the plan for 5.6.0

[johnnyt]

Anyone know the plan for release of 5.6.0? It'll soon be 3 weeks since the release of 5.5.9.

While 5.5.9 seems to have fixed many of the bugs in previous 5.5 releases, I'm still reading about some issues and can't help but think waiting for 5.6 would be good my migration. At over 150 zwave nodes, close to 1000 programs, a day job, and a family, I'm looking to minimize the migration issues. But I'm also really looking forward to the promise of running IoP (since last spring, actually) as I have daily issues with my overloaded 994i. I'm weighing the devil I know (and have worked around) against the devil I don't.

Will it be days, weeks, or months before we see 5.6?

[lilyoyo1]

1 hour ago, johnnyt said:

Anyone know the plan for release of 5.6.0? It'll soon be 3 weeks since the release of 5.5.9.

While 5.5.9 seems to have fixed many of the bugs in previous 5.5 releases, I'm still reading about some issues and can't help but think waiting for 5.6 would be good my migration. At over 150 zwave nodes, close to 1000 programs, a day job, and a family, I'm looking to minimize the migration issues. But I'm also really looking forward to the promise of running IoP (since last spring, actually) as I have daily issues with my overloaded 994i. I'm weighing the devil I know (and have worked around) against the devil I don't.

Will it be days, weeks, or months before we see 5.6?

Regardless of time frame, new bugs may still be introduced. 

[MrBill]

34 minutes ago, lilyoyo1 said:

Regardless of time frame, new bugs may still be introduced. 

And I'll add that UD never discusses release time frames.  The organization is small, priorities can change rapidly to promise a release is virtually impossible.   

1 hour ago, johnnyt said:

5.6.0

We actually don't know that 5.6.0 will be the number of the next release.  While the version numbering system of UD Mobile seems to be incrementing the middle digit after the minor release reaches .9 that's not the way firmware versions have followed in the past... i.e. the next release may be 5.5.10

[vbPhil]

1 hour ago, MrBill said:

And I'll add that UD never discusses release time frames.  The organization is small, priorities can change rapidly to promise a release is virtually impossible.   

We actually don't know that 5.6.0 will be the number of the next release.  While the version numbering system of UD Mobile seems to be incrementing the middle digit after the minor release reaches .9 that's not the way firmware versions have followed in the past... i.e. the next release may be 5.5.10

I noticed that when you submit a support ticket, the drop-down list for firmware version on the form has been showing 5.6.0 for a while now. Could be for some other product, but I'm just saying.

[ShawnW]

I keep thinking that the last couple weeks of scanning the forums for reading material has proven quite boring - in other words, we must have reached a somewhat stable point, right? At the minimum relative to January & February for sure.

[lilyoyo1]

57 minutes ago, ShawnW said:

I keep thinking that the last couple weeks of scanning the forums for reading material has proven quite boring - in other words, we must have reached a somewhat stable point, right? At the minimum relative to January & February for sure.

Not necessarily....if most people upgraded during the initial release, they would have had their particular issues fixed so things would appear stable until those who held out initially start updating. Once those folks take the plunge, then we'll know. 

[DennisC]

6 hours ago, vbPhil said:

I noticed that when you submit a support ticket, the drop-down list for firmware version on the form has been showing 5.6.0 for a while now. Could be for some other product, but I'm just saying.

Except that was added when 5.5.9 was added. I think it was just a matter of convenience. 

 

 

[TRI0N]

1 hour ago, DennisC said:

Except that was added when 5.5.9 was added. I think it was just a matter of convenience. 

 

 

Don't think we even saw the 5.5.8 in public either. Went from 5.5.7 to 5.5.9 with some minor releases. At least I never saw a 5.5.8...

 

TRI0N

Edited March 25, 2023 by TRI0N

[larryllix]

Don't think we even saw the 5.5.8 in public either. Went from 5.5.7 to 5.5.9 with some minor releases. At least I never saw a 5.5.8...
 
TRI0N

Maybe it should be reported on a ticket about the support ticket.



Sent from my SM-G781W using Tapatalk

[johnnyt]

So UDI support is (of course) not saying when 5.6.0 will be out. While they mentioned that zwave and other bug fixes will be part of it, they're also working on adding new stuff and putting a push toward zwave certification. So my guess is it may not be out for a while. I mused about a 5.9.9.1 release to finish the list of bugs that interfere/delay with migration but that doesn't seem to be in the cards.

