Serial PLM discontinued according to smarthome

[Michel Kohanim]

All,

I think we have spent too much time debating SmartHome, their practices, and their destiny. Perhaps it's time that we all moved on because, ultimately, they are the masters of their own destiny and only time will tell how things will turn out. 

From UD perspective, ISY is now running on Polisy and supports INSTEON through the DB9 on the back (we are working on supporting USB). You cannot restore ISY backup on Polisy. If you want to play with ISY on Polisy (still alpha-beta):

1. Make sure your polisy is on version 13 (uname -a)
2. sudo pkg update
3. sudo pkg upgrade
4. sudo pkg install isy
5. sudo reboot

Once rebooted, ISY is at your polisy's IP:ports 8443 (4096 bit cert) or 8080 (no cert). So, if your polisy at 1.2.3.4, then ISY is at https://1.2.3.4:8443 or http://1.2.3.4:8080. 

You can use ISY Launcher:
1. Click on the Add button
2. Enter https://1.2.3.4:8443/desc ... 

You also get ISY Portal. And, you can use UD Mobile (not fully tested). Once we are done with buttoning things up, we are going to add support for Z-Wave 700 series + Zigbee/Matter.

With kind regards,
Michel

[hart2hart]

All,
I think we have spent too much time debating SmartHome, their practices, and their destiny. Perhaps it's time that we all moved on because, ultimately, they are the masters of their own destiny and only time will tell how things will turn out. 
From UD perspective, ISY is now running on Polisy and supports INSTEON through the DB9 on the back (we are working on supporting USB). You cannot restore ISY backup on Polisy. If you want to play with ISY on Polisy (still alpha-beta):
1. Make sure your polisy is on version 13 (uname -a)
2. sudo pkg update
3. sudo pkg upgrade
4. sudo pkg install isy
5. sudo reboot
Once rebooted, ISY is at your polisy's IP:ports 8443 (4096 bit cert) or 8080 (no cert). So, if your polisy at 1.2.3.4, then ISY is at https://1.2.3.4:8443 or http://1.2.3.4:8080. 
You can use ISY Launcher:
1. Click on the Add button
2. Enter https://1.2.3.4:8443/desc ... 
You also get ISY Portal. And, you can use UD Mobile (not fully tested). Once we are done with buttoning things up, we are going to add support for Z-Wave 700 series + Zigbee/Matter.
With kind regards,
Michel

As always, thanks to you UD team for excellent product, service, and support. Still the best I’ve ever encountered.

[lilyoyo1]

1 hour ago, Michel Kohanim said:

we are going to add support for Z-Wave 700 series + Zigbee/Matter.

With kind regards,
Michel

This is what I'm looking forward to

[Michel Kohanim]

9 minutes ago, lilyoyo1 said:

This is what I'm looking forward to

Hindsight being 20/20, we should have started with those.

With kind regards,
Michel

[larryllix]

1 hour ago, Michel Kohanim said:

All,

I think we have spent too much time debating SmartHome, their practices, and their destiny. Perhaps it's time that we all moved on because, ultimately, they are the masters of their own destiny and only time will tell how things will turn out. 

From UD perspective, ISY is now running on Polisy and supports INSTEON through the DB9 on the back (we are working on supporting USB). You cannot restore ISY backup on Polisy. If you want to play with ISY on Polisy (still alpha-beta):

1. Make sure your polisy is on version 13 (uname -a)
2. sudo pkg update
3. sudo pkg upgrade
4. sudo pkg install isy
5. sudo reboot

Once rebooted, ISY is at your polisy's IP:ports 8443 (4096 bit cert) or 8080 (no cert). So, if your polisy at 1.2.3.4, then ISY is at https://1.2.3.4:8443 or http://1.2.3.4:8080. 

You can use ISY Launcher:
1. Click on the Add button
2. Enter https://1.2.3.4:8443/desc ... 

