photogeek54 Posted February 15, 2022 Posted February 15, 2022 I have a geofence and device setup in the portal. I assigned the geofence to the device and synced with the ISY. the instructions at: https://wiki.universal-devices.com/index.php?title=ISY_Portal_Node_Server_Occupancy_V2_%26_UDI_Mobile_app_Instructions say I should see a request to enter the 6 digit code on UD mobile on my iphone but I never see it and it never gave me a way to setup the geofence location. Ideas?
Javi Posted February 15, 2022 Posted February 15, 2022 Hi @photogeek54, The instructions are for UDI Mobile, a third party app, which appears to have been removed from Google Play. Geofencing for UD Mobile is on our list but not yet implemented.
Geddy Posted February 16, 2022 Posted February 16, 2022 @photogeek54 You should be able to setup Geofence with Occupancy and Locative (on iOS) and have it control things on the ISY 994i (or IoP [ISY on Polisy] - maybe...I haven't personally attempted the IoP route.) https://wiki.universal-devices.com/index.php?title=ISY_Portal_Node_Server_Occupancy_and_Locative_app_Instructions Locative is no longer supported on Android phones, but it is being updated on iOS devices.
sumguy Posted February 23, 2022 Posted February 23, 2022 @Javi I have one request for when you implement geofencing in UD Mobile. When the geofence is triggered upon exit or entry, can you please have the app verify that the entry in the ISY actually gets updated. Currently using locative with ISY Portal and when I cross the geofence, Locative just sends the GET request once without verifying the ISY actually received it. My cell signal is weak in my neighborhood and only has about a 60% success rate in reaching the ISY upon crossing. If there is an alternate way to make this work, I am open to suggestions! Thanks for the consideration.
MrBill Posted February 23, 2022 Posted February 23, 2022 10 hours ago, sumguy said: 60% success rate in reaching the ISY upon crossing Have you updated iOS to 15.3.1? If not please do because geofences were actually broken iniOS and unreliable from the release of 15 until earlier this month... i think the fix is in 15.3 but 15.3.1 is current. I do agree with your suggestion, but if you're unaware of the iOS breakage of geofences the above may help also. 1
sumguy Posted February 23, 2022 Posted February 23, 2022 Yes I am on 15.3.1. But it's still hit or miss. I've lived at my current location for just over two years and the entire time it's been spotty. Even before Apple broke geofences. Thanks for the info though. I didn't realize that Apple finally fixed it with this release.
Geddy Posted February 23, 2022 Posted February 23, 2022 @sumguy what if you had two geofence areas to trigger? Perhaps one of them would trigger more regularly. Put the second in a larger area where you know the cell signal is better. It depends what you're triggering with geofence that you could add a wait as you cross the first boundary to trigger as you get closer to the house.
Javi Posted February 24, 2022 Posted February 24, 2022 On 2/22/2022 at 8:36 PM, sumguy said: @Javi I have one request for when you implement geofencing in UD Mobile. When the geofence is triggered upon exit or entry, can you please have the app verify that the entry in the ISY actually gets updated. Currently using locative with ISY Portal and when I cross the geofence, Locative just sends the GET request once without verifying the ISY actually received it. My cell signal is weak in my neighborhood and only has about a 60% success rate in reaching the ISY upon crossing. If there is an alternate way to make this work, I am open to suggestions! Thanks for the consideration. Hi @sumguy, I understand your issue, and I'll see what we can do at that time. Some geofence issues are caused by OS limitations and can not be changed by app developers. I estimate 3/4 of used cases can be covered by basic geofence implementations. About 1/8 of used cases will require workarounds with added permissions, keep alive, and wake interval settings. The final 1/8 of cases may never be resolved. In the case of poor internet connection we have a few issues. The first is the OS may limit the amount of time an app has to perform background tasks, this includes sending a web request or saving data to persistent storage. If the data is saved to persistent storage when a request fails, something else would have to wake the app to check if the connection is available. Even if we have timers set to wake the app every X minutes, which Apple may reject as it would defeat battery preservation, do we still send the request X minutes or X hours later? If we do send the request late it should include a timestamp. The server (ISY and/or Node Server) needs time verification so that it does not trigger and incoming request if it has a later timestamp than the previous request. 1 1
sumguy Posted February 26, 2022 Posted February 26, 2022 @Geddy I've thought about your solution a few times. Problem is, I live in this master planned community. It's 1 mile wide by 2 miles long. When they built it, they refused to let cell companies put up towers in it to preserve its beauty or some garbage like that haha. I have to travel approximately 2 miles before my cell signal hits 2 bars. I have a program set to make sure the alarm is set, lights are out, and garage is shut once my wife's phone and my phone are both out of the geofence. I also have it only open the garage when we get close to home. I'd have to set the geofence a mile or two out which wouldn't trigger if we were at a friends house in the neighborhood or at the kid's school. I'm going to mess around with it and see if I can come up with a better solution. @Javi Thanks for the reply. Never considered the limitation of the OS. I'm hoping iOS will let the app check every few minutes until it can confirm with ISY Portal that it received the the crossing trigger. So many of us rely on geofences to make sure our homes are secure. It would be great if we had a near bulletproof solution to guarantee the crossing will be received by our ISY. I also understand that it may not be possible at all. Just wanted to throw the suggestion out there and see if you could just keep it in mind when developing that part of the app. As always, appreciate the work you have already put into the app. It's nice to finally have an app for the ISY that has lots of functionality. It was the wild west before!
