Serial PLM discontinued according to smarthome

[MrBill]

1 hour ago, lilyoyo1 said:

No point in renaming old threads. Judging by the multitude of repeat posts on the same topics, no one reads/searches for past posts anyway.

Now that UDI has transitioned to the next era of Polisy, a new subforum for it should be set up

No one searches or looks for past posts due to the level of disorganization in this forum.  After all who would go to a thread titled "Serial PLM discontinued according to smarthome" to find this post.

I even suggested the same day:

On 7/1/2021 at 4:07 PM, MrBill said:

We really did new a place to discuss the alpha versions of ISY on Polisy besides this thread....

But typical for the disorganization found here, we've continued to the drag the original intent of this thread off-topic.

Unfortunately properly managing an online forum takes a dedicated person and a fair amount of time.   Pouncing on posts that drag a thread off topic and moving them to their own thread in the correct sub-forum.  Conversely, pouncing on posts that have currently open topics and moving them into the thread they belong.  Another "best practice" in support forums is to automatically lock threads without a new post in 30 days.  This forum is all over the place, no one knows where to find anything.  It also suffers from "too many choices", that is people can't guess the correct place to post because there are way too many sub-forums for the size of the community.  Worse yet, some nodeservers have dedicated sub-forums and some don't, yet it would be a real mess if all 112 nodeseverves had their own sub-forum.

I happen to agree with @whywork (although they actually didn't say rename anything) that reclassifying the Polisy section would be good... "Geek Batch" is outdated... It the equivalent of including the word "new" in a name.. time itself expires the title.  However since that's really more about Hardware, I think Geek Batch should get renamed Polisy Hardware and OS, then immediately beneath that add the subforum ISY on Polisy.   The problem with a new sub-forum named "Polisy Nodeserver" is that there is already an entire section named "Polisy Nodeserver".

 

[carealtor]

38 minutes ago, MrBill said:

yet it would be a real mess if all 112 nodeseverves had their own sub-forum.

 

No doubt true, but the alternative is even worse, as we are experiencing. 

[MrBill]

5 minutes ago, carealtor said:

No doubt true, but the alternative is even worse, as we are experiencing. 

112 today.... 224 in X amount of time... someday 500...   the method is not scalable.

[apostolakisl]

1 hour ago, MrBill said:

112 today.... 224 in X amount of time... someday 500...   the method is not scalable.

Not sure I agree.  So what if there are 500 sub topics?  That is like the fact that there are >1 billion websites out there.  You only visit the ones you want and the rest being there is no skin off your back.  The alternative would be a single stream of discussion that bounces around from one thing to another.  I suppose you could tag posts, but that relies on the author going to the trouble to do that.  I have seen forums that do it that way and before you can hit the "submit" button you have to put at least one tag.

I do agree that there needs to be a mechanism to prevent what is happening to this thread.  These last posts have zero to do with the topic.  Until AI comes along that lives up to the "I", you need an "HI" to actually read everything and keep it in order.

[MrBill]

44 minutes ago, apostolakisl said:

So what if there are 500 sub topics?

I've yet to ever see a forum with that many sub-topics displayed on the front page.  The casual user would be lost.  The front page would also portray a stagnate community to the casual user.

One (10 year long chapter) of my life was professional community (forum) administration at a SV startup for enterprise level forums.  At one point clients included all 4 major cell phone providers, several anti-virus software manufacturers, 2 major hard drive manufactures, several computer makers (choosing words to dance around an expired NDA that I usually honor anyway).  A best practice that we preached was to eliminate sub-forums that didn't receive 3-5 new posts a day on the average.   I don't know all the abilities of the forum software package but it appears to be fairly complex with untapped potential.  I'd bet that indeed tags could be enforced in a node server support section, and select members could be deputized to assist keeping the posts tagged correctly.

[apostolakisl]

2 hours ago, MrBill said:

I've yet to ever see a forum with that many sub-topics displayed on the front page.  The casual user would be lost.  The front page would also portray a stagnate community to the casual user.

One (10 year long chapter) of my life was professional community (forum) administration at a SV startup for enterprise level forums.  At one point clients included all 4 major cell phone providers, several anti-virus software manufacturers, 2 major hard drive manufactures, several computer makers (choosing words to dance around an expired NDA that I usually honor anyway).  A best practice that we preached was to eliminate sub-forums that didn't receive 3-5 new posts a day on the average.   I don't know all the abilities of the forum software package but it appears to be fairly complex with untapped potential.  I'd bet that indeed tags could be enforced in a node server support section, and select members could be deputized to assist keeping the posts tagged correctly.

