KeypadLinc setup for controlling FanLinc issues

[Gunn]

I previously had an Insteon Hub and the Insteon app controlling my 56 devices, which included 5 KeypadLinc / FanLinc combinations. All worked great. Now moving to ISY994i and attempted to setup my first KeypadLinc / FanLinc combo. Thought it was going to be easy, but hasn't gone over so well. 

I followed the steps in this Wiki article: https://wiki.universal-devices.com/index.php?title=ISY994i:INSTEON_Device:FanLinc-KPL_FanLinc_KeypadLinc_Configuration

I read over it several times before starting and everything seemed rather intuitive and the same as when using the Insteon Hub/App, except for the except for the early steps on "Button Toggle Mode" and "Button Grouping". I especially didn't like the red warnings all over the "Button Grouping" dialog, but proceeded with what the article said to do. 

In the end, I have several issues:

• My fan is now running on high speed no matter what button I push.
• All 4 of my keypad A/B/C/D buttons are all light up.
• When I press any one of them, they flash three times and stay lit. The fan stays on high

Here are my scenes:

Here are the details for the Living Room Fan - High scene. A is the controller and On, the rest are Off. Fan on High:

Here are the details for the Living Room Fan - Medium scene. B is the controller and On, the rest are Off. Fan on Medium:

Here are the details for the Living Room Fan - Low scene. C is the controller and On, the rest are Off. Fan on Low:

Here are the details for the Living Room Fan - Off scene. D is the controller and On, the rest are Off. Fan on Off:

And here is the Button Toggle Mode dialog on the Living Room KeypadLinc:

Can someone point out what I am doing wrong? Also, that Wiki article linked about could sure use some editing, which I would be happy to do if I could. It also mentions steps in each scene to "Click on Copy Scene Attributes from High", which I could not find in the Admin Console anywhere (maybe that is the crucial missing step here?).

Thanks, 

 

[kzboray]

@Gunn

This write up applies to V4x software, for V5x see the second post below this one.

Great write up! This problem has a simple solution!

Select the Insteon scene for Fan OFF, in the bottom half of the screen you will see a couple of buttons and a pull down. Change the protocol to Insteon and the pull down to OFF. Now click on UPDATE. Do this same thing for each scene with the appropriate value (OFF, MEDIUM, HIGH, LOW) and you should be all set.

If you look at all your scenes you will see that their status is listed as HIGH. You want this value to reflect the speed you want for each scene.

As far as the button toggle I think you'll find TOGGLE works better. That way a button is either on for a selected speed or off if another speed has been chosen.

You can also look at BUTTON GROUPINGS to make sure all buttons are setup correctly. You only want the button for the speed you are selecting ON and all the others should be OFF.

Edited December 23, 2021 by kzboray

[lilyoyo1]

I actually recommend that you DO NOT use button groupings. This happens at the device level and the Isy is unaware of the status. If your scenes are set up correctly, you won't need them. 

I don't use non toggle mode. Everything is toggle. That way when you switch to one it automatically will turn the other off. You can also turn the button that's on off which will stop that particular process. Doing it this way means you don't need a separate off button for your scenes. 

If you do desire a separate off, you can still set it up the same way and then make a non toggle off scene with fanlinc and all buttons in it to turn off. 

Your scenes look correct as far as the controllers go. Make sure the Scene itself is configured the same way. (Click on the scene and verify links)

[Javi]

Hi @Gunn,

You are correct that the instructions should be updated, these instructions are for firmware versions less than 5.X. Although the issues your having may be related to your other post were old Insteon links remain from manual or Insteon Hub Scenes.

For 5.X firmware only one Scene needs to be created and links should be adjusted. See the highlighted scene member from the folder structure for link adjustments

 

The Scene Links (all buttons off, except High button. Fan High), This setup will allow UD Mobile to control the fan scene with toggle (high/off) and keep buttons synchronized. Note that Scene Member calculation for UD Mobile should be disabled for all keypad buttons:

 

High Links (all buttons off, except High button. Fan High):

Med Links (all buttons off, except Med button. Fan Med):

Low Links (all buttons off, except Low button. Fan Low):

 

Edit: I've updated our wiki with 5.x instructions

https://wiki.universal-devices.com/index.php?title=ISY994i:INSTEON_Device:FanLinc-KPL_FanLinc_KeypadLinc_Configuration

[Gunn]

6 hours ago, kzboray said:

@Gunn Great write up! This problem has a simple solution!

Select the Insteon scene for Fan OFF, in the bottom half of the screen you will see a couple of buttons and a pull down. Change the protocol to Insteon and the pull down to OFF. Now click on UPDATE. Do this same thing for each scene with the appropriate value (OFF, MEDIUM, HIGH, LOW) and you should be all set.

Thanks! I have figured it out based on your suggestions, however a bit differently.

So for this first step, when I select the scene for Fan OFF, in the bottom half of the screen is only one option, which was already set correctly for the Fan - Motor.

BUT, in just peeking and poking around looking for things, I found that if I clicked on the controller for that scene ("Living Room Keypad - D"), then there were two options. For the "On Level", it was set as "High" for the Fan-Motor in each of my scenes. When I changed this to "Off" and then clicked the "Update" button, it fixed the issue with this scene. I then clicked on the controller for each scene and adjusted this setting accordingly. See here:

For the button toggle mode, I noticed you had yours in a Mutually Exclusive Buttons 1, so I changed mine to Toggle and then put them in the group like yours. 

Before:

After:

I do need to read up on what this does, but it also fixed the issue with the lighting of the buttons. 

