Home Router Replacement

[KSchex]

Wow!  It's like I opened a can of worms and they all popped out!

As I said before I want to replace my older rock solid Netgear WNDR4000 with some "today" technology.  The new unit doesn't need 12 antennas, beaming, etc.  It just needs 2.4Ghz & 5Ghz to perform well in a 2400 sq ft home that is located in a sea of other WIFIed homes.   What ever I select will need to function flawlessly for another 10 years as I am not one to constantly tweek my LAN nor do I need "away" access.   As for DHCP, yes I use it.  I also save specific address ranges and give some specific devices a specific address.  Some devices have a static IP.  It depends on the technical circumstance.  Not all devices and LANS are equal.

Once again, thank you all for your input.  I will update you as to what I go with.  

[Geddy]

18 minutes ago, KSchex said:

What ever I select will need to function flawlessly for another 10 years as I am not one to constantly tweek my LAN nor do I need "away" access.

Good luck with that! Nobody makes them like they used to. I've not had a (quality?) router last longer than 4 or 5 years without running into issues (mostly overheating or ISP service changes the router couldn't handle). Not to mention not getting firmware upgrades any more even when security holes are found/reported. 

Hope your research yields something that works for your need! 

[Bumbershoot]

3 hours ago, upstatemike said:

I would love if someone here could say that this problem has been resolved and Ubiquity works perfectly with Sonos now.

I wrestled with several Sonos installations on mesh networks, and one solution has worked every time -- add a Sonos Boost.  Otherwise, I understand that if one of your Sonos speakers has a wired network connection, it solves the problem, but I can't speak from experience.

[RPerrault]

boost is moving to the sonos proprietary network - it works though

i don't think sonos offers it any longer

 

 

looks like sonos does use multicasting - wireshark  shows lots of igmpv3 traffic

sonos has changed - i recall when its fanboiz were complaining that their sound bars would not support atmos and they had no plans to support it - their response was 'our products are for music - not tv audio'

wonder if the new speakers would work with boost - i have one - wish i could motivate myself to test with it

 

[upstatemike]

4 hours ago, lilyoyo1 said:

I haven't had those issues in my home. I have 4amps, 1 Arc, 1 beam, 1 sub, 1 sub mini, a three, five, 2-ones, and 2-100s. None have skipped a beat. The amps, soundbars, and 5 are all hardwired while the rest are wireless. Whether separately or together, I've been able to use them together in groups without issue. 

Maybe my router is the root cause (or route cause) of my problems rather than Sonos. More reason for me to follow this thread with interest.

[RPerrault]

looks like stp is used by 'bridges' - here - switches

how many switches and how is sonos attached?

maybe we can lure a network nerd into helping us

are the speakers dropping or just have jitter?

glancing at a wireshark - i see lots of igmp traffic with sonos (which makes sense to me)

multicasting can be 'broke' - had to work on a fetal monitor system from ge once - the network nerds could not fix it 

so nerds - is stp invoked in response to an arp or what?

 

[larryllix]

34 minutes ago, upstatemike said:

Maybe my router is the root cause (or route cause) of my problems rather than Sonos. More reason for me to follow this thread with interest.

Router problems can get very complex and hard to diagnose. Out out four ASUS, top of the line model routers, I had one replaced under warranty, one got garbaged eventually for bad memory design ASUS fixed, in a later revision, and  two that got sold to somebody else along with their weird disconnection problems between devices and the WAN without any clues. Of course, there was always the mesh transfer problems with devices, but that was the fault of many device problems.

The first router drove me nuts for about 3 years and then I got a newer version to prove it was the router. But it came with it's own set of problems which I duplicated with a second copy, that drove me crazy in a mesh setup. Switching them for troubleshooting techniques the problems continued with both of them. Some of this resulted in some bad feelings with other users in the house.

[kzboray]

As @elvisimprsntr said early on in this tread. pfsense and an AP are pretty much your best bet for optimal performance without headaches. There is a learning curve to using pfsense, but plenty of help on the forums and a basic setup isn't much more difficult than an out of the box name brand router.

[upstatemike]

I don't want to hijack this thread down a Sonos rabbit hole. I was just suggesting that it is an example of something that you would want to be sure a new router can handle well (if it applies to you) since it is a common device in Home Automation environments.

[Bumbershoot]

4 hours ago, RPerrault said:

i don't think sonos offers it any longer

They do, although it's in the "Last Chance" area of their website.  $99 USD.

[upstatemike]

Getting off Sonos, another Home Automation router issue I have seen is in trying to group a bunch of Amazon Echos for synchronized music. Even when they are all logged into the same SSID on an untagged LAN they will often refuse to link units connected to different APs with a "players must be on the same network" type of error. So what combination of router and APs or mesh system will avoid that?

Edited June 22, 2023 by upstatemike
spelling

[RPerrault]

first guess

one with a wifi controller that is properly configured 

[larryllix]

3 hours ago, upstatemike said:

Getting off Sonos, another Home Automation router issue I have seen is in trying to group a bunch of Amazon Echos for synchronized music. Even when they are all logged into the same SSID on an untagged LAN they will often refuse to link units connected to different APs with a "players must be on the same network" type of error. So what combination of router and APs or mesh system will avoid that?

A single router with all automatic switching features disabled.

[upstatemike]

2 hours ago, larryllix said:

A single router with all automatic switching features disabled.

...cannot handle enough simultaneous connections.

[JTsao]

6 hours ago, upstatemike said:

... what combination of router and APs or mesh system will avoid that?