Bottom line is that anyone having or finding a bug now is out of luck for a fix until (maybe) all the other new stuff planned for 5.6.0 is ready to go, and possibly later as bugs deemed higher priority come in for the new stuff (that I don't need and can't use until I can migrate off my 994. )

With the 994i EOL date fast approaching, one can only hope there will be priority put on providing a relatively bug free version soon to support those looking for a smooth migration off the 994i so they can move on from it, not to mention consider adding the new stuff.

 

[Geddy]

@johnnyt I think 5.5.9 has been fairly stable for many people. I know there are a few nagging issues here and there, but it's night and day different than initial release versions for eisy.

I think somebody said it before or maybe in another post there are so many variables at play that there's probably no way to get "every bug" that might happen in a migration. Everybody's system is different. So while you might think they'll get most of what you have the likely hood of you having a device that somebody else hasn't migrated could be high and mean it would work for YOU. For my system, I was able to migrate fairly early on and have had a solid/stable system since mid-January. I've been able to work around some of the jitters in some updates because I had the time and ability to either live without or other reasons.

By holding out now you're just asking for a potential/possible bigger issue when you finally do migrate. Thinking that it will go smooth sailing and then something breaks and you're in a bind worse than you would be if you just did it now.

I'm not sure what the worry/concern is. Just take the plunge. It's great in the eisy pool!

Speculation does nobody good. Kind of foolish to even think/push/hope/wish that something is "just around the corner" that might make everything wonderful. Sure, the next big update might fix something that is broken for somebody right now, but it could easily break something else for others. That's the nature of the beast at the moment. It's been that way since ISY5.x when Z-Wave became a much more important system to support. The way I see it from a user side that there are endless Z-Wave manufacturers that for some reason or another do just enough to be "Z-Wave Certified", but probably not do everything that the IoX/Z-Matter system can control and would therefore "break" something in an existing system that would need to be fixed. It's just the nature of the beast. 

[johnnyt]

 

 

what about this one? 

 

and this one?

 

And this one.  

 

 

 

 

 

Edited April 3, 2023 by johnnyt

[johnnyt]

I ended sending prematurely there by accident, but maybe that was a sign to stop there.

If I keep looking, I'll find more.

Also, the whole time it takes for things to finish then to clean things up worries me. I have a ticket open asking how long I should expect it to take zwave devices to update (average and worst case). Yes I know it varies by device so just asked for average and worst case, e.g. timeout. Question was asked almost 2 weeks ago - still waiting for answer

Edited April 3, 2023 by johnnyt

[Geddy]

1 hour ago, johnnyt said:

Also, the whole time it takes for things to finish then to clean things up worries me. 

As I said, you can find issues. It worked for countless others. I think there was another post (maybe yours) worried about a dry run and the process to "roll back" to the ISY994. Nobody really knows if they'll have issues until they just do it. You've got to figure, forum posts of issues are like complaints for products. Only those with issues will post (some much more than others!). Those that can help will reply. Many that don't have issues go unreported and just work as expected. I'm sure there were others that didn't post here and went straight to a support ticket. 

But, for the most part things work well. It will NEVER be 100% perfect. And don't expect that it will. You've been a member of the forums since 2010. So I'm sure you probably went from an early device to ISY994. Was that easy swimming? (maybe it was, but it was no were near as complicated as the systems are now.) You didn't go from ISY994 to Polisy, was that easy? Not really, but got much better as time went along. I'd say even now (3+ years after release) that it might not be smooth sailing to go to a Polisy. But being afraid to make the move is personal prerogative. Stop asking/thinking/begging/wishing that there be some miracle release that solves EVERY SINGLE issue. It's already better than December 31. Will it be better July 31st? Maybe. But why not migrate now and then fix what doesn't work and allow UDI the chance to squash even more bugs - if you end up with issues on products that others haven't had products to test the migration. 

You're approaching this from too much of a cautionary tale approach. Others dove in head-first to lead the way for the rest of us to have a more pleasant experience. 

