Insteon system now useless...converting to ISY994i

[SScheitel]

Rebuilt my home back in 2018 after devasting fire took everything.  The rebuild included Insteon everywhere.  All switches, doors, closets, etc...

Went to bed two nights ago and as I have done every night I said, Alexa...turn off sunset, which blackout the entire house.  Who knew that would be the last time that would work. 

Ok now that I have gone through the seven stages grief, I am now ready to move forward.  I actually purchased an ISY994 and Insteon serial modem two years ago with the intention of switching but never did (lazy mostly).  Seems now I have no choice. 

Ripped out the Insteon hub. unboxed the ISY and serial model, connected everything.  Made certain that the ISY showed up in the UD portal and now what???  Can I do an auto discover?  All of my devices are buried in walls, behind outlet covers, ect...

I don't mind having to recreate the scenes....but how do I get the ISY to "see" all of my Insteon devices?

[lilyoyo1]

12 minutes ago, SScheitel said:

Rebuilt my home back in 2018 after devasting fire took everything.  The rebuild included Insteon everywhere.  All switches, doors, closets, etc...

Went to bed two nights ago and as I have done every night I said, Alexa...turn off sunset, which blackout the entire house.  Who knew that would be the last time that would work. 

Ok now that I have gone through the seven stages grief, I am now ready to move forward.  I actually purchased an ISY994 and Insteon serial modem two years ago with the intention of switching but never did (lazy mostly).  Seems now I have no choice. 

Ripped out the Insteon hub. unboxed the ISY and serial model, connected everything.  Made certain that the ISY showed up in the UD portal and now what???  Can I do an auto discover?  All of my devices are buried in walls, behind outlet covers, ect...

I don't mind having to recreate the scenes....but how do I get the ISY to "see" all of my Insteon devices?

You can't. Two different systems. If you can still get the Id of your INSTEON devices you can use that to add them.

[SScheitel]

My Insteon hub still works....am I able to locally connect to it to pull down all of this information?

[Teken]

I'm going to offer you some advise that will on the surface sound like a lot of work. But, in the long run will save what little hair is on your head and keep your blood pressure down to a single bar.

- Factory reset all existing hardware as outlined by the full users manual.

- Take a picture of all the Insteon ID's and record it to a spreadsheet.

- Add all of the hardwired devices first

- Add the wireless devices last

Once the entire system is fully operational with scenes, programs, timers etc. Make a back up of the same and place it on three different locations and media: Cloud, USB, Computer system(s).

The ISY Series Controller allows you to save a topology map and their associations. So if you ever have to start from scratch you can reference this to speed up the deployment. In the device tree when you right mouse click is the option to create a *Note*.

Use this to track what ever from replacement of hardware to battery changes. 

If you decide to use what people often refer to *Crawling the network* you're going to living with a time bomb and less hair on your head . . . 

[SScheitel]

Thanks.  I realize the long road ahead....

Which of these steps will allow me to record the ID/MAC addresses?

[Teken]

9 minutes ago, SScheitel said:

Thanks.  I realize the long road ahead....

Which of these steps will allow me to record the ID/MAC addresses?

As @lilyoyo1 mentioned if the Insteon smart application is still accessible to view the Insteon ID that would be the easiest approach. If that isn't available then you tap and add each device manually to add it to the ISY Series Controller.

Anything you can not reach or see for tap & add you will need to read the Insteon ID label.

[SScheitel]

yeah the app is toast.  If it weren't then I wouldn't be asking these questions.  I'd just log in and record each ID.

 

Can you please elaborate on "tap and add each device manually to add it to the ISY Series Controller"

How is this done?

Edited April 15, 2022 by SScheitel
spelling

[SScheitel]

UPDATE...

All you need to do is map one Insteon device in the UD app and it will autodiscover all Insteon devices that are on the network.

[SScheitel]

34 minutes ago, SScheitel said:

UPDATE...

All you need to do is map one Insteon device in the UD app and it will autodiscover all Insteon devices that are on the network.

scratch that...it appears to have added some but not all.  Stay tuned...this is work in progress for me.  This is all so very new to me

 

[Michael805]

And for the people like me who don't currently own a ISY Serial Controller?  I tried to buy one a year ago and could not find them anywhere, so I am assuming it's even more impossible now.  What do peeps like me do?  Screwed, right?

