Using two ISY with one Polisy?

[cosyn]

I searched and couldn't find any threads on this so am starting one. I've been using Polisy for the past year, ISY for about 10 and Insteon-based home automation for 15. Here's my use case:

- I'd like to add another ISY because my Insteon signals can't get down to a detached unit on my property (I've tried everything and, short of running new electrical to get the signaling to work, it's easier to get a Wifi signal to the unit)

- I have a Davis weather station sending data to Polisy's WeatherPoly. There are also other node servers I'd like to make use of in this second ISY. So I'd like all this data usable by both ISYs.

- Not seeing an option in the Polisy settings for a second ISY, I thought maybe I could buy a second Polisy. It's far from ideal, but I'd do it if needed. But devices like the weather station only allow data to be sent to one URL. So having a second Polisy would mean having to buy two of everything that sends data to the Polisy, which gets even less ideal.

Can anyone think of a solution? 

 

Edited January 5, 2021 by cosyn
clarity

[madcodger]

I can't speak to Polisy directly, but when I needed an additional ISY for similar reasons (a building that required it, on the same property and LAN as the original ISY, primarily to use data from my Davis VP2) I was told a second polyglot device was needed. I added a second RPi running polyglot, which wasn't a big deal. As I understand it, that means a second Polisy would also be needed unless some changes to the current architecture are introduced, but others here can confirm this. Of course, a RPi won't be an option for v3 of polyglot, as UDI has previously announced.

I think this is a big drawback to the ISY, and it was the final straw in my decision to migrate away from the platform, sadly (along with continued reliance on the java-based admin console and lack of robust support for mobile devices, all of which I view as antiquated). I need multiple ISYs and have no trouble purchasing them. But if I then need to also purchase a Polisy for each ISY, and must put up with a lack of development in other areas as well, that creates a whole new situation that I have personally found unappealing. Others think I'm wrong. The market, as always, will decide. Good luck with your situation. 

[MrBill]

2 hours ago, madcodger said:

I can't speak to Polisy directly, but when I needed an additional ISY for similar reasons (a building that required it, on the same property and LAN as the original ISY, primarily to use data from my Davis VP2) I was told a second polyglot device was needed. I added a second RPi running polyglot, which wasn't a big deal. As I understand it, that means a second Polisy would also be needed unless some changes to the current architecture are introduced, but others here can confirm this. Of course, a RPi won't be an option for v3 of polyglot, as UDI has previously announced.

I think this is a big drawback to the ISY, and it was the final straw in my decision to migrate away from the platform, sadly (along with continued reliance on the java-based admin console and lack of robust support for mobile devices, all of which I view as antiquated). I need multiple ISYs and have no trouble purchasing them. But if I then need to also purchase a Polisy for each ISY, and must put up with a lack of development in other areas as well, that creates a whole new situation that I have personally found unappealing. Others think I'm wrong. The market, as always, will decide. Good luck with your situation. 

You're correct, a second instance of polyglot would be required.  Polyglot holds credentials to the ISY that its updating, there is no provision for multiple ISY's in a single instance.   Remember that someday in the future only one box will be needed Polisy, which will be running both Polyglot and ISY.

What I can't understand is if you have migrated away from the platform because you didn't like it, why do you hang around this community?   It's ok that the platform no longer meets your needs but why do find the need to take time to write paragraphs over and over about your dissatisfaction with the current state?

[MrBill]

10 hours ago, cosyn said:

I searched and couldn't find any threads on this so am starting one. I've been using Polisy for the past year, ISY for about 10 and Insteon-based home automation for 15. Here's my use case:

- I'd like to add another ISY because my Insteon signals can't get down to a detached unit on my property (I've tried everything and, short of running new electrical to get the signaling to work, it's easier to get a Wifi signal to the unit)

- I have a Davis weather station sending data to Polisy's WeatherPoly. There are also other node servers I'd like to make use of in this second ISY. So I'd like all this data usable by both ISYs.

- Not seeing an option in the Polisy settings for a second ISY, I thought maybe I could buy a second Polisy. It's far from ideal, but I'd do it if needed. But devices like the weather station only allow data to be sent to one URL. So having a second Polisy would mean having to buy two of everything that sends data to the Polisy, which gets even less ideal.

Can anyone think of a solution? 