 

1 hour ago, johnnyt said:

I have a ticket open asking how long I should expect it to take zwave devices to update (average and worst case). Yes I know it varies by device so just asked for average and worst case, e.g. timeout. Question was asked almost 2 weeks ago - still waiting for answer

It's probably not something that can be answered easily. It's not like UDI has a log of everybody that updated and how long certain steps took. They'd only know for limited test sessions, and even then it might not be representative because they're TEST SYSTEMS. The best case would be to ask others here...maybe PM some that you quote above as having issues to get their "real world" experience. 

Migration isn't something you can do in 10 minutes. It might take all weekend. Depends on the size of your system and what you're doing during the process. 

If you've got a ticket open that long then reply back to it to get their attention again. It isn't typical, but with all the issues being tracked it's sure a question that doesn't really have a clear issue could have gone unanswered simply because they can't say for certain and don't want to answer with something and you have a vastly different experience and complain that they said "x minutes" and it took you "y minutes". 

Enjoy & good luck!

[johnnyt]

@Geddy

1. The ISY99/994 pre zwave era was GLORIOUS, with typically flawless firmware updates (I think I did every single beta release) and rock solid performance, at least for me. Moving to 994i was pretty simple too. Not saying there wasn't any work to do. But I don't recall it taking more than a few hours.

2. I am NOT expecting perfection. Stop saying that when you reply to my posts. I long ago gave up on expecting the near flawless performance and upgrades after I began using zwave. Seems UDI would have needed a small army to tackle that and clearly that wasn't in the cards. I did my best to support the effort by being one of the first to buy a Polisy. Did the same with zmatter board for Polisy in the Fall, then again recently by buying an eisy and zmatter USB.

3. I have >150 zwave nodes (~40 devices, I think) and over 140 custom notifications (one of the bugs I highlighted is related this), plus nearly 1000 programs - about half of those having a zwave device that may need manual updating. I know I WILL have work to do even if there were no bugs. The things is - as others have mentioned too - it's hard to know if a problem is a bug, a comms issue, missing device support, missing documentation, or a missed or misunderstood migration step (and there are certainly plenty of opportunities for this). A relatively bug free release would be hugely valuable before taking this on.

My main point was that with an apparent freeze on releases until there's enough new stuff in it, possibly followed by fixes to bugs in that new stuff, it kills some of the hope of seeing a bug getting fixed quickly when I run into one, which is statistically very likely given the size of my system. Maybe getting new sales is dependent on adding new stuff and I know new sales helps fund development - I did my part - but I am (I think understandably) a little disappointed that fixing the bugs that would make migration easier quickly isn't higher on the list.

 

[MrBill]

@johnnyt heh... you must be new around here...😀 ("here" meaning UD customer...) 

but apparently you're not... your forum profile indicates you joined August 13, 2010...

Everything happening with releases tho is pretty normal:

• When the masses are having trouble, where the release is pretty much unusable another update comes quickly...
• Otherwise releases, at least from the customers view, tend to move pretty slowly....
• bugs that don't effect literally everyone may exist for years (I can make a mile long list of things that "should be fixed", some of those issues/bugs have existed for many years)
• nobody knows the next release number until the release.
• likewise guessing when the next release will come is futile... and asking won't get an answer...

.... situation normal.

[Geddy]

2 hours ago, johnnyt said:

The ISY99/994 pre zwave era was GLORIOUS, with typically flawless firmware updates

Man...those were the days! When systems were simple and not overly complex!  As we all incorporate more devices and systems into a single controller that ability becomes infinitely more complex. At least I've got to assume so...just from a user standpoint. (And yes, that's all I am...a USER!) I joined the ISY community shortly before 5.x branch started being released. I only had Insteon devices at the time so I viewed 5.x mostly for the Z-Wave users and never upgraded until very late. But I can recall some really brutal 5.x "beta"/"test" build releases that would be updated almost overnight. Now we have Insteon and Z-wave for IoX and PG3/PG3x for over 100 different sytems all being incorporated into IoX. Good luck getting it right the first time!

3 hours ago, johnnyt said:

I am NOT expecting perfection. Stop saying that when you reply to my posts.