[lilyoyo1]

2 hours ago, Michael805 said:

And for the people like me who don't currently own a ISY Serial Controller?  I tried to buy one a year ago and could not find them anywhere, so I am assuming it's even more impossible now.  What do peeps like me do?  Screwed, right?

Have you bothered to try and look? I didn't have any problems seeing them on UDI's website or Amazon

[SScheitel]

13 hours ago, Teken said:

I'm going to offer you some advise that will on the surface sound like a lot of work. But, in the long run will save what little hair is on your head and keep your blood pressure down to a single bar.

- Factory reset all existing hardware as outlined by the full users manual.

- Take a picture of all the Insteon ID's and record it to a spreadsheet.

- Add all of the hardwired devices first

- Add the wireless devices last

Once the entire system is fully operational with scenes, programs, timers etc. Make a back up of the same and place it on three different locations and media: Cloud, USB, Computer system(s).

The ISY Series Controller allows you to save a topology map and their associations. So if you ever have to start from scratch you can reference this to speed up the deployment. In the device tree when you right mouse click is the option to create a *Note*.

Use this to track what ever from replacement of hardware to battery changes. 

If you decide to use what people often refer to *Crawling the network* you're going to living with a time bomb and less hair on your head . . . 

ok so having been at this for a few hours I believe I now understand what you are suggesting here Teken....while I originally thought you meant that I should factory reset the Insteon hub....I now believe that you mean to factory reset each device, one at a time, so as to delete all associations and avoid any gremlin-like situations during the programing of the ISY,  Am I correct?

[MrBill]

56 minutes ago, SScheitel said:

Am I correct?

Yes, that's what he was saying.

[Ross]

6 hours ago, lilyoyo1 said:

Have you bothered to try and look? I didn't have any problems seeing them on UDI's website or Amazon

There are many folks just coming to this board for the first time and it pains me that they get castigated - they are totally freaking out!  The 2nd sentence is fairly helpful but the first is quite unnecessary.

May we just have a weeklong moratorium on snark while their worlds have been upended?  If you can't help yourself, just say something like <snark omitted> to get it off your chest and then type the helpful part.

Edited April 16, 2022 by Ross

[lilyoyo1]

3 minutes ago, Ross said:

There are many folks just coming to this board for the first time and it pains me that they get castigated - they are totally freaking out!  The 2nd sentence is fairly helpful but the first is quite unnecessary.

May we just have a weeklong moratorium on snark while their worlds have been upended?  If you can't help yourself, just say something like <snark omitted> to get it off your chest and then type the helpful part.

It was a question. Nothing more nothing less. Yes, many people are freaking out with many of us (including myself spent most of the day yesterday responding to those same people to help...what about you? How much assistance have you offered?

It took more time to post a question than simply going to amazon and typing isy994. First listing that pops up....isy994 zwave

[apostolakisl]

6 hours ago, SScheitel said:

ok so having been at this for a few hours I believe I now understand what you are suggesting here Teken....while I originally thought you meant that I should factory reset the Insteon hub....I now believe that you mean to factory reset each device, one at a time, so as to delete all associations and avoid any gremlin-like situations during the programing of the ISY,  Am I correct?

With ISY, you don't need to know the Insteon address.  It has a discover mode.  You just click on the auto discover button on the ISY menu, and then press and hold the discover button on each device.  You can do a whole bunch at once.  I would start by going through every insteon device in your house and pull the tab out, then press in and hold until the long beep quits.  This factory resets.  After that, put ISY in discover mode and press the little button on each device and in a second or two ISY will discover it.  Label the device in the ISY app.  Before you start, I would create a plan for how you will name things and create a folder tree.  Life is much easier later on.  I like to add an "L" to the end of the name of every device that manages the actual load.  Once all of your devices are part of Insteon, then start creating your scenes.  You will find that ISY allows the creation of extremely complex scenes, if you like.  It can get confusing because there are so many options.  But in the end, you will appreciate it.  Understand that each scene has one or more controller devices.  A device can control only one scene, but respond to as many as you like.  Each device will also have local settings.  Meaning that when you push that device's switch paddle, the local settings are what happens, any scene to which it is a responder or controller is irrelevant, the local settings is what that device does when you control it directly (locally).  Then there are the settings when the device is the responder to a scene.  They can be the same or different as the local settings.  Lets take an example, you have a 3 way.  Each device is set as a controller to the scene.  You want all 3 switches to do the same thing.  Within the scene, you set each device to respond as you like (all the same).  You then need to set each device independently to do the same thing when locally controlled.  The beauty of this is that it doesn't have to be that way.  You could instead make something different happen when you touch each of the three switches.  A single scene with three controllers could do different things when using each of the 3 switches, if you like.

