Insteon Inventory

[lilyoyo1]

20 minutes ago, simplextech said:

It's expected that Ra 2 will go away as it's being replaced by Ra 3.  

EDIT:  Benefit... Radio Ra 2 main repeaters should turn up cheap on the market soon from people upgrading  LOL!!!!

Maybe they'll keep RA2 Select or perhaps converge with Caseta with the RA3 Select?  It's just been very odd to have two Lutron systems geared towards consumers and now that the occupancy sensor is supported in Caseta the only thing special between RA2 Select and Caseta is that RA2 Select devices are compatible with full Radio Ra 2....

I dunno... can speculate and make all kinds of wild guesses...

 

I agree with you. All scenarios we come up with makes sense to get rid of as well as keep. Select would make it easier to get people to upgrade to more expensive systems which would make it better to keep around than Caseta. Caseta is good for the entry level option but with no path forward to grow means people wouldnt upgrade.

 

[MWareman]

For me, bottom line is if I have to go to a specialist dealer to get support or devices - I'm not going to buy into the tech without a really compelling reason. 

I just had my basement finished out - and need 12 new switches. These would have been Insteon - but since I cannot get them I'm getting this Leviton device instead: https://www.leviton.com/en/products/dz6hd-1bz. This is easy for me because I already have a decent zwave mesh. 

To me - there does not appear to be a significant functionality difference between zwave and what RA3 offers to make the added expense and constraints worth it.

I would love to know though - what are the compelling reasons to look at RA3 over zwave for all of us ISY/Polisy enthusiasts?

[upstatemike]

The best way to decide the value of RA3 would be to take the free online course. It is a small investment in time to get a clear picture of RA3 so you can compare it against other protocols based on what is important to you. Plus you get to print a nifty certificate at the end for some reason. 

 

[simplextech]

1 hour ago, MWareman said:

For me, bottom line is if I have to go to a specialist dealer to get support or devices - I'm not going to buy into the tech without a really compelling reason. 

You don't.

You can buy from me, from @lilyoyo1 or several online places that I know of after you've taken the training.  

There are many benefits to any variant of Lutron over Z-Wave.  Over the years I've tested almost all of the options for lighting.  Z-Wave, Zigbee, Insteon, Lutron.  When I say I've "tested" I mean I replaced all of the switches/dimmers in my home with the current tech to be tested and I left it that way from 3-6 months.  This provided enough time for any issues to appear and for family usage and complaints to surface.

Insteon and Lutron were the solid winners.  I had very few issues with Insteon but there were some and reliability wasn't perfect but far better than Z-Wave could ever be.  I'm not talking hardware reliability I'm talking functional reliability.  I did have some hardware failures with Insteon but not many.  I've never had a hardware failure of any Lutron device yet.  I'm also not worried about it because when I do I know Lutron will replace the device without any problems or hoops to jump through. 

Ultimately Lutron Radio Ra 2 and Lutron Caseta is what I use in my home and if budget allows what I recommend to clients.  If budget is a problem then I work backwards through the Lutron product line.

FYI - I run Caseta only because of the plugin modules that are cheap and work great for holiday lighting to be used in scenes that always work and are in perfect sync just like Insteon.  I can't do this with Z-Wave and it not have popcorn effects and me constantly explaining to my wife why some lights turn on/off before the others do.  I'm running the Caseta plugins versus the Ra 2 plugins only because of cost factor.

All of my primary switched lighting is Ra2 and I use the VCRX for garage door control I have my Ra 2 tied directly to my Elk M1 panel and lots of rules running directly from the panel.  My Ra 2 and Caseta are also integrated with my RTI system for full control and status and any rules outside of the Elk M1 capability.

At the moment I'm in no hurry to upgrade to Ra 3 as there's no benefit to me (yet).  For those looking to move to a Lutron system I would recommend looking at a Ra 2 system for now to ensure integration capabilities.  The access/ability to integrate (officially) with Ra 3 with DIY systems is still unknown.  If you go with Ra 2 switches/dimmers today those are compatible with Ra 3 if you decide to upgrade in the future.

[lilyoyo1]

1 hour ago, MWareman said:

For me, bottom line is if I have to go to a specialist dealer to get support or devices - I'm not going to buy into the tech without a really compelling reason. 