MrBill Posted February 26, 2022 Posted February 26, 2022 (edited) @sumguy I have a method that results in a few false notifications, but for the most part works, I started using this after the great iOS 15 breakage by apple. Either garage door closing starts a 1 minute wait. if someone opens the door going into the house the wait is canceled, if the wait finishes , it checks to see if away mode is set if it is, it exists silently, if away mode is not set I get a notification. For us this works better than trying to remember as we leave to make sure away made came on. Program garage_closed If garage 1 is switched off or garage 2 is switched off Then Wait 60 seconds run program check_away (if) Else (nothing) Program check_away (disabled) (note: disabled programs still run when called by another program.) If $sAway <= 0 then Send notification..... else (nothing) Program Stop_garage_timer If Garage2HouseDoor is switched to On then Stop Program garage_closed else (none) It does send false notifications when only one of us leaves, but for us that works out better than remembering to verify if the geofence worked. (there's actually a couple more inventive ways to cancel the wait, so a lot of times we use one of those too) Edited February 26, 2022 by MrBill 1
Jimbo.Automates Posted February 26, 2022 Posted February 26, 2022 Personally I just use Tasker to set Home/Away for each person based on connection to the WiFi, there has to be a small wait time on disconnect since phones occasionally loose connection for short periods of time. Using geofences had to many false triggers and this wifi method has been very robust for me for a long time. Anyone on Android can grab my Tasker share if they are interested JimboISY Tasker Share @Javi I would prefer UD Mobile implement this method as an option. I already tell it what my WiFi networks are, so it could set a variable or define toggle a node based on that 1
Javi Posted February 27, 2022 Posted February 27, 2022 On 2/26/2022 at 10:58 AM, JimboAutomates said: Personally I just use Tasker to set Home/Away for each person based on connection to the WiFi, there has to be a small wait time on disconnect since phones occasionally loose connection for short periods of time. Using geofences had to many false triggers and this wifi method has been very robust for me for a long time. Anyone on Android can grab my Tasker share if they are interested JimboISY Tasker Share @Javi I would prefer UD Mobile implement this method as an option. I already tell it what my WiFi networks are, so it could set a variable or define toggle a node based on that I've used a similar tasker profile in the past as my results were also better with WiFi than geofencing. I feel that the basic iOS geofencing is superior to the basic Android geofencing, especially when we consider multiple manufacturers (i.e. Samsung) implementing their own battery saving features. However when adding the required permissions, changing settings, and adjusting polls with Tasker I feel Android has the advantage. I am very hesitant to implement the WiFi method as I foresee too many support issues. If you know what your doing tasker works fine, if you don't the same implementation on UD Mobile will not work either. The main issue being WiFi will disconnect a few times a day event if the device is in the same location, some of this is mitigated by disabling battery saving features. There was a time a few years ago I swore I'd been hacked or haunted as the lamp in my office would turn on/off at random times day and night as I had left a Tasker profile active on a development device. The cell tower density of rural, suburban, or urban environments along with type of transportation have a role in success rates. Living in an urban area most of my errands and previous employers where within 3 miles, so the basic geofencing implementations failed frequently when driving, but worked well when walking. If I had Google maps, or any other gps app, running while driving geofencing worked better. However I have no reason to use Navigation driving to locations within my community. Finally, trying to add family members into the mix, some who frequently have a dead phone, children who have restricted use times, and some who frequently left the device at home, it became too much. I say this as, much like @MrBill, I found another way to ensure security is being monitored. In my case we walk more than drive and parking in not attached to the home, so we just need to monitor the doors and motion sensors. With that said we do plan on implementing the basic geofencing methods by Apple and Google in UD Mobile. If the basic geofencing methods do not work for a user, it may be better to find another solution to monitor location. 1
Geddy Posted February 27, 2022 Posted February 27, 2022 On 2/26/2022 at 10:36 AM, sumguy said: I also have it only open the garage when we get close to home. That's risky business there! I'd never have a geofence setup to open up access to the house. What if you were within your fence area, but not going home? Sure, you can try to make a very small area/boundary to cross so you might be in the driveway looking at the house, but opening up an entrance to the house is not my idea of something I would trust to geofence (the way it's been designed to date). And I get the part about not having a cell tower in the planned community. That sucks, and we have the same near where we live. Thankfully not impacting us directly, but that is a direction that I have issues when I cross my geofence boundary, but usually my iPhone and Mobilinc pick up the change when the phone hits the next tower closer to home. 1
Jimbo.Automates Posted February 28, 2022 Posted February 28, 2022 8 hours ago, Javi said: I am very hesitant to implement the WiFi method as I foresee too many support issues. If you know what your doing tasker works fine, if you don't the same implementation on UD Mobile will not work either. The main issue being WiFi will disconnect a few times a day event if the device is in the same location, some of this is mitigated by disabling battery saving features. There was a time a few years ago I swore I'd been hacked or haunted as the lamp in my office would turn on/off at random times day and night as I had left a Tasker profile active on a development device. Yes, I understand your hesitancy, but for me it has been extremely robust with some simple bounce detection, and I'd really like it to be integrated into UD Mobile. My trials with using geofencing were horrible, many false exits for me, but of course I haven't tried it in a couple years, and still the battery drain from a simple wifi check must be better than geofencing I don't use if for anything security related, just changing HVAC settings, sending notificaitons if doors/windows are open, if everyone is gone let us know we didn't arm the alarm, ...
