanim said:

@apostolakisl,

When is Orange going to be tastier than Apple?

With kind regards,
Michel

I think I have asked a fair question and don't appreciate the snarky response.  

[Michel Kohanim]

@apostolakisl,

To me, your question is snarky and I don't appreciate it.

With kind regards,
Michel

[apostolakisl]

2 minutes ago, Michel Kohanim said:

@apostolakisl,

To me, your question is snarky and I don't appreciate it.

With kind regards,
Michel

Wow!  Adding insult to injury.

[simplextech]

[Michel Kohanim]

@apostolakisl,

Using words such as "better" is an insult. Polisy is not the same as RPi. So, not sure how it can be better. It's the same question as PC vs. MAC.

With kind regards,
Michel

[asbril]

1 hour ago, apostolakisl said:

@Michel Kohanim

It has been some time now since Polisy was put out there as a polyglot server and in the future so much more.  I'm just kind of wondering when is this future value going to be realized.  Currently I have something that does the same thing as my rpi did but for 10x the money.

@apostolakisl I'd like to add that Polisy is way better than using a RPi for Polyglot.  "Amateur Techies" like myself don't understand how to setup and operate a RPi and Polisy makes it a lot easier. Furthermore, UDI has a great product which they constantly improve and they made it known that more is to come, including the integration of the ISY into Polisy. Michel and Chris are quality "obsessed"  and therefore it takes time for each improvement to be released.

Just think of Tesla cars. They are only partially self driving and are supposed to be come fully self driving after a number of upgrades.  Most people are happy to drive a Tesla as it is, knowing that further upgrades will come later. Others may prefer to buy a Tesla when it is fully self driving. Same applies to Polisy..... If you want the full version of Polisy, then just wait for that. In the meantime, honey works better.

[mwester]

Michel, to be fair, the Polisy was not positioned or marketed as merely a PC vs MAC preference -- it was positioned as the future for UDI customers.

I'll speak only for me.  I am happy to support UDI, and have no regrets over purchases of my ISY, my test/dev ISY, nor the Polisy.  However, I too have not realized any of that future benefit, and also wonder when I should expect to see it.

For me, the choice of FreeBSD as a platform for the Polisy has proven to be far less friendly (to put it nicely) to customization than I'd ever thought, which has left most of my plans for it stuck on hold.  Again, I'm not complaining - merely observing a fact here - I knew that it would run FreeBSD when I purchased.  That doesn't change the fact that the box is on a shelf, doing nothing of value for either UDI nor I.

I'm looking forward to the (unlikely) day when FreeBSD offers Docker support (and a bunch of other less-important features).  More importantly, and under UDI's control, I look forward to the future ISY-on-Polisy that we're all hoping for.

[apostolakisl]

33 minutes ago, Michel Kohanim said:

@apostolakisl,

Using words such as "better" is an insult. Polisy is not the same as RPi. So, not sure how it can be better. It's the same question as PC vs. MAC.

With kind regards,
Michel

How is that insulting?   You know, I just graciously answered a question for a user, where I told the user you could get a rpi or polisy to run polyglot.  And I said to myself, aside from polyglot being pre-installed, how does one justify the purchase of a polisy over a rpi?  Polyglot works the same on both.

As someone who has consistently shared valuable information with other users, created numerous "cliff's notes" instructions for things, which indeed you have posted to your wiki, I even wrote a massive set of programs that satisfied a huge short-coming for wild card date values that ISY had for years which I freely shared with you,  I would think you would have a little more respect.

And yet, you still haven't provided any information as to what and when we might expect to see value out of polisy that exceeds rpi.  You just double down on your hostility toward someone who has spent thousands of dollars with your company.

[Michel Kohanim]

@mwester,

FreeBSD has Jail (not docker) and you can easily create many using iocage. And, as always, you don't have to keep it on the shelf. You can request to return it and I'll fully refund you since, thankfully, we do not yet need charity.

