MarcusD Posted July 9, 2023 Posted July 9, 2023 Hi, I have been using ISY/PLM with many (40+?) Insteon devices and has been running relatively smoothly for >10 y. My PLM recently stopped working (safe mode, tried the listed fixes which fixed things for a few hours, then back to safe mode). I purchased a new serial PLM and just went through the steps to replace the PLM. I am having many communication errors. I've looked at the threads of others who posted similar issues and have gone through the recommended steps with minimal success. A few specific questions: 1. The old PLM #2413S says PowerLinc Serial (Dual Band). The replacement serial PLM (same number) does not say dual band. Is it in fact the same? 2. The sequence I used to swap out the PLM: I removed old PLM. Unplugged ISY. Plugged in new PLM. Waited. I attached ethernet cable directly to ISY (not using the supplied serial cable). Plugged in ISY. I did not delete old modem (the warnings scared me off), and the new modem seemed to set off an adoption sequence in the iOX java app. Was it a mistake not to first delete the old PLM? 3. After the initial (automatic) adoption process completed. I restored the ISY from a backup that pre-dated the PLM failure. Each step seemed to invoke some rewriting and multiple popups indicating communication issues with about 10 devices. Would take 5 minutes plus to complete that process each time. I then selected restore devices. No real change. Some things work, many devices still say communication error. 4. I thought that the next step would be to remove the devices with communication error and re-link them. Will be a lot of work, as they are also in a lot of scenes and programs. Is this the next step? 5. I noticed that firmware is a few years old. Would updating help? 6. I did also get an odd network configuration mismatch error (graphic below)--does this provide any clue as the problem? (I accepted the replacement). 7. I tried writing updates to individual devices (right click). Sometimes it converted the green IOII icon to the normal 6 panel icon, sometimes it does nothing, and when I try to turn the device on, it changes the icon to the red explanation point and I get a communication error. At this point, I don't really know the best way to proceed. Any help would be greatly appreciated.
Techman Posted July 9, 2023 Posted July 9, 2023 (edited) The correct procedure to replace the PLM is: Remove power from the ISY Remove power from the PLM Remove the cable from the old PLM and plug it into the new PLM (yes all PLMs are now dual band) Plug the new PLM into the power outlet Wait about 15 seconds then power up the ISY After the ISY reboots, click on restore Modem If you have any battery operated devices, then after the restore modem completes, you'll have to put the battery devices into the linking mode, and then do a restore device.. After you complete the above and all is working properly, you should update to the latest firmware, 5.3.4. Be sure to carefully read the release notes before updating. Edited July 9, 2023 by Techman 1
MarcusD Posted July 15, 2023 Author Posted July 15, 2023 Thanks for the response. Yes--I followed all of those steps. Still has trouble linking to a few (non-battery) switches as well as intermittently reporting loss of connection to the thermostat. I'll delete and re-link and hopefully that will fix those. One other question about the firmware update--after clearing java cache, the iOX launcher is also deleted. When I got into the admin window using the local IP in a browser, I downloaded the admin console. This created a shortcut to an ISY 994 admin console instead of an iOX launcher. Not sure if there's any difference (it does open the java console, seemingly the same as the prior shortcut that was called iOX launcher). But I also saw that yesterday there was an updated iOX launcher, but I did not see download instructions. Is there a different process to download that?
Techman Posted July 15, 2023 Posted July 15, 2023 (edited) @MarcusD Delete the shortcut and then download the IoX Launcher from the link below. This will place the IoX Launcher on your desktop. https://isy.universal-devices.com/start.jnlp The devices that have the Green 1011 means that there are pending writes to that device. Right click on the device then click on Write Updates Edited July 15, 2023 by Techman
MrBill Posted July 15, 2023 Posted July 15, 2023 37 minutes ago, MarcusD said: This created a shortcut to an ISY 994 admin console instead of an iOX launcher. The version called IoX Launcher installed on the desktop but start.jnlp downloads the correct admin console each time the admin console is opened. In Finder you're allowed to choose between "Lan" and "Cloud". Lan obtains the admin.jnlp file from the ISY and opens it. Cloud obtains the file from UD's cloud storage. The idea behind launcher is that it should always launch the correct version of the admin console to match the firmware of the ISY. If the ISY is a 994 then picking "cloud" will be faster, due to the 994 being slow at encrypting for TLS, the cloud will be much faster. This less of a concern for Polisy and eisy as they have much faster processors with more horsepower than is being used. Using admin.jnlp instead is fine, just rember to delete it, clear the java cache and re-download it with each firmware upgrade.
MarcusD Posted July 16, 2023 Author Posted July 16, 2023 Thanks again for the help. I downloaded the iOX launcher and selected cloud rather than LAN. That works fine. Wondering about the Green 1011. I have many of my devices that indicate they are pending writes. I guess I have to do each individually? The behavior seems odd: For one switch, when I right click and select write updates to device, the system is "busy" and the percent counter goes up but then the process ends (sometimes around 25%) and the 1011 is unchanged. Tried that switch again, same thing. Tried another switch, and it made it to 100% (took about 30s) but then it repeated that process three times. At the completion of the third time, the icon changed so it seemed (surprisingly) successful. Another switch made it to 100%, the process immediately started again and it the process stopped midway leaving the 1011 unchanged. Anything I should be doing differently?