Anyway, in short, factory reset, add devices to ISY, and have a clear plan of organizing them before you start.

[stillwater]

"ISY Serial Controller"

I assumed @Michael805 meant a 2413s, or maybe a 2413s+ISY994i, not an ISY 994i

[brians]

3 hours ago, lilyoyo1 said:

It was a question. Nothing more nothing less. Yes, many people are freaking out with many of us (including myself spent most of the day yesterday responding to those same people to help...what about you? How much assistance have you offered?

It took more time to post a question than simply going to amazon and typing isy994. First listing that pops up....isy994 zwave

I believe that Michael805 was referring to an "ISY Serial Controller", which I would interpret as a Serial PLM 2413S, which are not easy to find. I don't think he was talking about Zwave.

I just checked ebay and none currently listed but have been known to go for $400+. I did find this gem though... https://www.ebay.ca/itm/185381549545?hash=item2b2999f5e9:g:kTIAAOSwjS1iVEya

Feel sorry for the current high bidder

 

Edited April 16, 2022 by brians

[mwester]

51 minutes ago, brians said:

...Feel sorry for the current high bidder

As do I.  I checked listings for variants of "insteon hub" including the model numbers; they are all going for much higher prices than you'd expect if users understood they are mostly useless now.

Since there was no announcement, and the status page still claims (wrongly) that all services are up, I wonder if there are a lot of people assuming their hubs have failed and are flocking to eBay to buy a replacement.  They are going to be very very unhappy...

[gregkinney]

Quote

There are many folks just coming to this board for the first time and it pains me that they get castigated - they are totally freaking out!  The 2nd sentence is fairly helpful but the first is quite unnecessary.

May we just have a weeklong moratorium on snark while their worlds have been upended?  If you can't help yourself, just say something like <snark omitted> to get it off your chest and then type the helpful part.

@Ross Completely agree, however, it doesn't seem to work. With all the newbies as of the last 72 hours, I've watched his derogatory commentary in overdrive. It's obvious the derogation is something he requires to feel better about himself. However, it's all a farce. It's textbook low confidence and a defense mechanism he uses to shield himself so he doesn't have to feel the true pain of his low self worth.

@lilyoyo1 Have you ever heard it takes 1,000 atta-boys to overcome one insult? From what I've read on the forum, my opinion is that you are "offering assistance" less than 50% of the time. But I want you to know that I think you are a very intelligent person with a lot to offer the world! If I met you in person, I would give you a high-five like I do my three year old son and tell you what a good job you're doing. You don't have to resort to put downs like a bully on the playground. The rest of us are adults here.

And I believe the commenter that received the snarky response is talking about a PLM, not an ISY. I'm definitely making an assumption, but here's my theory:

1. I've never heard anyone describe an ISY with the word "serial."

2. The word "serial" is in the name of the product 2413s.

3. Finally, and the most obvious if you use some common sense, ISY's are not hard to find now, or a year ago. 2413s's are hard to find and were also hard to find a year ago.

With all of that said, an easy way this could have been figured out would have been something like:

@Michael805 Did you mean the Insteon PLM Serial Modem Interface 2413S when you said "ISY serial controller?"

Edited April 16, 2022 by gregkinney

[lilyoyo1]

14 minutes ago, gregkinney said:

@Ross Completely agree, however, it doesn't seem to work. With all the newbies as of the last 72 hours, I've watched his derogatory commentary in overdrive. It's obvious the derogation is something he requires to feel better about himself. However, it's all a farce. It's textbook low confidence and a defense mechanism he uses to shield himself so he doesn't have to feel the true pain of his low self worth.