I agree you wouldn't want them all listed out on the home page.  As it is, the home page is kind of long.  A folder like structure where you drill down seems logical.  Only "nodeservers" title would be listed, then you click on that to see all the individual nodeservers.  Not sure why a forum needs to have every title listed on the home page.

[MrBill]

17 minutes ago, apostolakisl said:

I agree you wouldn't want them all listed out on the home page.  As it is, the home page is kind of long.  A folder like structure where you drill down seems logical.  Only "nodeservers" title would be listed, then you click on that to see all the individual nodeservers.  Not sure why a forum needs to have every title listed on the home page.

This forum allows sections of the Front Page to be collapsed... the problem is only the everyday users/power users would understand that, the casual user or consumer of information would never figure out where to look.  If I was the admin, the only set of boards on the front page that would be collapsed by default would be the archived/read only section at the bottom.

[lilyoyo1]

6 hours ago, MrBill said:

No one searches or looks for past posts due to the level of disorganization in this forum.  After all who would go to a thread titled "Serial PLM discontinued according to smarthome" to find this post.

 

 

 

The point i was making is that most people don't bother to search or read anyways so it doesn't matter. They simply create a new post to get their answer. 

Many posts goes off the subject matter but usually the first few posts have the needed info. It's not uncommon for a poster to claim they searched for hours looking but couldn't find anything, yet- 3 posts below theirs is the same exact issue previously been asked and answered

[apostolakisl]

3 hours ago, lilyoyo1 said:

The point i was making is that most people don't bother to search or read anyways so it doesn't matter. They simply create a new post to get their answer. 

Many posts goes off the subject matter but usually the first few posts have the needed info. It's not uncommon for a poster to claim they searched for hours looking but couldn't find anything, yet- 3 posts below theirs is the same exact issue previously been asked and answered

I have found that searching the forum is very difficult.  I have on several occasions tried to find my own posts where I knew I answered a question and struggled to find it using the forum's own search function.  I often have better luck doing a google search to find something on this forum as opposed to using the forum's own search function.

[lilyoyo1]

1 minute ago, apostolakisl said:

I have found that searching the forum is very difficult.  I have on several occasions tried to find my own posts where I knew I answered a question and struggled to find it using the forum's own search function.  I often have better luck doing a google search to find something on this forum as opposed to using the forum's own search function.

That's how I usually go about thingsc because I don't like the time limit between searches

[whywork]

Thread Drift Redux.   Add forum search capabilities to topics discussed in this thread.

I think ISY makes good products with great support.

I hope they can reduce my forum frustration.  Maybe a new “social media” hire. Right after they buy/take over Smarthome.

 

 

[lilyoyo1]

11 hours ago, whywork said:

Thread Drift Redux.   Add forum search capabilities to topics discussed in this thread.

I think ISY makes good products with great support.

I hope they can reduce my forum frustration.  Maybe a new “social media” hire. Right after they buy/take over Smarthome.

 

 

With the personalities here, they'd spend more time on forum stuff than things that really matter. 

[MrBill]

12 hours ago, apostolakisl said:

I have found that searching the forum is very difficult.  I have on several occasions tried to find my own posts where I knew I answered a question and struggled to find it using the forum's own search function.  I often have better luck doing a google search to find something on this forum as opposed to using the forum's own search function.

I agree google is better at searching this forum.

[larryllix]

12 hours ago, apostolakisl said:

I have found that searching the forum is very difficult.  I have on several occasions tried to find my own posts where I knew I answered a question and struggled to find it using the forum's own search function.  I often have better luck doing a google search to find something on this forum as opposed to using the forum's own search function.

IMHO the search engine fell down somewhat when the topic cards came into play. Most don't use them and I forget they are even there. I tried to use them at first but now can't be bothered.

I have many posts I can remember doing but when I want to reference them, most I cannot find.

[Mustang65]

2 hours ago, larryllix said:

 

I have many posts I can remember doing but when I want to reference them, most I cannot find.

Sounds like my REAL memory issues

[Michel Kohanim]

Hi Guys,

Thanks so very much for the lively discussion. I setup a new forum just for ISY on Polisy:

With kind regarsd,
Michel

[mbking]

Not that this will answer the question as to whether Smathome will continue to sell a PLM, but I just got a new serial PLM under warranty, even though the website lists it as Sold Out.  It did take several days for them to OK the replacement, but once they did, the new one shipped out immediately.  I suppose Smarthome has a supply in reserve.  The version is 2.6.