I'm only suggesting/saying that because you're implying it. You're begging for a release for something to make YOUR life easier. You're expecting perfection, or at least something better than you're inferring from other posts from people that have attempted to migrate before now. However, you're ignoring the fact that many of those issues have been fixed, or are in the process of being fixed (I would expect). You aren't even getting the posts from people that have migrated without issue, or easily resolved issues that they handled on their own and never posted to the forums. As I said, it's like making positive reviews online. It's always easier to complain than complement. It's always easier to post when you have an issue (so that you can get help!) than post just to say "went smooth as silk for me".

3 hours ago, johnnyt said:

A relatively bug free release would be hugely valuable before taking this on.

Those days are long gone. To expect such perfection (sorry..."bug free release") now would be a fallacy. As stated previously -- too many unknowns!

3 hours ago, johnnyt said:

My main point was that with an apparent freeze on releases until there's enough new stuff in it

You must be referring to information only YOU have. I don't recall seeing any posts here from UDI saying that there's no planned releases until something happens. UDI isn't known to forecast when releases will be made so assuming as much is far fetch for any user to assume something is "pending release". 

3 hours ago, johnnyt said:

it kills some of the hope of seeing a bug getting fixed quickly when I run into one, which is statistically very likely given the size of my system.

Again, by simply being active on the forums I've seen lots of posts of issues. I think if UDI makes a "major release" as you're implying possibly releasing "5.6.x" that any subsequent bugs that get reported will be fixed post-haste. Just like they ALWAYS have been. Most recently from January - February when there were incremental releases right away. Some within days. As the problems subsided so did the incremental releases. 

But yes, given the size of YOUR system I would expect there to be bumps, bugs, and issues. There's just too much involved to not expect something to not work. Your system has grown to the size it is now over a long period of time. It would be foolish to think such a major equipment and system migration would be something that you could knock out in a very short period of time. Heck, I even planned for several hours to allow me the time to completely rebuild my system if it became necessary at the time I migrated. Thankfully it didn't take anywhere near as long as that so I was super happy and excited to have made the change.

Here you are, saying you got a Polisy "early on", but you never fully migrated from the ISY994 to the Polisy. That might have given you at least a step forward by going to a similar product. And honestly, near identical since Polisy and eisy run the same IoX version and now can run the same PG3x versions (as of recent update anyway). We wouldn't even need this discussion if that were the case. 

 

3 hours ago, johnnyt said:

but I am (I think understandably) a little disappointed that fixing the bugs that would make migration easier quickly isn't higher on the list.

Again, you must have some information that isn't talked about on the forums as I've never experienced UDI to not have "fixing bugs" at the top of their list. If there are known "major" bugs that are keeping some from moving forward I would think that would indeed be at the top of the list. Does that mean that it would be rushed out in a release, maybe not. Maybe there is more that they want to add to a release and just haven't achieved that yet, but I can say from experience when major bugs have been encountered they are fixed very fast. 

Here's hoping for a release to meet your needs arrives soon! 🍺 

[lilyoyo1]

19 hours ago, johnnyt said:

So UDI support is (of course) not saying when 5.6.0 will be out. While they mentioned that zwave and other bug fixes will be part of it, they're also working on adding new stuff and putting a push toward zwave certification. So my guess is it may not be out for a while. I mused about a 5.9.9.1 release to finish the list of bugs that interfere/delay with migration but that doesn't seem to be in the cards.

Bottom line is that anyone having or finding a bug now is out of luck for a fix until (maybe) all the other new stuff planned for 5.6.0 is ready to go, and possibly later as bugs deemed higher priority come in for the new stuff (that I don't need and can't use until I can migrate off my 994. )

With the 994i EOL date fast approaching, one can only hope there will be priority put on providing a relatively bug free version soon to support those looking for a smooth migration off the 994i so they can move on from it, not to mention consider adding the new stuff.

 

I dont think there will ever be a perfect migration when it comes to zwave.....so many things are simply out of UDI's control. When you look at all of the migrations that have taken place, you're getting a snapshot of those who has had issues on the forums minus the ones who went direct to UDI for help. That means there were many who didnt. The nature of forums is to have a place to go for help so you will see all of the problems vs the those with smooth migrations. 

Reality is, there will always be bugs (the isy had them too). You can wait for the perceived perfect moment but due to your environment, device types, preparedness, etc. still have issues when others may not. Judging by UDI's history, the farther you are from upgrading, the more painful it will be as more and more features are added.