Moisture / Leak sensors: Replacements for Insteon

[sjenkins]

As Insteon seems on the decline at least for availability (have had great experience with their moisture sensors) does anyone have recommendations for moisture / leak sensors?  Would prefer z-wave as opposed to wifi.

 

 

[lilyoyo1]

As long as you have the zwave board and a strong mesh, any zwave sensor would work. I use fibaro's.

[sjenkins]

As long as you have the zwave board and a strong mesh, any zwave sensor would work. I use fibaro's.

Yes I may not have been clear, I have z-wave devices and am familiar with them. Trying to get advice / opinions from this crowd on good/bad experiences with the devices & reliability of them. The Insteon’s I have been great but they are the only leak sensors I have used & I am getting worried about the supply as almost all Insteon have been out of stock for a while.


SeJ

[smacbride]

I've used the Aeotec sensors  and they work well with the ISY

[Bumbershoot]

When my Insteon leak sensors go, I'll probably replace them with these little beauties.  I'm already running the Wireless Tag nodeserver, so adding these would be simple.

[sjenkins]

2 hours ago, Bumbershoot said:

When my Insteon leak sensors go, I'll probably replace them with these little beauties.  I'm already running the Wireless Tag nodeserver, so adding these would be simple.

Pretty neat, so you got me looking at their web-site and then your node-server, and then the forum.  You seem to state it in the GitHub but to be clear ALL of this can happen on my local network, from the tags to the tag-manager, to the poly node server, to the ISY (last step obvious)?  And this node server with the rest server works ok on the polyglot since I plan on moving my ISY there as well I'd like to end up with one device.

Thank you so much for bringing this up.  Seems much more reliable than z-wave which I have just found OK so far with a few devices.

Stephen

 

[Jimbo.Automates]

Pretty neat, so you got me looking at their web-site and then your node-server, and then the forum.  You seem to state it in the GitHub but to be clear ALL of this can happen on my local network, from the tags to the tag-manager, to the poly node server, to the ISY (last step obvious)?  And this node server with the rest server works ok on the polyglot since I plan on moving my ISY there as well I'd like to end up with one device.
Thank you so much for bringing this up.  Seems much more reliable than z-wave which I have just found OK so far with a few devices.
Stephen
 

Yes, it all works locally, please use my referral link as mentioned on GitHub https://github.com/jimboca/udi-wirelesstag-poly if you plan to purchase. Currently the leak sensor is not supported but will be added after I update it for PG3, which should hopefully happen soon when I find some time.

Sent from my Pixel 6 Pro using Tapatalk

[MrBill]

17 hours ago, Jimbo said:

Yes, it all works locally,

To be completely clear about it tho, it's not all local.  The tag manager must be connected to that wonderful Wireless tag Windows Cloud Server.

So far I know of 3 major failures in 2021 of the cloud server in 2021 with the most recent being last Thursday night. I was slammed with errors in the app, via email, and all of my ISY programs errored.    In general I've been pretty supportive of wireless tags, but I'm becoming much less enthralled every time we have one of these cloud sever failure "events".

2022 the top of my list is to test zigbee temperature sensors.  Unfortunately that will likely mean that they report to Home Assistant since there isn't a nodeserver.

Frankly, there's also a security issue that no one talks about.  If the tag manager has the ability to make network calls on our local network that originate from wirelesstags cloud server, then a hacker that gains control of the wireless tags cloud server also has open access to our local networks.

[larryllix]

42 minutes ago, MrBill said:

To be completely clear about it tho, it's not all local.  The tag manager must be connected to that wonderful Wireless tag Windows Cloud Server.

So far I know of 3 major failures in 2021 of the cloud server in 2021 with the most recent being last Thursday night. I was slammed with errors in the app, via email, and all of my ISY programs errored.    In general I've been pretty supportive of wireless tags, but I'm becoming much less enthralled every time we have one of these cloud sever failure "events".

2022 the top of my list is to test zigbee temperature sensors.  Unfortunately that will likely mean that they report to Home Assistant since there isn't a nodeserver.

Frankly, there's also a security issue that no one talks about.  If the tag manager has the ability to make network calls on our local network that originate from wirelesstags cloud server, then a hacker that gains control of the wireless tags cloud server also has open access to our local networks.

Not sure about that Tag data path. I thought it was the cloud server that instructed the Tag manager (local) to send out it's data to whomever in the URL's the user provides. @Jimboshould know much more about it and actually I wanted to ask him for a clearer picture of the data path from Tag to his NS to ISY.

Kumoapps have been down for a few very extended outages this year, as you mentioned above. I also wanted to know if NS users experienced this as well. It sounds like they did from your attached comments.

As far as ZigBee I want to research that more. From it's history it may be the goto protocol. There must be some protocol information that one can write drivers for it somewhere.  A NS for ZigBee would be ideal to drop into polisy and be "one giant step for ISY home automation" AFAIC.

 

[sjenkins]

22 minutes ago, larryllix said:

Not sure about that Tag data path. I thought it was the cloud server that instructed the Tag manager (local) to send out it's data to whomever in the URL's the user provides. @Jimboshould know much more about it and actually I wanted to ask him for a clearer picture of the data path from Tag to his NS to ISY.

Kumoapps have been down for a few very extended outages this year, as you mentioned above. I also wanted to know if NS users experienced this as well. It sounds like they did from your attached comments.