Techman Posted July 16, 2023 Posted July 16, 2023 Reboot your eisy. If that doesn't resolve your issue then do a factory reset on one of the devices you're having issues with and then do a restore device. If that works then apply that to your other devices that won't update. It's also possible that you have noise on the powerline which is creating a communication issue between the PLM and your devices. 1
MrBill Posted July 16, 2023 Posted July 16, 2023 If rebooting the ISY doesn't work. Next open the Event Viewer, set level 3... clear the window then attempt to restore a node. The event viewer and/or the error log may give clues to what's going on.
MarcusD Posted July 16, 2023 Author Posted July 16, 2023 I'm wondering if something got corrupted or if the PLM is not working correctly. Seems like similar issue to attached thread. Prior to the other PLM malfunctioning, I did not have issues with noise in the powerline--all seemed to work well. Now, it seems that every step, whether it is deleting a device, trying to link a device, etc takes a long time as the system goes through initializing, writing, re-writing. Seems that the system busy popup comes on with any step, and seems to be taking longer to complete. Crazy amount of time to troubleshoot this. To test whether it would work, I deleted 2 switches and factory reset them, and tried to re-link. As soon as I select link devices, it starts the linking in progress popup and another linking popup (in the past I recall it waiting to find devices that I put into linking mode before starting any other process). And this process takes many minutes to complete without it ever finding the switches, with it repeating the re-writing process several times. Starting to lose hope here.... Perhaps I should reset ISY and restore PLM from a much older backup? And if so, what steps should I take take to do all of this? I restored PLM once--no option to use older backup--should I first delete the PLM? And better to keep working on the cloud version vs the LAN? xhttps://forum.universal-devices.com/topic/41014-replaced-plm-modem-now-my-insteon-devices-flash-red-after-local-changes/
MarcusD Posted July 20, 2023 Author Posted July 20, 2023 Thanks Mr. Bill. I saved two event viewer (level 3) log files: the first is after simply trying to write updates to a device (green ioii). The second is selecting Restore that same device. Please let me know if this provides you with any clues. ISY-Events-Log.v5.3.4__Wed 2023.07.19 07.41.08 PM.txt ISY-Events-Log.v5.3.4__Wed 2023.07.19 08.01.22 PM.txt
MarcusD Posted July 22, 2023 Author Posted July 22, 2023 I’m not sure how to interpret the event log to figure out what the issue is restoring many devices after replacing the PLM. Any help would be greatly appreciated.
MrBill Posted July 23, 2023 Posted July 23, 2023 I wonder if @kclenden might get an email from this mention and hopefully log in. He’s the best at reading and interpreting logs and link issues of anyone that’s ever participated here. 1
MarcusD Posted July 24, 2023 Author Posted July 24, 2023 Yes—tried restoring modem and restore devices at least twice now.
MarcusD Posted July 30, 2023 Author Posted July 30, 2023 Also noticed many of my programs were not running. When I looked at them, they all said "not saved". I went into one of them and selected Save and they all now look like they're saved. Strange behavior.... Still can't link with several devices. I may try a factory rest of the PLM and try again. But not optimistic... Does insteon provide any technical support for this as I just purchased the PLM? Anyone else understand how to read the event logs?
Techman Posted July 30, 2023 Posted July 30, 2023 Take a look at this link regarding your linking issues https://wiki.universal-devices.com/index.php?title=INSTEON:_Troubleshooting_Communications_Errors
MarcusD Posted July 31, 2023 Author Posted July 31, 2023 Thanks. I saw this. Short of adding filters, all is as it is supposed to be. What is perplexing is that prior to changing the PLM, I did not have any of these issues. Are these new PLMs more sensitive? Not sure why the new PLM would have trouble with interference when the prior one did not.