 

it's not what you're looking for but there is this nodeserver: https://github.com/simplextech/udi-poly-isynet

I don't know how much work would be required to get it to mirror more node type, but let's tag @simplextech and see what he thinks, there's been at least one other thread where a remote ISY in an outbuilding would be a good solution.

[simplextech]

20 minutes ago, MrBill said:

there's been at least one other thread where a remote ISY in an outbuilding would be a good solution.

It would be possible to use a NodeServer to create a producer/consumer type relationship between ISY's.  However for this use case I do think it's better suited for Polyglot to support multiple ISY's.  With that said it's very unlikely to happen anytime soon as the current effort is towards moving the ISY functionality INTO the Polisy and it would then be a converged system and not separate.  At this point it would be a Polisy at each location but still acting independently.  What could and should be done is a focus on the converged Polisy having support for multiple Polisy with a overall "view" into the entire ecosystem.  This way one could have multiple Polisy units and share data between them which is sorta the point of MQTT being a backbone component of Polisy and Polyglot.

[MrBill]

11 minutes ago, simplextech said:

It would be possible to use a NodeServer to create a producer/consumer type relationship between ISY's.  However for this use case I do think it's better suited for Polyglot to support multiple ISY's.  With that said it's very unlikely to happen anytime soon as the current effort is towards moving the ISY functionality INTO the Polisy and it would then be a converged system and not separate.  At this point it would be a Polisy at each location but still acting independently.  What could and should be done is a focus on the converged Polisy having support for multiple Polisy with a overall "view" into the entire ecosystem.  This way one could have multiple Polisy units and share data between them which is sorta the point of MQTT being a backbone component of Polisy and Polyglot.

Right.  That was basically my thoughts but not spelled out to the same level of detail.  (half my thought is actually in the post replying to madcodger).... On the other hand tho I can definitely see the need to be able to somehow copy duplicate nodes between boxes (generic word on purpose), the perfect example of why:  Polisy/Polyglot/ISY A is in the house, Polisy/Polyglot/ISY B is in the barn....  weather data comes from a website who's API requires a key and calls per 24h are limited,  only one polyglot instance can be updated from the weather suppliers cloud but must somehow update another instance. 

So the $64,000 questions becomes should polyglot itself be able to cascade to more than one instance, or should there be a CopyNodes nodesever that handles multiple boxes..... ( I have no idea but like you say it's definitely something that needs to be included in the thought process)  Thinking about it there's really need to go both directions, location B may have nodes that location A needs to know about. 

[bpwwer]

You can run multiple instances of Polyglot on the same hardware.  It does have environment variables that allow you to change the ports used by an instance of the program.  I'm currently running both version 2 and an alpha of version 3 on my Polisy.  If you wanted to install a second instance of Polyglot running on a Polisy, you'd have to set up the directory structure and port configuration so they don't conflict with each other.   You can also run multiple copies of Polyglot on an RPi, though I've never tried that.

[simplextech]

2 minutes ago, bpwwer said:

You can run multiple instances of Polyglot on the same hardware.  It does have environment variables that allow you to change the ports used by an instance of the program.  I'm currently running both version 2 and an alpha of version 3 on my Polisy.  If you wanted to install a second instance of Polyglot running on a Polisy, you'd have to set up the directory structure and port configuration so they don't conflict with each other.   You can also run multiple copies of Polyglot on an RPi, though I've never tried that.

Yeah now try to document and then support this setup for a non-technical end-user..... ???? full time job anyone?

At this point support for multiple ISY units is moot considering the converged plan.  After the convergence something should be done about supporting multiple Polisy units in a depolyment to account for out-buildings and remote locations.  Very similar in how multiple ISY's can be managed through the Portal but should have a bird's eye view of the "whole system" and ability to manage the "whole system" rather than individual elements.  Yet that's a LOOOONNNGGG way off and likely not to ever happen.

[simplextech]

8 minutes ago, MrBill said:

So the $64,000 questions becomes

Do you want an RTI, Control4, Savant or Crestron system?

??

[MrBill]

11 minutes ago, bpwwer said:

You can run multiple instances of Polyglot on the same hardware.  It does have environment variables that allow you to change the ports used by an instance of the program.  I'm currently running both version 2 and an alpha of version 3 on my Polisy.  If you wanted to install a second instance of Polyglot running on a Polisy, you'd have to set up the directory structure and port configuration so they don't conflict with each other.   You can also run multiple copies of Polyglot on an RPi, though I've never tried that.