I just had my basement finished out - and need 12 new switches. These would have been Insteon - but since I cannot get them I'm getting this Leviton device instead: https://www.leviton.com/en/products/dz6hd-1bz. This is easy for me because I already have a decent zwave mesh. 

To me - there does not appear to be a significant functionality difference between zwave and what RA3 offers to make the added expense and constraints worth it.

I would love to know though - what are the compelling reasons to look at RA3 over zwave for all of us ISY/Polisy enthusiasts?

In the grand scheme of things in regards to automation, there are no compelling reasons to choose Ra3 over Zwave. I think it comes down to what a person is looking to get from their devices.

Looks matter!!! In fact it's probably just as important as performance (maybe slightly more). I then look at ease of use, servicing, and finally cost. If Cost wasn't a factor, Id go with Crestron, Savant, or Homeworks (with ketra).

Im basing my reasons with Ra3 on the sunnata dimmer which is the same device without the smarts. My reasons overlap in both my professional life and personal life. For me, automation starts from the moment you see it- before you ever experience anything. Its paramount to have something that moves you the moment you see it and gives a person that WOW feeling. Ra3 has that. Its like buying a luxury car for the first time after having a regular car all of your life. From the moment you look at it, you want to drive it. The moment you touch the door handles to open the door and feel the difference. Even closing the door just feels better (especially if you have soft close). Once inside, the difference in the seats and leather all the way to the buttons and screens plays into the experience and how it makes you feel. The experience changes your perception of things. That's the feeling I want my switches and setup to convey. Ra3 switches with the light bar simply stands out and makes people notice in ways no Zwave switch can. When unused, the soft glow that it has will make people stop and admire it.

Then you touch the device....Turning the paddle on and off is completely silent. No click, no hard clunk like standard paddles....Just silence. Then the feel of the device when you operate it is different. Luxurious feeling. Its not that cold, hard, cheap plastic feel like most switches. Very solid feeling. Then the light bar which sets it apart from others. No more holding a switch just to dim it. You just touch or slide it to the level you want. The soft glow that gets brighter as the light turns on/off and then dims down softly to a faint glow. 

Performance wise, Lutron's reputation is beyond reproach. No need to rehash how it simply works all the time-every time (when properly installed). The speed of communication and responsiveness is unmatched except by hardwired systems. What sets it apart from zwave is dimming ability. Using the same bulbs, I was able to get more usable light at a lower level with the sunnata dimmer than I was with a zooz Zen72 dimmer I purchased to compare. This holds true against an insteon dimmer from the old and new line. Turn on performance was much better as well with the sunnata for low level lighting. One thing I noticed with the zooz was that the bulb took a few seconds before it would actually light up when at the lowest setting. This behavior could potentially be different when used with a different bulb however. Ditto for the sunnata if I used a different bulb. One thing Ra3 brings that the standard Sunnata does not have is the ability to be used with ELV and MLV LEDs which will allow it to work with a greater range of products.

Professionally, I like that I do not have to replace every light switch with a Ra3 switch to keep everything looking uniform. This can save customers money since they aren't forced to make a decision on whether to buy more of something they dont want to keep uniformity or to have different looking switches throughout the house. By offering the sunnata switch as well, they have a consistent look, feel, and operation throughout the home.

I do have easy access to devices at discounted prices so that does help alot. Even avg. people has access- they just pay full price for it.

Edited December 24, 2021 by lilyoyo1

[sjenkins]

Thank you both @simplextech and @lilyoyo1 for your further respected comments.  Just to verify do you both use the node server to connect to the ISY / POLY ? Second do you end up with a z-wave mech as well to handle particular unique devices like leak sensors or other type devices?  Can I 'dip my toe' into the RA2 world with a few switches and base unit?  I have signed up for the course but due to the season have not got there yet.  Appreciate your (or others) thoughts.

[lilyoyo1]

1 minute ago, sjenkins said:

Thank you both @simplextech and @lilyoyo1 for your further respected comments.  Just to verify do you both use the node server to connect to the ISY / POLY ? Second do you end up with a z-wave mech as well to handle particular unique devices like leak sensors or other type devices?  Can I 'dip my toe' into the RA2 world with a few switches and base unit?  I have signed up for the course but due to the season have not got there yet.  Appreciate your (or others) thoughts.

I don't use Ra2 but yes you would use a nodeserver. 