You also get ISY Portal. And, you can use UD Mobile (not fully tested). Once we are done with buttoning things up, we are going to add support for Z-Wave 700 series + Zigbee/Matter.

With kind regards,
Michel

Awesome! Have you set up any thread/forum to give feedback on quirks/bugs/suggestions found?
Do you want any yet?

[bcdavis75]

2 hours ago, Michel Kohanim said:

All,

I think we have spent too much time debating SmartHome, their practices, and their destiny. Perhaps it's time that we all moved on because, ultimately, they are the masters of their own destiny and only time will tell how things will turn out. 

From UD perspective, ISY is now running on Polisy and supports INSTEON through the DB9 on the back (we are working on supporting USB). You cannot restore ISY backup on Polisy. If you want to play with ISY on Polisy (still alpha-beta):

1. Make sure your polisy is on version 13 (uname -a)
2. sudo pkg update
3. sudo pkg upgrade
4. sudo pkg install isy
5. sudo reboot

Once rebooted, ISY is at your polisy's IP:ports 8443 (4096 bit cert) or 8080 (no cert). So, if your polisy at 1.2.3.4, then ISY is at https://1.2.3.4:8443 or http://1.2.3.4:8080. 

You can use ISY Launcher:
1. Click on the Add button
2. Enter https://1.2.3.4:8443/desc ... 

You also get ISY Portal. And, you can use UD Mobile (not fully tested). Once we are done with buttoning things up, we are going to add support for Z-Wave 700 series + Zigbee/Matter.

With kind regards,
Michel

Well, that's exciting.  Couple follow up questions;

1) Will the restore from ISY to Polisy ever be possible?  Or should we plan to rebuild from scratch on Polisy?  

2) The sudo commands you list--how do you run them?

3) Lastly, I'm still confused as to what actually replaces the Insteon Serial Modem on the policy.    

 

 

[MrBill]

@Michel Kohanim

That's awesome!!!

So far only added to my second Polisy.

Two topics with questions:

1) The java admin console is the tool to access? Obviously I got there via that method, but I'm asking the question because I thought this version was going to be browser based rather than java?  or perhaps that's a future step?

2) you mentioned that ISY-994 backups can't be restored on Polisy ISY,  is there or will there be an approach for moving or importing anything?   Devices of any type (Z-wave or Insteon) and/or programs?  Is there a Z-wave dongle for Polisy?  Is there a method to move an Insteon setup over? or will it require starting with an empty PLM, and building from scratch?

Nothing about this is critical or meant to put you in a defensive mode, I'm simply asking questions that many will have about two topics in the path forward so that we can approach this in an informed manner. 

Congratulations!!  This is an awesome milestone to have reached!  It's awesome to have a faster, more powerful device at our disposal!! 

[larryllix]

4 hours ago, bcdavis75 said:

Well, that's exciting.  Couple follow up questions;

1) Will the restore from ISY to Polisy ever be possible?  Or should we plan to rebuild from scratch on Polisy?  

2) The sudo commands you list--how do you run them?

3) Lastly, I'm still confused as to what actually replaces the Insteon Serial Modem on the policy.    

 

 

If you reread the original information from Michel's post it tells the DB9 DE-9 is supporting the PLM now and the USB port is being worked on for future PLM connections.

The sudo commands are run from the FreeBSD command line. You can access this by using an SSH compatible terminal program like PuTTY for Windows. You will need the IP address, and your username and password for the polisy.

There is no replacement for the serial modem on the polisy. The same PLM should work just fine except it will be full of links that will get destroyed if you "borrow it" for this usage temporarily. I believe ISY has enough commands to rebuilt the link tables in the PLM at both ends though. Sounds like a lot of work.

Edited July 1, 2021 by larryllix
Corrected connector name

[bcdavis75]

52 minutes ago, larryllix said:

If you reread the original information from Michel's post it tells the DB9 is supporting the PLM now and the USB port is being worked on for future PLM connections.