@lilyoyo1 Have you ever heard it takes 1,000 atta-boys to overcome one insult? From what I've read on the forum, my opinion is that you are "offering assistance" less than 50% of the time. But I want you to know that I think you are a very intelligent person with a lot to offer the world! If I met you in person, I would give you a high-five like I do my three year old son and tell you what a good job you're doing. You don't have to resort to put downs like a bully on the playground. The rest of us are adults here.

And I believe the commenter that received the snarky response is talking about a PLM, not an ISY. I'm definitely making an assumption, but here's my theory:

1. I've never heard anyone describe an ISY with the word "serial."

2. The word "serial" is in the name of the product 2413s.

3. Finally, and the most obvious if you use some common sense, ISY's are not hard to find now, or a year ago. 2413s's are hard to find and were also hard to find a year ago.

With all of that said, an easy way this could have been figured out would have been something like:

@Michael805 Did you mean the Insteon PLM Serial Modem Interface 2413S when you said "ISY serial controller?"

Here you go. What derogatory comments are on overdrive? How many questions have you answered or helped with? The very first 2 posts on the Smarthome forum details (1 of which I wrote)what people need to get started with UDI products as well as the information being on their main webpage etc. Remind me, what have you done?

If you actually read my stuff, you'll see I've haven't put anyone down. With half a dozen posts on here with links and the same questions asked throughout, it is easy information to find at this point. Theres nothing wrong with asking people if they are even trying to help themselves about certain things. People often say there are no helpful guides, you can't find out anything etc. But @Geddyhas been organizing things to make it easier but yet many still don't try to use the readily available resources to answer their stuff. At that point, yes I'll ask if they tried. You might consider that snarky or mean but ultimately sometimes people do have to try and help themselves. 

Isy/polisy isn't an easy system to use. It's going to take time and effort to learn this system and what's it about. Im trying to push people to use the resources in front of them to prepare themselves and learn how to help themselves. If not and the expecta8is hand holding throughout, what could/should become a great system could actually do the opposite and become a nightmare

 

Edited April 16, 2022 by lilyoyo1

[RPerrault]

9 minutes ago, lilyoyo1 said:

Here you go. What derogatory comments are on overdrive? How many questions have you answered or helped with? The very first 2 posts on the Smarthome forum details (1 of which I wrote)what people need to get started with UDI products as well as the information being on their main webpage etc. Remind me, what have you done?

 

and i posted the first

removed 2 brain tumors today - stopped and served lunch at the soup kitchen - rescued a drowning 2 year old and climbed a tree to help a stranded cat

now to help you - read your posts objectively 

got to run - an old lady needs help crossing the road

 

[lilyoyo1]

Just now, RPerrault said:

and i posted the first

removed 2 brain tumors today - stopped and served lunch at the soup kitchen - rescued a drowning 2 year old and climbed a tree to help a stranded cat

now to help you - read your posts objectively 

got to run - an old lady needs help crossing the road

 

Great job. I saved a lot of money by switching to GEICO

[SScheitel]

Hopefully those folks eventually find this post.

I will share that while I work in IT, I am by no means a networking expert.  That said, the first thing that I did when I saw that my Insteon hub had power and a solid red LED is perform the network test.  That test yielded that in fact I had a valid IP address, I was connected to my network, it was reaching the internet but it was NOT able to reach the Insteon servers.

It was failing tests 4 thru 7....

My point is....I had a good hunch that the problem was related to Insteon and not my system.

Network Diagnostics

To begin diagnostics, tap the set button twice, wait one second and then tap the set button again once.

Insteon Hub will proceed through seven distinct testing phases with status conveyed through beeping.

A single beep indicates that a test has passed.
A double-beep indicates that a test has failed.

• Test 1: Insteon Hub Modem active

• Test 2: Internet Time Server reachable

• Test 3: Hub received a DHCP address from the router

• Test 4: Connected to Insteon Servers

• Test 5: Active remote connection to Insteon Servers

• Test 6: Successful remote connection to Insteon Servers at power-up

• Test 7: Successful connection to real-time messaging service

Edited April 17, 2022 by SScheitel