I'm going to hold onto the old one and replace all the caps.  It has started losing its link table and for me, that's been the first sign of impending failure.

[khowell]

I solved the problem of the lack of serial PLM's by purchasing two USB PLM's 2413U from Smarthome (on sale) (one of the PLM's was purchased as a spare).

In watching a video on how to repair the serial PLM, I noticed the main board with all the power interfacing is the same on both the serial and USB devices.  All the communications with the ISY are through daughter boards.

I removed the covers of the USB (V2.5) and serial (V2.3) PLM and removed and swapped the daughter boards.  Reassembled the PLM's and used the "New" serial PLM with my ISY.  I had to go through the process of installing a new PLM: File -> Restore Modem (PLM).

The "New" serial" PLM works great and without all the angst of creating other solutions.

 

Photo of the inside of the USB PLM.  Sorry my photo of the serial version was blurry.

[Techman]

The daughter board sits on top of the main board

Here's a video someone posted on repairing the PLM

https://www.rototron.info/insteon-plm-repair-tutorial/

[larryllix]

32 minutes ago, Techman said:

The daughter board sits on top of the main board

Here's a video someone posted on repairing the PLM

https://www.rototron.info/insteon-plm-repair-tutorial/

Geeeez. That is an awesome video.

[auger66]

6 hours ago, khowell said:

I solved the problem of the lack of serial PLM's by purchasing two USB PLM's 2413U from Smarthome (on sale) (one of the PLM's was purchased as a spare).

In watching a video on how to repair the serial PLM, I noticed the main board with all the power interfacing is the same on both the serial and USB devices.  All the communications with the ISY are through daughter boards.

I removed the covers of the USB and serial PLM and removed and swapped the daughter boards.  Reassembled the PLM's and used the "New" serial PLM with my ISY.  I had to go through the process of installing a new PLM: File -> Restore Modem (PLM).

The "New" serial" PLM works great and without all the angst of creating other solutions.

Thank you for this. I have six different ISY/Insteon installations that have been running for awhile now. I've never had a PLM failure, but I just ordered a defensive USB PLM. Cheap insurance. Kind of like if you take an umbrella with you, it will never rain.

[Brian H]

Very nice video. Thank you for posting the link.

Some versions of the PLM have a different value C7 and C13. Smarthome tried larger capacitors to try and correct the capacitor failures.  I have seen a few different capacitor values. 100uF/35V. Then they changed C7 and C13  to Fujucon TY series capacitors. That are rated to be in a switching power supply. 100uF/50V that is physically to large to fit on the PCB. So it is laying against the PCB with bent leads into the capacitors mounting holes.

V2.3 had a new RS232 Interface Chip with a better ESD rating. V2.4 started a new Serial Port Daughter board. With the better ESD Chip and some signal protection on the serial signals to the outside world.

Thank you for the testing of the serial port daughter board in a 2413U. I do not have any 2413U models to try and test with.

[gdb]

Glad to see some progress on alternatives here! (Edited to complete sentence)

I recently had a nearby lightning event, and unfortunately it took out my 2413s PLM. I fortunately had a spare, but I noticed the dead one rattled when I unplugged it. I opened it up and found the upper part of an IC was loose in the device. Upon searching for the part to see what it did, I found the data sheet:

https://www.mouser.com/datasheet/2/328/lnk353_354-1512725.pdf

it is an AC/DC converter. Digging a little deeper, it is obsolete, with no pin compatible replacement.

https://www.mouser.com/PCN/Power_Integrations_PCN_19341_Obsolescence_of_Link_HF_Products.pdf

Speculation on my part: The link above indicates that the manufacturer was taking final orders up to August 30, 2020, with final deliveries on August 30, 2021. This may be the reason for the new interface devices in the FCC database.

Not speaking for anyone but my own amateur self.

About to go poke around in my Polisy. Thanks

[Brian H]

That is the switching supply chip. It is powered from the power line. So it must have taken a big hit. You may also find one or more of the diodes in the high voltage supply to it shorted or blown open. Along with the MOV across the AC input that stops spike on the AC power input but it has its limits on how big a hit it can absorb. The 6.8uF/250V cap may also have been damaged.

[Brian H]

I looked at some of the FCC Database internal photos of some Insteon modules.

The LNK354GN is also in a 2472D, 2474D, 2477D, 2475DA2. Since it is not Dual Band and not in the FCC Database. I have also seen the chip in the 2450 I/OLinc. There maybe others as I didn't look at every file.