Regardless of what you use, you must invest in a strong mesh. Lutron is not zwave (and vice versa) so they do not piggyback off one another. What you use for sensors and so forth would be a personal choice. Since you said zwave sensors, you would need to invest in hardwired zwave devices. I use in wall receptacles for this purpose as they are below eye level so go unnoticed by people. You can use plug in modules should you choose however.

As long as you have enough lutron devices within range of your base station, you would be alright with a few for testing purposes. You don't need to do the whole home. Personally, I'd wait and get the ra3 processor. It'll work with most ra2 devices (most likely all that you'd choose initially) which will save you money in the long run. 

[simplextech]

1 hour ago, sjenkins said:

Thank you both @simplextech and @lilyoyo1 for your further respected comments.  Just to verify do you both use the node server to connect to the ISY / POLY ? Second do you end up with a z-wave mech as well to handle particular unique devices like leak sensors or other type devices?  Can I 'dip my toe' into the RA2 world with a few switches and base unit?  I have signed up for the course but due to the season have not got there yet.  Appreciate your (or others) thoughts.

For disclosure I don't use the NodeServer beyond testing/validation of functionality.  I did develop the current NodeServer.  I have not ran ISY as my primary control system for a couple of years now.

I do have a strong Z-Wave mesh that is comprised of wall receptacles.  This is still in place because I have a couple thermostats left that are Z-Wave (StelPro) and I do use z-wave plugins for various things.  I mostly use the ZEN15 modules because they can handle the load from motors and are capable of full 15A.

I no longer use Z-Wave for door sensors or leak sensors.  Those all run from my Elk M1 panel.

Yes you can dip your toes into the Lutron world.  You'll first need a main repeater and then whatever switches or devices you choose.  Lutron ClearConnect is not a mesh network and the devices would need to be within 30ft of the main repeater.  You can extend this by adding Aux Repeaters to the system.  Placing Aux repeaters as necessary will allow for a very large footprint of devices.  

57 minutes ago, lilyoyo1 said:

Personally, I'd wait and get the ra3 processor. It'll work with most ra2 devices

I would only wait for Ra 3 if you really don't like the Maestro switches like @lilyoyo1.  I'll repeat again at this point in time there's no official method of integrating Ra 3 into any DIY system.

[upstatemike]

Smarthome is having a sale and the USB interface is in stock. Does Polisy support this interfce option?

[Michel Kohanim]

@upstatemike,

Yes, it supports all PLMs.

With kind regards,
Michel

[lilyoyo1]

1 hour ago, upstatemike said:

Smarthome is having a sale and the USB interface is in stock. Does Polisy support this interfce option?

Im not a fan of the USB stick's performance. It was much slower than the plm and many times I would need to press buttons multiple times to get Polisy to see the changes. Swap over to the Plm with the same exact devices and all of those issues have disappeared. Swap to another USB stick that I had and the same stuff started happening again. 

This was prior to the latest updates so things couldve potentially changed.

[upstatemike]

Going to grab one anyway. At $25 it is cheap "last resort" insurance if my other PLMs go bad. Even if I just use it as a temporary solution while getting the others repaired it will be worth it.

Edited March 18, 2022 by upstatemike

[larryllix]

Smarthome is having a sale and the USB interface is in stock. Does Polisy support this interfce option?

yes. I used one

Sent from my SM-G781W using Tapatalk

[apostolakisl]

On 3/17/2022 at 11:25 AM, upstatemike said:

Smarthome is having a sale and the USB interface is in stock. Does Polisy support this interfce option?

Seem to be sold out now.  I have one but haven't tried using it.

[upstatemike]

So after this sale they will pretty much be out of everything. Do you think they will close up shop until more invntory comes in next year?

[apostolakisl]

1 minute ago, upstatemike said:

So after this sale they will pretty much be out of everything. Do you think they will close up shop until more invntory comes in next year?

Who the heck knows!  Kind of seems like they are discontinuing Insteon the way they are trying to empty the warehouse.  Either that, or the new Insteon will be different than the old and they want out with the old before they bring in the new.  Or, they just want to have some cash flow while they wait. 

[larryllix]

So after this sale they will pretty much be out of everything. Do you think they will close up shop until more invntory comes in next year?

You won't like him when he's angry!



Sent from my SM-G781W using Tapatalk

[larryllix]

Who the heck knows!  Kind of seems like they are discontinuing Insteon the way they are trying to empty the warehouse.  Either that, or the new Insteon will be different than the old and they want out with the old before they bring in the new.  Or, they just want to have some cash flow while they wait. 