Techman Posted July 31, 2023 Posted July 31, 2023 The newer PLMs are basically the same as the older models, some improvements in the serial interface and better quality components. Is the PLM plugged directly into an outlet and not a power strip? When you changed PLMs, did you follow the PLM replacement procedure? 1
Brian H Posted July 31, 2023 Posted July 31, 2023 Was the older PLM a 2413S and the replacement a new 2413S? If the old one was a 2412S then it was power line only and slower link memory. Along with also powering the ISY994i
IndyMike Posted July 31, 2023 Posted July 31, 2023 (edited) Hello Marcus, You posted two logs above. The first was from a "write changes to device attempt" [40 5E 46 1 ] Link 0 : 0FF8 [A2007016CEFF1F01] Writing [A2007016CEFF1F01] [INST-TX-I2 ] 02 62 40 5E 46 1F 2F 00 00 02 0F FF 08 A2 00 70 16 CE FF 1F 01 A4 [INST-ACK ] 02 62 40.5E.46 1F 2F 00 00 02 0F FF 08 A2 00 70 16 CE FF 1F 01 A4 06 (00) [INST-SRX ] 02 50 40.5E.46 70.16.CE A7 2F FF (FF) The device that you are trying to update (40.5E.46) is apparently an I2CS device. This device requires that it be linked BEFORE it will respond to communications. It is responding to write request with a NAK and indicating that your PLM is NOT linked to it. This device is still linked to your old PLM. The second log you provided is a "restore" session to the device. Here the PLM correctly identified and linked itself to the device. This session appears to have completed correctly. Does that device now operate properly? My guess is that you have a mix of I2 and I2CS devices. The I2 devices May operate correctly if you simply try to "write updates". The I2CS devices will not. You will need to Restore these devices so that the PLM link record is properly written to them. I am not sure how you got to this place. If you performed a "Restore Modem" the address of your new PLM should have been written to all of the devices. It is possible that errors occurred during the update, leaving devices with the "1011". For I2CS devices, you apparently need to perform a "device restore". Here are the developer notes discussing the I2CS protocol: https://cache.insteon.com/developer/i2CSdev-022012-en.pdf Edited July 31, 2023 by IndyMike Added I2CS Link 5
MarcusD Posted August 1, 2023 Author Posted August 1, 2023 Thanks IndyMike. I’m not sure how I got to this place either! Hoping to get out of this place! Techman—I followed all the steps. But I never deleted the old PLM —I saw conflicting info about whether that step is required. Q: Since some devices are returning the address of the old PLM, would deleting that help (and then factory reset PLM and restore PLM and devices again)? And yes, set up hasn’t changed (and same PLM model). Direct into outlet, etc. the only thing I recently added was a ubiquiti cloud key hard drive (different outlet, but same equipment closet and plugged into same router as the PLM). I’ll try moving that to a different location—perhaps this is introducing some noise?
Techman Posted August 1, 2023 Posted August 1, 2023 @MarcusD Don't use delete PLM. Have you followed the attached procedure? Replace Modem.pdf
MrBill Posted August 1, 2023 Posted August 1, 2023 @MarcusD I'd try "Restore Device" individually on every single node. It's a pain and depending on the size of your system and number of scenes may take awhile. You can try intially on the devices you know have issues to prove that it's the solution. Then do them one at a time. The issue: Every device knows the Device ID of the PLM, and it likely effects many links in each device. When "Restore Modem" is selected after a PLM change occurs, the function checks the known value of the PLM (the BEFORE value) and compares that to the device ID of the currently connected PLM (the AFTER value). If those are the same Restore modem simply loads the links that ISY thinks should be in the modem back to the modem. On the other hand, when BEFORE and AFTER are different addresses, then Restore Modem first Updates the entire Link database for both PLM and Devices, replacing the BEFORE value with the AFTER value where ever needed. Then it writes all updated records to BOTH the PLM and all devices in the house. In this mode it can take a very long time. So long that in larger systems if your not expecting all the work the ISY must do that you might interrupt it saying this busy bar shouldn't be here... it's stuck. It's not stuck, in larger systems it could take hours. Add to that normal traffic on the Insteon network that creates collisions and errors. Problem being that once the address change run has been executed BEFORE and AFTER are now the same.... so the function will only run in the more simple mode. I think that some people have had success using yet another new PLM to change BEFORE and AFTER again. Better tho I think is just sitting at the admin console and doing "Restore Device" from the top of the device tree to the bottom. This ensures fresh links everywhere and minimizes the chance that normal life (a family member flipping a switch that initiates Insteon traffic) being collisons that cause errors. Doing one device at a time lets the network settle for at least 10-15 seconds while you're moving to the next device. 2
Brian H Posted August 1, 2023 Posted August 1, 2023 If you have any of the older power line only modules. They are I1 and it takes eight power line messages and acknowledgments to change one eight bit address in a module. The hard drives power supply could effect power line communications. I have a LED TV that has a large AC rated capacitor across the power line to eliminate its internal power supply noise from the line. Works well but also sucks up a large part of signals on the line as noise. X10 (frequencies are close with Insteon) XPPF filter on the TV. Also have a Filterlinc on my UPS and another one entertainment system. 1
MarcusD Posted August 2, 2023 Author Posted August 2, 2023 Thanks everyone for input/info/help. i have followed the PLM replacement instructions. I do have a few older switches in the system. And I have tried to *patiently* restore individual devices in the admin console with only rare success. I will try again from the beginning. Will wait until I have 1/2 day with no one else home to reduce chance of someone changing a switch status. I will disconnect ubiquiti hard drive during the process. a few more questions: 1. I can’t imagine how, but could there be any issue with MobiLincX somehow interfering with proper new addressing of PLM? 2. Should I first delete PLM from ISY and factory reset PLM? 3. does it make any difference if I work in admin console in LAN vs Cloud? 4. Should I continue to have the event viewer writing files, or change that setting (currently still set at level 3)?
Recommended Posts