DennisC Posted February 28, 2022 Posted February 28, 2022 I have been using geofencing via Tasker on Android to tell my ISY when we are home for several years. A couple of years ago it stopped working but for the last two years it has been solid on 2 Samsung Galaxy S20+ phones. 1
Javi Posted February 28, 2022 Posted February 28, 2022 11 hours ago, JimboAutomates said: Yes, I understand your hesitancy, but for me it has been extremely robust with some simple bounce detection, and I'd really like it to be integrated into UD Mobile. My trials with using geofencing were horrible, many false exits for me, but of course I haven't tried it in a couple years, and still the battery drain from a simple wifi check must be better than geofencing I don't use if for anything security related, just changing HVAC settings, sending notificaitons if doors/windows are open, if everyone is gone let us know we didn't arm the alarm, ... I'll see what we can do with network change triggers, likely after the default geofencing has been implemented. 1 hour ago, DennisC said: I have been using geofencing via Tasker on Android to tell my ISY when we are home for several years. A couple of years ago it stopped working but for the last two years it has been solid on 2 Samsung Galaxy S20+ phones. That's great, the default geofence implementation should work in your case. I assume you are not using the WiFi method used by @JimboAutomates, my Samsung devices had mixed results compared to Pixel devices with regards to WiFi disconnects during long durations of screen off.
DennisC Posted February 28, 2022 Posted February 28, 2022 5 hours ago, Javi said: That's great, the default geofence implementation should work in your case. I assume you are not using the WiFi method used by @JimboAutomates, my Samsung devices had mixed results compared to Pixel devices with regards to WiFi disconnects during long durations of screen off. Actually, I do both and set 2 different variables on my ISY, just in case. I am detecting the change in connection to my specific wifi network. I also am using Tasker for this. I have a 2 minute waiting period upon leaving my wifi area to prevent bouncing in and out. I have not experienced any issues when the screen goes off. 1
Javi Posted March 1, 2022 Posted March 1, 2022 17 hours ago, DennisC said: Actually, I do both and set 2 different variables on my ISY, just in case. I am detecting the change in connection to my specific wifi network. I also am using Tasker for this. I have a 2 minute waiting period upon leaving my wifi area to prevent bouncing in and out. I have not experienced any issues when the screen goes off. Thanks @DennisC. That is great news and reduces some of my fears of WiFi trigger implementation. 1
slimypizza Posted March 3, 2022 Posted March 3, 2022 (edited) I use geofencing and haven’t had too many issues with it over the years. I formerly used (ios) Locative to send REST commands but when I started using Home Assistant (HA) as my front end UI a couple of months ago, I took advantage of the trackers it has that tie into our cell phones. Setting up a geofence through HA was easy and we deleted Locative in favor of this approach. I use this for our system to determine if we’re home or not. If everyone is away, that triggers a set of (ISY) programs to turn lights on/off and set thermostats. When someone comes home, the garage door opens and a subset of lights come on depending on the time of day, and the thermostats reset. I realize there may be perceived security issues opening the garage door but I consider those to be low. Edited March 3, 2022 by slimypizza clarifiation
rebirth24 Posted March 30, 2022 Posted March 30, 2022 On 2/15/2022 at 10:41 AM, Javi said: Hi @photogeek54, The instructions are for UDI Mobile, a third party app, which appears to have been removed from Google Play. Geofencing for UD Mobile is on our list but not yet implemented. Any idea where to get UDI Mobile?
Javi Posted March 30, 2022 Posted March 30, 2022 1 hour ago, rebirth24 said: Any idea where to get UDI Mobile? Not from any legitimate sources. Most users have prefered tasker geofencing over UDI Mobile on Android for some time. 2
photogeek54 Posted April 5, 2022 Author Posted April 5, 2022 I’ve been struggling to get a very high confidence method for home/away detection for years now. Network detection seems pretty good but yes I see occasional short dropouts that I need to program around but it’s not 100% foolproof in my house. I supplement this with some Bluetooth beacons using locative on iOS but it’s also not 100%. I also add in geofencing with both ifttt and locative. Here again sometimes one of them misses an entry or exit. Seems like the iOS api should provide some knowledge not only of crossing the geofence but the fact that if I’m within the geofence for some length of time then it should use that to override a missed geofence crossing.
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