A Ubiquiti UDM-Pro router with 2 access points shows up as a single SSID and works fine in my case with HEOS (Denon alternative to Sonos) and multiple Wifi and wired video locations all in one unmanaged LAN - but I keep all my smarthome/IoT traffic on 2.4G (2 channels) and all streaming on 5G (2 channels).

[lilyoyo1]

7 hours ago, upstatemike said:

So what combination of router and APs or mesh system will avoid that?

Like I mentioned earlier- Ubiquiti. I have zero issues with my system. I have 6 access points, UDM pro, and ubiquiti switch. Most static devices such as tvs, amps, fire cubes, etc. are hardwired. 

Edited June 22, 2023 by lilyoyo1

[upstatemike]

1 hour ago, lilyoyo1 said:

Like I mentioned earlier- Ubiquiti. I have zero issues with my system. I have 6 access points, UDM pro, and ubiquiti switch. Most static devices such as tvs, amps, fire cubes, etc. are hardwired. 

So for example the OP and I might consider a USG-PRO-4 router, etc-24-POE Gene 2 switch, and some number of UAP-AC-PRO access points. Would that match what you are doing?

[lilyoyo1]

4 minutes ago, upstatemike said:

So for example the OP and I might consider a USG-PRO-4 router, etc-24-POE Gene 2 switch, and some number of UAP-AC-PRO access points. Would that match what you are doing?

It does except for the USGP. I have the UDM. In our old place my setup was similar though I have newer gen equipment in our new one. Either way, Ive never experienced any types of issues due to the Ubiquiti equipment.

Why are you choosing the USGP instead of the UDMP and the ACP over the U6P

[brians]

At home I have a Netgate SG5100 router running pfSense. I use Unifi equipment for WiFi, three access points, and around 8 UniFi switches I think. UNVR and 13 cameras. Nothing is 100% reliable, and I have had issues with many different types of network hardware and software.

A recent example, all of my ESPHome devices go offline, but they were actually still working. Troubleshooting led me to discover the reason was mDNS was not working across WiFi... turns out the Access Points were not transmitting mDNS so I could not access a device via hostname eg. nspanel01.local. Rebooting all the access points resolved.

[brians]

1 hour ago, lilyoyo1 said:

It does except for the USGP. I have the UDM. In our old place my setup was similar though I have newer gen equipment in our new one. Either way, Ive never experienced any types of issues due to the Ubiquiti equipment.

Why are you choosing the USGP instead of the UDMP and the ACP over the U6P

Yes I agree, but get the Unifi Dream Machine Pro SE instead of regular UDMP, and start with one Unifi AP 6 Pro or  6 LR, or even a U6 Mesh (the little tube ones) - the UDMP SE has PoE+ ports on so can run those aforementioned UniFi access point without any extra equipment.

 

 

[upstatemike]

3 hours ago, lilyoyo1 said:

It does except for the USGP. I have the UDM. In our old place my setup was similar though I have newer gen equipment in our new one. Either way, Ive never experienced any types of issues due to the Ubiquiti equipment.

Why are you choosing the USGP instead of the UDMP and the ACP over the U6P

First thing I came across on Amazon. I should look at the Ubiquity website for current product info. Also not sure where to buy that is authorized so the warranty will be honored.

The OP can probably scale down to a smaller gateway and single AP to meet his needs but UniFi should work for him as well.

[upstatemike]

2 hours ago, brians said:

At home I have a Netgate SG5100 router running pfSense. I use Unifi equipment for WiFi, three access points, and around 8 UniFi switches I think. UNVR and 13 cameras. Nothing is 100% reliable, and I have had issues with many different types of network hardware and software.

A recent example, all of my ESPHome devices go offline, but they were actually still working. Troubleshooting led me to discover the reason was mDNS was not working across WiFi... turns out the Access Points were not transmitting mDNS so I could not access a device via hostname eg. nspanel01.local. Rebooting all the access points resolved.

ESPHome is a pretty important thing to have fail if you use Home Assistant. Was this a one time issue or does it come back every once in awhile?

[lilyoyo1]

3 minutes ago, upstatemike said:

First thing I came across on Amazon. I should look at the Ubiquity website for current product info. Also not sure where to buy that is authorized so the warranty will be honored.

The OP can probably scale down to a smaller gateway and single AP to meet his needs but UniFi should work for him as well.

You can buy direct from ubiquiti. I agree with what Brians said above about the SE over the pro but for different reasons. I chose the SE because it has a 2.5GbE WAN port whereas the pro only has a 1GbE. POE didnt matter as much to me since Id have the switch too. While I don't have those speeds from my provider yet, I figured it would future proof me for when it actually happens.

[upstatemike]

37 minutes ago, lilyoyo1 said:

You can buy direct from ubiquiti. I agree with what Brians said above about the SE over the pro but for different reasons. I chose the SE because it has a 2.5GbE WAN port whereas the pro only has a 1GbE. POE didnt matter as much to me since Id have the switch too. While I don't have those speeds from my provider yet, I figured it would future proof me for when it actually happens.

The Dream Router looks like it might cover the OP's requirements?

Edited June 23, 2023 by upstatemike

[brians]

2 hours ago, upstatemike said:

ESPHome is a pretty important thing to have fail if you use Home Assistant. Was this a one time issue or does it come back every once in awhile?

HA still talked to the entities but I think over time if the IP changed would have been an issue. I have only has this happen the one time and not sure why it happened.