@apostolakisl,

I appreciate your help and support BUT I still take BIG ISSUE with the word "better".  Polisy is NOT a general purpose device like RPi. It's specifically designed for UD's purposes. And, the next version of Polyglot (PG3), is very much Polisy centric: you cannot run it on RPi because it is tied to our store and therefore needs extra security that's not offered by RPi. We will use TPM to store credentials/certificates much like Apple, etc. Polisy's OS and updates/packages are managed by UD. RPi is managed by whatever Linux distribution. You can call our support for any Polisy related issue (including node servers). We do NOT support RPi. Polisy has UDX layer running which manages hardware, OS, updates, and security. If we were to migrate UDX to Linux, we would end up with a lawsuit unless we opened up the source. Polisy is the future of ISY, RPi is NOT.

So, again, my issue is with the word "better" because they are NOT made for the same thing. It's like comparing apples with oranges.

Michel

 

[mwester]

Thank you Michel.

No, FreeBSD jails are NOT a container solution.  As I've pointed out on this forum (and as others have pointed out on numerous FreeBSD forums), BSD jails are a necessary subset of a Docker-like solution, but they lack the necessary network management functionality of modern container mechanisms.  So, no, jails are NOT equivalent to Docker (and the FreeBSD community has not plans nor projects to address this shortcoming -- the general response is if you want/need containers, you don't want FreeBSD - seriously!  Go check the forums if you doubt this!)

Since I've modified the Polisy, I'd certainly not feel that it's right to return it.  Glad you don't need charity - or my business.  You're having a bad day, so am I... for my next project: How to install a standard Linux on the Polisy.

[apostolakisl]

7 minutes ago, Michel Kohanim said:

@mwester,

FreeBSD has Jail (not docker) and you can easily create many using iocage. And, as always, you don't have to keep it on the shelf. You can request to return it and I'll fully refund you since, thankfully, we do not yet need charity.

@apostolakisl,

I appreciate your help and support BUT I still take BIG ISSUE with the word "better".  Polisy is NOT a general purpose device like RPi. It's specifically designed for UD's purposes. And, the next version of Polyglot (PG3), is very much Polisy centric: you cannot run it on RPi because it is tied to our store and therefore needs extra security that's not offered by RPi. We will use TPM to store credentials/certificates much like Apple, etc. Polisy's OS and updates/packages are managed by UD. RPi is managed by whatever Linux distribution. You can call our support for any Polisy related issue (including node servers). We do NOT support RPi. Polisy has UDX layer running which manages hardware, OS, updates, and security. If we were to migrate UDX to Linux, we would end up with a lawsuit unless we opened up the source. Polisy is the future of ISY, RPi is NOT.

So, again, my issue is with the word "better" because they are NOT made for the same thing. It's like comparing apples with oranges.

Michel

 

Based on your answer, polisy is better because it has customer support, which kind of qualifies as better.  Everything else is "will happen".  And there is the question I asked. . "when".  This is not comparing apples to oranges, this is comparing polyglot functionality on one platform vs another.  That is the end user experience and the end user experience is what the user purchased.  When I ran polyglot on a rpi it did the exact same thing as it is currently doing on polisy.  That is a very apples to apples. . .polyglot to polyglot.  It is fair to ask "when" will I have an end user experience that is better (as opposed to the same)?  Your response to the word "better" seems very defensive and leads me to believe things are less than ideal.

[MrBill]

6 minutes ago, apostolakisl said:

And there is the question I asked. . "when".

I haven't been around here nearly as long as you, but even I know Michel and/or UDI never answer "when".  Or even "which" comes next on the roadmap. 

[bcdavis75]

Everybody chill.

[carealtor]

11 minutes ago, bcdavis75 said:

Everybody chill.

Please

[oberkc]

1 hour ago, apostolakisl said:

When I ran polyglot on a rpi it did the exact same thing as it is currently doing on polisy.  That is a very apples to apples. . .polyglot to polyglot.  It is fair to ask "when" will I have an end user experience that is better (as opposed to the same)?  Your response to the word "better" seems very defensive and leads me to believe things are less than ideal.

I fear you are missing the point of the polisy.  I think along the same lines as asbril...the polisy may or may not be better than a rpi.  But...that was never the point for me.  The polisy is a turnkey solution for those who can't, don't want to, won't, or don't want to learn how to load up an rpi device and make it work.  For those who like to do that sort of thing, go for it and save the money.  For those who don't, there is the polisy.  For those who don't, the polisy is better.

[lilyoyo1]

I think the confusion is based on the choice of words. By saying better vs asking about the future, the information desired gets lost.