The sudo commands are run from the FreeBSD command line. You can access this by using an SSH compatible terminal program like PuTTY for Windows. You will need the IP address, and your username and password for the polisy.

There is no replacement for the serial modem on the polisy. The same PLM should work just fine except it will be full of links that will get destroyed if you "borrow it" for this usage temporarily. I believe ISY has enough commands to rebuilt the link tables in the PLM at both ends though. Sounds like a lot of work.

Sorry, I'm sure I'm being sense here; and I don't know what DB9 means.  But if a PLM is still required when running ISY on the Polisy and the only PLM I know of that works with ISY is discontinued, what has changed?  

[Techman]

10 hours ago, lilyoyo1 said:

The problem with the USB version is that it's the same as the serial version. Just a different connector. Once 2413u is gone it's gone

Here's the manual on the new USB PLM. Not sure if it will ever see the light of day. It seems that all we would need is a compatible cable. If you scroll down you'll see a 2234-223 which is the serial port version. These are both pending FCC approval. 2234-222.pdf

The specs are impressive.

 

 

2234-222.pdf

Edited July 1, 2021 by Techman

[MrBill]

If anyone else installed V1.1.0 besides me you'll want to

sudo pkg update

sudo pkg upgrade isy

sudo service udx restart

sudo service isy restart

before you try to add portal....  V1.2.0 fixes that...  ?

UDI was super fast when I reported the issue....

 

We really did new a place to discuss the alpha versions of ISY on Polisy besides this thread....

[larryllix]

3 hours ago, bcdavis75 said:

Sorry, I'm sure I'm being sense here; and I don't know what DB9 means.  But if a PLM is still required when running ISY on the Polisy and the only PLM I know of that works with ISY is discontinued, what has changed?  

DB-9 DE-9 is the small "D" shaped connector (hard D shaped ring) with 9 pins on the back right of the polisy box. The original RS-232 (serial port standard) connector was a DB-25 connector, if you remember what the full serial port connectors looked like (yeah, 25 pins). It was later replaced by the DB-9 connector, as smaller computers came into being. I don't remember what the "B" "E" represents.

Edited July 1, 2021 by larryllix
Corrected DB to DE-9 connector

[bcdavis75]

10 minutes ago, larryllix said:

DB-9 is the small "D" shaped connector (hard D shaped ring) with 9 pins on the back right of the polisy box. The original RS-232 (serial port standard) connector was a DB-25 connector, if you remember what the full serial port connectors looked like (yeah, 25 pins). It was later replaced by the DB-9 connector, as smaller computers came into being. I don't remember what the "B" represents.

I see.  Thanks.  So just clear the last bit of cloudyness... With ISY running a on a Polisy, what are we planning to connect to that will also plug into the wall and replace the Serial PLMs that have been discontinued?

[larryllix]

9 minutes ago, bcdavis75 said:

I see.  Thanks.  So just clear the last bit of cloudyness... With ISY running a on a Polisy, what are we planning to connect to that will also plug into the wall and replace the Serial PLMs that have been discontinued?

Yes, I believe that is the original intent, according to Michel's post above. In the end, who knows but UDI has to roll with what Insteon does. If Insteon discontinues the serial port PLM,  UDI has a USB PLM interface in the works. If that collapsed also, then an Insteon Hub using Ethernet, would be in order. If the Hub disappeared, then Insteon would be basically dead IMHO, or developing a whole new structure/basic interface. UDI may be able to obtain the licensing  to produce their own PLM design, previously designed in the past.

They all plug into the wall in order to not only get power, but to transmit their Insteon signals onto the powerline.

UDI is smart and has rolled with the punches, as needed, so far. I trust them but they don't typically publish their plans or thinking ahead of release. That is the modern way to protect your technology, since patents have become a joke.

Edited July 1, 2021 by larryllix

[hart2hart]

I don't remember what the "B" represents.