I actually wondered that as I was typing, but excluded the thought because it really doesn't address the problem that OP illustrates in their final bullet: the cost of data... whether its limited calls per24 to an API somewhere, or as it seems in OPs example hardware pushing data to a single location (maybe I'm misunderstanding their example).

[lilyoyo1]

1 hour ago, MrBill said:

 

What I can't understand is if you have migrated away from the platform because you didn't like it, why do you hang around this community?   It's ok that the platform no longer meets your needs but why do find the need to take time to write paragraphs over and over about your dissatisfaction with the current state?

I was thinking the same thing!!!

[bpwwer]

I just wanted to point out that it's not a requirement to have to Polisy's or RPi's to support two ISY's.

The current ISY ecosystem wasn't really designed with the idea that there'd be multiple ISY's trying to co-exist with overlapping data sources.   Some type of creative solution will likely be needed.  For the Davis, that may mean feeding the data to something else first, that can support sending the data to multiple consumers.  

[simplextech]

4 minutes ago, bpwwer said:

For the Davis, that may mean feeding the data to something else first, that can support sending the data to multiple consumers.  

Perfect use case for MQTT

 

[Michel Kohanim]

All,

Most of ISY framework - and specifically programs and node servers - is already ported and running on Polisy. Albeit, with a lot of bug.

With kind regards,
Michel

[larryllix]

20 minutes ago, Michel Kohanim said:

All,

Most of ISY framework - and specifically programs and node servers - is already ported and running on Polisy. Albeit, with a lot of bug.

With kind regards,
Michel

Is the jump to HTML being done at the same time?

[cosyn]

All,
Most of ISY framework - and specifically programs and node servers - is already ported and running on Polisy. Albeit, with a lot of bug.
With kind regards,
Michel

Michel, thanks for the update. Thanks also to others for weighing in. With the new system architecture, would incoming data from IOT devices point to Polisy’s node servers, which would then pass on data to ISY that are both internal to Polisy and external ISY boxes? This is in regard to my original use case but could help others too.

BTW, I’m just a public health doc with an automation hobby who programmed a Vic-20 in my early years and continue to build my own computers, so please excuse and feel free to correct any misunderstanding on my part.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Michel Kohanim]

@larryllix,

Partly but all the testing is done via Admin Console so that we can make sure all features are working.

@cosyn, yes and very impressive! Only if we could build vaccines like computers ...

With kind regards,
Michel

[larryllix]

4 hours ago, Michel Kohanim said:

@larryllix,

Partly but all the testing is done via Admin Console so that we can make sure all features are working.

@cosyn, yes and very impressive! Only if we could build vaccines like computers ...

With kind regards,
Michel

Makes sense to do one step at a time.

The first two vaccines never saw a virus and do not involve the virus for production. They are synthetically fabricated proteins designed from a SARS-COV-2 DNA blueprint supplied to us by China. But they are very delicate, need to be deeply frozen, and our bodies kill them off shortly after discovering them. This will allow them to be manufactured in hours. Trust is the delay....so far.

[cosyn]

1 hour ago, larryllix said:

Makes sense to do one step at a time.

The first two vaccines never saw a virus and do not involve the virus for production. They are synthetically fabricated proteins designed from a SARS-COV-2 DNA blueprint supplied to us by China. But they are very delicate, need to be deeply frozen, and our bodies kill them off shortly after discovering them. This will allow them to be manufactured in hours. Trust is the delay....so far.

 

5 hours ago, Michel Kohanim said:

@larryllix,

Partly but all the testing is done via Admin Console so that we can make sure all features are working.

@cosyn, yes and very impressive! Only if we could build vaccines like computers ...

With kind regards,
Michel

I'm super excited about the new features, coming, Michel! Sounds like a real solution to my issue of one data source to multiple ISY conundrum. It's a lot easier than trying to get the manufacturers of all the different data sources coming into Polisy to send data to multiple servers, for sure.

Thanks for clearing up COVID-19 vaccine misinformation, @larryllix! Our own Walter Reed Hospital has done great RNA sequence alignment work to show that the vaccines are robust for circulating strains in the US as well as the UK and South Africa strains. Just one clarification, it's mRNA in the current vaccines, which get translated into full-length spike protein. But yeah, the mRNA is broken down pretty quickly, and both mRNA and protein are presented to the immune system for a double whammy to the real virus if it does get into the body.

On the other hand, I've had to replace 30% of my 100+ Insteon devices over the years...