I get both sides especially with the terminology used. The perceived value of anything is based on one's perspective. For someone unable to set up an Rpi and subsequent updates etc., Polisy is a Godsend. While they may want the future today, the fact that they have a direct line to support (should anything go wrong) increases that value even more. This applies to Michel and UDI.  He knows UDIs long term plans and what Polisy means to them and the end user (based on those plans).  Because of that, all that he mentioned makes Polisy extremely valuable to them and end-users. 

For the end users who can set up and manage polyglot on their own RPI this changes the dynamics. The see the difference in regards to what both does today. The perceived value diminishes for that reason. It comes down to spending 300 on something that they could do with a 50 dollar system at this time. 2 years from now, when Polisy has taken over that will probably change.

It's like my wife. She didn't understand Sonos when we first met. She didn't understand spending 150 bucks on a speaker (whatever it was back then) when a 40 dollar Bluetooth speaker did the job. Sure it sounded better but she just wanted music while she got dressed so the Bluetooth speaker had a perceived "better" value. Over time as she got a couple more and she could connect them, she saw the value of Sonos. Fast forward some years and with them now integrated into our house and lifestyle, it's value is even greater. 

I see Polisy and RPI in the same lens. They both do the same thing now (on the surface) but as time goes by, the value of Polisy will grow and change the dynamics. 

[asbril]

32 minutes ago, lilyoyo1 said:

For someone unable to set up an Rpi and subsequent updates etc., Polisy is a Godsend.

? Yes !!!!!!

[apostolakisl]

2 hours ago, oberkc said:

I fear you are missing the point of the polisy.  I think along the same lines as asbril...the polisy may or may not be better than a rpi.  But...that was never the point for me.  The polisy is a turnkey solution for those who can't, don't want to, won't, or don't want to learn how to load up an rpi device and make it work.  For those who like to do that sort of thing, go for it and save the money.  For those who don't, there is the polisy.  For those who don't, the polisy is better.

It may be that, but it was sold to me as the future ISY.  I already had (and still have) a rpi with polyglot.  I can log into either one and they are identical from the user perspective.  I just don't get why a simple question like when does it become better get attacked.  Like I said, that is very defensive behavior.

[apostolakisl]

1 hour ago, asbril said:

? Yes !!!!!!

Fine for you and appreciate that was your motivation.  But I would venture to guess that most of us who bought them already had polyglot running on a pi and were expecting to see development of polisy into something more.  Even pre-installed, polyglot is not "for dummies".  Most of the nodes are not "plug and play" and generally speaking polyglot is not suited for the casual user.  

But again, getting attacked for asking when it becomes better is out of line.

[asbril]

1 minute ago, apostolakisl said:

Fine for you and appreciate that was your motivation.  But I would venture to guess that most of us who bought them already had polyglot running on a pi and were expecting to see development of polisy into something more.  Even pre-installed, polyglot is not "for dummies".  Most of the nodes are not "plug and play" and generally speaking polyglot is not suited for the casual user.  

Thanks to several wonderful people in this forum I also had a RPi working, but Polisy is so much more convenient.

[kclenden]

@apostolakisl

You have certainly contributed enormously to the ISY community.  And for that, I am certainly grateful having used many of the solutions you've provided.  And as a Polisy purchaser it's understandable why you would want some information about its roadmap.  Having said that, posting your question in a public forum with what is essentially a "when am I going to get my money's worth" question certainly seems like a hostile way to open dialog.  I mean, have you ever seen UDI answer such a general "when" question in the forums?  I've certainly haven't been using the forum as long as you, but think I've been here at least seven years, and I've never seen UDI answer that kind of question.  And if you didn't really expect an answer from @Michel Kohanim then what did you hope to accomplish with a public question?  It just seems to me that your question would have been better asked in a direct message to Michel.

Just the perspective of a forum member that appreciates both your contributions and UDI products and support.

[larryllix]

COVID-19 lockdown stress!

It is affecting people in ways they didn't expect. We all try to ignore it, and rise above it, but it is taking it's toll on most of us in many different ways.

[asbril]

16 minutes ago, larryllix said:

COVID-19 lockdown stress!

It is affecting people in ways they didn't expect. We all try to ignore it, and rise above it, but it is taking it's toll on most of us in many different ways.

Covid, Flu season, Elections coming up, ABC, NBC, CBS & Fox reruns........What's happening to us ?