How would anybody else know when Smarthome doesn't know anything themselves?

Sent from my SM-G781W using Tapatalk

[upstatemike]

15 minutes ago, apostolakisl said:

Who the heck knows!  Kind of seems like they are discontinuing Insteon the way they are trying to empty the warehouse.  Either that, or the new Insteon will be different than the old and they want out with the old before they bring in the new.  Or, they just want to have some cash flow while they wait. 

All good points and I will add that I had a question about my order and got a prompt response from Debbie in customer service so that was encouraging. The phone support is gone though so email is the only contact option.

[xlurkr]

FWIW, I bought a NIB Hub in a private sale just to play around with it.  It wouldn't let me register it, so I contacted customer service via email and they were super responsive - and they had two people on my case!  Ultimately, they didn't fix my problem though.  I did.

-Tom

[Venicenerd]

I have no idea how I will ever replace my Insteon setup. I have one 6/8 button keypad in each room which connected to one physical light source. All other light sources are connected to the Insteon DIN switches/dimmers in the attic. 
 

I love being able to control all of my lights in each from from a 1-gang switch. I haven’t seen any other solution that would make this possible.

[Roland Alden]

I just began my long slow cutover to Lutron Caseta. It's like a bad joke. Basically a 90% loss in functionality. I can imagine the focus group that designed the software. A cross between Bleak House and Franz Kafka. Somebody should take this entire industry and throw it off a cliff.

[lilyoyo1]

2 hours ago, Roland Alden said:

I just began my long slow cutover to Lutron Caseta. It's like a bad joke. Basically a 90% loss in functionality. I can imagine the focus group that designed the software. A cross between Bleak House and Franz Kafka. Somebody should take this entire industry and throw it off a cliff.

It works great for the market it was designed for. The market is geared towards those who want simplicity and app control. Using it outside of that does make it seem limiting but only because it's not designed for that purpose

 

Edited March 21, 2022 by lilyoyo1

[brians]

On 12/24/2021 at 5:38 AM, MWareman said:

For me, bottom line is if I have to go to a specialist dealer to get support or devices - I'm not going to buy into the tech without a really compelling reason. 

I just had my basement finished out - and need 12 new switches. These would have been Insteon - but since I cannot get them I'm getting this Leviton device instead: https://www.leviton.com/en/products/dz6hd-1bz. This is easy for me because I already have a decent zwave mesh. 

To me - there does not appear to be a significant functionality difference between zwave and what RA3 offers to make the added expense and constraints worth it.

I would love to know though - what are the compelling reasons to look at RA3 over zwave for all of us ISY/Polisy enthusiasts?

Do those Leviton dimmers support instant status? I have three Leviton switches DZ15S-1RZ in same product family that require a Hail program.

 

 

[Papa C]

OMG!  SO, SO many questions!  Stepped back a couple of months and everything shifted!  Started out looking for a ISY ZW Pro to put in mom's to do some things with a Schlage lock.  Last I looked (I swear just a couple of months) Policy was a new thing coming that would eventually replace the ISY.  Ok, cool, I'll watch.  Then a notice recently that sounded as if due to some security issues it's on hold?  So, don't see a ISY ZW? (other than on Amazon or Ebay.  Michael, is it done and replaced by Policy?  Can I purchase a Policy pro, and just "restore" my ISY system to it?  Or is it a whole "start from scratch" sort of deal?  Grazing through this thread, has everything gone to these node servers?  I thought that was the whole new Policy thing coming?

Insteon.... I see several FB posts about Insteon out of stock this and that and blew it off as the on going shortage of everything.  Sure, nobody but Smart Home would really know that I suppose.  As someone said, when one quits I'll look then at replacements.  I'm kinda in that boat too.  However, Lutron.  I had heard of the Casita line for quite a while, but Sunnata?  But it's NOT the same system?  Not interchangeable?  The Sunnata switch looks similar to the Inovelli Red line (with the light bar) Does ISY or Policy (acting as an ISY) control either of them?  RA2/RA3?  NOT a "personalized" Zwave?  BOTH look like they're available from Home Depot?  But above someone made a comment that sounded as if they were only available from certain dealers?  Then what is Home Depot selling?  Someone got a cliff notes version of what the hell has happened?  I SWEAR it wasn't that long.....