It is supposed to be called DE-9 where E is the smaller shell size. Since early PC had DB-25, the B was just carried over but is technically wrong. Trivia for the day. ?

[gzahar]

13 hours ago, hart2hart said:

Very true but the email I was reacting to said the 2413S was being discontinued. Maybe the will still sell U version as it has more sales from other HA platforms?

Also, thinking if something could be engineered, we could buy several of them now to bridge UD to whatever the future holds.

I also recall a post from someone and picture using a Hub as a PLM by doing done wiring he said would be obvious to those that understood the chip set.

Lastly I’m thinking a RPi as a middle man could be worked out to do translation.

Keep in mind, I’m wanting to help someone needing a plm now and being out of luck.

Orchestrated Home is showing that they have these for sale.  $140 if you want one that bad.

Can't verify if they have them in stock though, but you can apparently place an order for one.  Worth a call if you are interested.

https://www.orchestratedhome.com/shop/pc/PowerLinc-Modem-Serial-PLM-Dual-Band-29p141.htm

[hart2hart]

Orchestrated Home is showing that they have these for sale.  $140 if you want one that bad.
Can't verify if they have them in stock though, but you can apparently place an order for one.  Worth a call if you are interested.
https://www.orchestratedhome.com/shop/pc/PowerLinc-Modem-Serial-PLM-Dual-Band-29p141.htm

Thanks. They had/have them in stock at SmartHome. I bought one at their normal price.

To be clear I have 1 plm in the wall and more in the box when this started looking like an issue. I just wanted to see if I could engineer a solution others could use.

[Brian H]

11 hours ago, larryllix said:

Yes, I believe that is the original intent, according to Michel's post above. In the end, who knows but UDI has to roll with what Insteon does. If Insteon discontinues the serial port PLM,  UDI has a USB PLM interface in the works. If that collapsed also, then an Insteon Hub using Ethernet, would be in order. If the Hub disappeared, then Insteon would be basically dead IMHO, or developing a whole new structure/basic interface. UDI may be able to obtain the licensing  to produce their own PLM design, previously designed in the past.

They all plug into the wall in order to not only get power, but to transmit their Insteon signals onto the powerline.

UDI is smart and has rolled with the punches, as needed, so far. I trust them but they don't typically publish their plans or thinking ahead of release. That is the modern way to protect your technology, since patents have become a joke.

Long time members may remember (I do).  There was a UDI Serial port PLM being developed years ago. Was up to the early prototype stage hardware made. When Smartlabs/Smarthome did a 180 degree turn and would not provide the promised programmed chips to run it. Basically hanging UDI out to dry.

[garybixler]

I did the update and upgrade but it seems that the polisy stays at version 12.2. (FreeBSD polisy 12.2-RELEASE-p6 FreeBSD 12.2-RELEASE-p6 r369564 POLISY  amd64)

Suggestions on how to get to 13 welcome.

Thanks Gary

[MrBill]

1 hour ago, garybixler said:

I did the update and upgrade but it seems that the polisy stays at version 12.2. (FreeBSD polisy 12.2-RELEASE-p6 FreeBSD 12.2-RELEASE-p6 r369564 POLISY  amd64)

Suggestions on how to get to 13 welcome.

Thanks Gary

See this post:

 

[Michel Kohanim]

All,

Thank you very much for all the feedback. First, let me answer some questions:

1. Restoring ISY backup on Polisy. We are still debating whether to support restoring first or jump to Z-Wave right after INSTEON
2. Admin Console: it was the fastest way to support ISY on Polisy while developing UD Mobile and the HTML interface for both ISY/Polisy. And, you are all familiar with it, so, not much documentation 
3. We are NOT going to support INSTEON HUB or any other INSTEON related activities UNLESS we get a commitment from SmartHome. The only reason we are supporting INSTEON on Polisy is because of you guys. And, no other reasons whatsoever

What we are working now is adding USB support (automatically find the PLM or Z-Wave, Zigbee) and fix minor bugs here/there. Should be all ready by next week. We really want to move to Z-Wave as soon as possible. 