So now everything is behaving properly, thank you so much for the help!

 

[Gunn]

39 minutes ago, Javi said:

Hi @Gunn,

You are correct that the instructions should be updated, these instructions are for firmware versions less than 5.X. Although the issues your having may be related to your other post were old Insteon links remain from manual or Insteon Hub Scenes.

For 5.X firmware only one Scene needs to be created and links should be adjusted. See the highlighted scene member from the folder structure for link adjustments

Edit: I've updated our wiki with 5.x instructions

 

Wow, thanks for the updates, and the updated instructions! I was just messing with what I had and following the instructions by kzboray before this was posted. But I will review and either convert to this method, and/or try it on another Fanlinc/KeypadLinc combination I have yet to setup.  It does look much simpler to deal with, having only one scene. Thanks again!

(btw, I have factory reset everything and started fresh with ISY so all my links are now good)

 

Edited December 19, 2021 by Gunn

[lilyoyo1]

1 minute ago, Gunn said:

Thanks! I have figured it out based on your suggestions, however a bit differently.

So for this first step, when I select the scene for Fan OFF, in the bottom half of the screen is only one option, which was already set correctly for the Fan - Motor.

BUT, in just peeking and poking around looking for things, I found that if I clicked on the controller for that scene ("Living Room Keypad - D"), then there were two options. For the "On Level", it was set as "High" for the Fan-Motor in each of my scenes. When I changed this to "Off" and then clicked the "Update" button, it fixed the issue with this scene. I then clicked on the controller for each scene and adjusted this setting accordingly. See here:

For the button toggle mode, I noticed you had yours in a Mutually Exclusive Buttons 1, so I changed mine to Toggle and then put them in the group like yours. 

Before:

After:

I do need to read up on what this does, but it also fixed the issue with the lighting of the buttons. 

So now everything is behaving properly, thank you so much for the help!

 

Scenes accomplish the same as mutually exclusive groupings. The only difference is mutually exclusive resides at the device level so the Isy is unaware of what's going on. This can impact things such as programs and troubleshooting issues

[Geddy]

2 hours ago, Javi said:

Edit: I've updated our wiki with 5.x instructions

WOOHOO! Thank you @Javi for updating the Wiki on this for 5.x instructions. It will be VERY helpful for new users to set it up with the way scenes are handled in 5.x. Mine were setup in the old 4.x world and really causing me problems.

1 hour ago, lilyoyo1 said:

Scenes accomplish the same as mutually exclusive groupings. The only difference is mutually exclusive resides at the device level so the Isy is unaware of what's going on. This can impact things such as programs and troubleshooting issues

100% THIS @lilyoyo1! This was 100% of an issue I was having with each keypad I setup years ago. The instructions included altering the grouping and that was recently causing me issues. I went back and factory reset each keypad and set them up in the 5.x scene process (as @Javi outlines above). Much better ( more reliable) control of the devices! (Thanks also to @MrBill for a suggestion of changing how they were originally setup.)

 

1 hour ago, Gunn said:

(btw, I have factory reset everything and started fresh with ISY so all my links are now good)

@Gunn Happy Dance! You finally reset everything. I think you'll find that very helpful for the entire system. 

[Gunn]

7 hours ago, Javi said:

Hi @Gunn,

You are correct that the instructions should be updated, these instructions are for firmware versions less than 5.X. Although the issues your having may be related to your other post were old Insteon links remain from manual or Insteon Hub Scenes.

For 5.X firmware only one Scene needs to be created and links should be adjusted. See the highlighted scene member from the folder structure for link adjustments

...

Edit: I've updated our wiki with 5.x instructions

https://wiki.universal-devices.com/index.php?title=ISY994i:INSTEON_Device:FanLinc-KPL_FanLinc_KeypadLinc_Configuration

Javi,

I have followed the Wiki instructions for setting up another KeypadLinc/FanLinc combo and it worked like a charm. Much nicer and easier to do. I'm going to use this method for my remaining combinations and go back and re-set my Living Room scene as mentioned in the original post. 

The only difference I ended up making is to add an Off controller (Keypad D), as I have the 6-button KeypadLinc's and my family is all used to pressing the Off button (D) to turn off the fan. Adding the D button as a controller and setting the Fan speed to Off worked to accomplish this. The only issue this brings is that if by chance the fan is running and someone toggles that speed button, it will turn off the fan but the D button LED will not be lit. But I think this is the same behavior I had in the past with the OEM app and hub. No big deal.

The last sentence in the Wiki Firmware 5.x section about "Scene Links (all buttons off, except High button. Fan High), This setup will allow UD Mobile..." I didn't understand. But I don't use UD Mobile, so that's probably why. (I would note the comma after "Fan High)" and then an uppercase This. Seems like this should be a period here?

Thanks again for updating that document. Much appreciated.

[Javi]

Hi @Gunn,

Thank you, fixed punctuation. 

If you would like an off button to show OFF STATUS there are a few ways to accomplish this, although I think it would cause too much confusion if added to our wiki. Below is one example, I'm sure others here will have different/better methods which vary in difficulty.

Add the off keypad button to another scene as a responder. Due to insteon limitations non-load keypad buttons can only be controlled by the ISY when they are in a scene. Now setup a program IF to monitor the STATUS of the FAN MOTOR when OFF.   In the THEN part of the program turn ON the scene with only the off button. Note that a second or two delay may be needed ahead of the ON command, this will account for brief STATUS off values. The ISY will stop running the program if the status changes in this brief delay.