As far as ZigBee I want to research that more. From it's history it may be the goto protocol. There must be some protocol information that one can write drivers for it somewhere.  A NS for ZigBee would be ideal to drop into polisy and be "one giant step for ISY home automation" AFAIC.

 

Thought I read that on the forum for this Node server.  Also read that it didn't seem very clear of the data path.  So is it 'all local' but it needs to call momma to work, or does the data really go to the cloud and back. 

I am also interested in Zigbee.  My experience so far with Z-wave has been kind of "OK" but I don't feel the reliability that I have had with the Insteon.  The switches have worked fine but the sensors, door in my case, have been spotty.  Also not interested in a complex path back to the Policy, would like a plug-in like the z-wave or Insteon which can go through a node server.

With all that, any thoughts out there, this is an interesting discussion to me?

 

[larryllix]

1 hour ago, sjenkins said:

Thought I read that on the forum for this Node server.  Also read that it didn't seem very clear of the data path.  So is it 'all local' but it needs to call momma to work, or does the data really go to the cloud and back. 

I am also interested in Zigbee.  My experience so far with Z-wave has been kind of "OK" but I don't feel the reliability that I have had with the Insteon.  The switches have worked fine but the sensors, door in my case, have been spotty.  Also not interested in a complex path back to the Policy, would like a plug-in like the z-wave or Insteon which can go through a node server.

With all that, any thoughts out there, this is an interesting discussion to me?

 

For ZigBee, utilities have been using it to create mesh networks between all their metering points with great success or it would have disappeared by now. Philips Hue has been using it with great reports of reliability. I had 6-7 Hue bulbs myself and the protocol just never missed. (Tossed them due to poor colour rendition ad extreme costs, though).

Some tell me the ZigBee has no standards but others elsewhere tore my head of when I stated that. I was pointed to wikipedia articles on ZigBee standards that have evolved in the last decade and many claim that most devices just work flawlessly with each other.

I wrote some bridge software for MagicHome bulbs and strips and would love to get my hands on a few pieces of ZigBee hardware and a protocol spec for same.

[lilyoyo1]

Besides being terrible for lighting control for various reasons, zwave isn't a bad protocol overall. The problem with it stems from most users trying to use the bare minimum to build out their network only to run into issues. 

Those who build a strong network are generally pleased with the results it provides. 

Zigbee is much better than zwave and insteon but it has its own share of problems. You still have to build out the network as well otherwise you'll run into issues with it as well. 

[Jimbo.Automates]

I had asked on their support if the cloud server was required a long time ago and they had said it should not be, but I can't find that information anywhere, so I have asked him again.  But, if @MrBill says there are issues, I would believe him.  I saw there were issues with their server last week, but it didn't seem to affect the nodeserver for me.

I too wish there was a better zwave or zigbee option that talked directly to the ISY, but I've not found it for even simple temperature monitors, everyone I have tried has issues.

 

[MrBill]

23 hours ago, Jimbo said:

but it didn't seem to affect the nodeserver for me.

I got a bunch of silly error saying my stuff (i.e. the nodeserver) was creating a race condition.  I didn't believe it but restarted the nodeserver anyway.... it didn't calm down so next I got up and unplugged the tag manager.  most of those errors were from the wirlesstags app, but also got an email for each one so my phone wanted to vibrate off the table.  On the ISY side, my tag heartbeat programs were also detecting loss of heartbeat from the tag. 

also heard from 2 other users asking if i was getting those errors and what they meant, that was when my suspicion was confirmed that it was a wireless tag server issue.

I'll have to shut down both internet modems and see if the tags still update the nodeserver, but my memory is they don't.

Edited December 15, 2021 by MrBill

[sjenkins]

2 hours ago, Jimbo said:

I had asked on their support if the cloud server was required a long time ago and they had said it should not be, but I can't find that information anywhere, so I have asked him again.  But, if @MrBill says there are issues, I would believe him.  I saw there were issues with their server last week, but it didn't seem to affect the nodeserver for me.

I too wish there was a better zwave or zigbee option that talked directly to the ISY, but I've not found it for even simple temperature monitors, everyone I have tried has issues.

 

Appreciate the follow-up @Jimbo , understand the answer is not clear.  Life is full of compromise.  I think I will order a server, moisture sensor, & temp sensor to play with (through your link) after Christmas.  For ~$140 seems worth giving it a shot.  I know this forum will bubble up a better answer when it becomes available.  Thanks so much for the discussion, it changed my thoughts on zigbee, my thoughts on whether I have 'built out' my z-wave network to give it a proper chance, & got me feeling better about 'what if Insteon goes away'.  This forum is invaluable.

[Geddy]

@sjenkins Thanks for bringing this up and thanks all for the feedback. I'm somewhat in the same boat. I had some Insteon sensors at one point, but they long ago quit working. I've been flying blind since, but had made some changes to some potential wet areas with pans that should protect water getting into the house. Although having just had some plumbing work done I would feel better having sensors again. 

I just ordered some Wireless tag water sensors so hope they'll work well. I've had the temp sensors (2 different types) for a few months and have been impressed by them. 

As @MrBill states there's been a few cloud issues, and I had the alerts last week when he did. It was a short lived issue and seemed to clear quickly. But it does seem that the company running that might be having some growing pains or just general reliability issues with cloud connections. It's another "big" ticket item that is a risk of not working, but at least they've got a decent track record for many around here. 

Hopefully @Jimbo can get the leak sensors added to the nodeserver soon, but the app will work good enough for notifications until that happens. Thanks for the work on that Jim!