With kind regards,
Michel

[asbril]

On 7/1/2021 at 12:05 PM, Michel Kohanim said:

All,

I think we have spent too much time debating SmartHome, their practices, and their destiny. Perhaps it's time that we all moved on because, ultimately, they are the masters of their own destiny and only time will tell how things will turn out. 

From UD perspective, ISY is now running on Polisy and supports INSTEON through the DB9 on the back (we are working on supporting USB). You cannot restore ISY backup on Polisy. If you want to play with ISY on Polisy (still alpha-beta):

1. Make sure your polisy is on version 13 (uname -a)
2. sudo pkg update
3. sudo pkg upgrade
4. sudo pkg install isy
5. sudo reboot

Once rebooted, ISY is at your polisy's IP:ports 8443 (4096 bit cert) or 8080 (no cert). So, if your polisy at 1.2.3.4, then ISY is at https://1.2.3.4:8443 or http://1.2.3.4:8080. 

You can use ISY Launcher:
1. Click on the Add button
2. Enter https://1.2.3.4:8443/desc ... 

You also get ISY Portal. And, you can use UD Mobile (not fully tested). Once we are done with buttoning things up, we are going to add support for Z-Wave 700 series + Zigbee/Matter.

With kind regards,
Michel

If I do the ISY @ Polisy update, will I still be able to access ISY the old fashioned way and will I have to change my UD Mobile and Home Assistant settings ?

[bpwwer]

1 minute ago, asbril said:

If I do the ISY @ Polisy update, will I still be able to access ISY the old fashioned way and will I have to change my UD Mobile and Home Assistant settings ?

Installing the ISY software on the Polisy gives you another ISY box, independent of any others you own.  So unless you move the PLM and re-link all your Insteon devices and re-create all your programs/variables and re-install all your node servers to the new ISY (which I don't recommend you do at this time), you continue to use your existing ISY as you normally would. 

ISY on Polisy is available to experiment with.

On that note, I've installed the ISY software and the latest PG3 software on a Polisy and loaded up a PG3 node server.  So far that is all working.  It's pretty exciting to see all the components working together and running on one box.

[asbril]

3 minutes ago, bpwwer said:

Installing the ISY software on the Polisy gives you another ISY box, independent of any others you own.  So unless you move the PLM and re-link all your Insteon devices and re-create all your programs/variables and re-install all your node servers to the new ISY (which I don't recommend you do at this time), you continue to use your existing ISY as you normally would. 

ISY on Polisy is available to experiment with.

On that note, I've installed the ISY software and the latest PG3 software on a Polisy and loaded up a PG3 node server.  So far that is all working.  It's pretty exciting to see all the components working together and running on one box.

I don't have Insteon (only Zwave and some wifi plugs (thru nodeservers). If I add ISY to Polisy, will I have a full copy of my existing ISY or, as you seem to indicate, it would be a different and empty ISY ?

Edited July 2, 2021 by asbril

[bpwwer]

7 minutes ago, asbril said:

I don't have Insteon (only Zwave and some wifi plugs (thru nodeservers). If I add ISY to Polisy, will I have a full copy of my existing ISY or, as you seem to indicate, it would be a different and empty ISY ?

No, it will be a separate (different and empty) ISY.  Since the ISY software on Polisy doesn't support z-wave yet you won't be able to do much with it at this time.

You should be able to connect node servers to it, but the existing Polyglot can only connect to one ISY so you'd need a separate instance of Polyglot (I.E. running on a separate RPi) in addition to your Polisy to do that.  I believe you could run PGC based node servers on it if you have a portal account (but I haven't tried).  That might be a good thing for someone to test out.

As @Michel Kohanimstated when he announced this, he's making it available to get some more wide spread testing, it's not ready for production use.  You basically need a separate, non-production, environment to make use of it.