JoePVW Posted July 11, 2023 Posted July 11, 2023 Hello I’m new to universal devices. I set up a Insteon program to turn on 2 lamp lincs when motion is detected. That works fine. I set an off command but it’s not turning them off. Could somebody post a screenshot on how to set it up. Thanks!
lilyoyo1 Posted July 11, 2023 Posted July 11, 2023 6 minutes ago, JoePVW said: Hello I’m new to universal devices. I set up a Insteon program to turn on 2 lamp lincs when motion is detected. That works fine. I set an off command but it’s not turning them off. Could somebody post a screenshot on how to set it up. Thanks! Post your program and we'll help you fix it.
JoePVW Posted July 11, 2023 Author Posted July 11, 2023 Thank you. I will do that this evening after work.
lilyoyo1 Posted July 11, 2023 Posted July 11, 2023 1 minute ago, JoePVW said: Thank you. I will do that this evening after work. The ISY Cookbook is also a great resource for learning how to program. Programming starts around page 160
MrBill Posted July 11, 2023 Posted July 11, 2023 Also tell us what kind of motion, I assume insteon battery powered.... But i typed a long answer to someone once and it turned out there next post was "except it's a ____ motion and none of that makes sense." typical simple motion/light program is something like: IF Motion is switched on (hint: use CONTROL in the dropdown, not STATUS) then Set 'light' on wait 5 minutes set 'light' off else (nothing) if the motion is re-triggered during the wait, the wait will be restarted. But there are many variations based on how you actually want the automation work. 1
JoePVW Posted July 11, 2023 Author Posted July 11, 2023 (edited) Thank you! Insteon motion sensor 2 hard wired. Edited July 11, 2023 by JoePVW
MrBill Posted July 11, 2023 Posted July 11, 2023 Insteon motion sensor hardwired i believe re-triggers more quickly. Which means you can use shorter wait windows if you like... wait is essentially wait until X minutes after last motion. Battery motions however retrigger on an infrequent interval to preserve battery.
JoePVW Posted July 12, 2023 Author Posted July 12, 2023 Thanks I will try setting up shortly! Appreciate the help!
JoePVW Posted July 12, 2023 Author Posted July 12, 2023 Here is the updated Motion I'm trying to control the lights with. Turns them on but not off.
larryllix Posted July 12, 2023 Posted July 12, 2023 (edited) Looks good to me but you can right click on the program name in the tree and select copy to clipboard. Then paste it into your post. Much easier to read with a HD screen. Do you have any of these devices linked to your PLM via Insteon links? If your MS times out it could turn the devices off in error. Is you MS set to fast time cycles? It could be continuously re-triggering your program to start over. Edited July 12, 2023 by larryllix 2
JoePVW Posted July 12, 2023 Author Posted July 12, 2023 Thanks for the reply! Not sure. I’m brand new to this. I linked the 2 lamp modules and motion sensors directly thru the linking of plm.
oberkc Posted July 12, 2023 Posted July 12, 2023 I suspect the problem is that when the motion sensor turns off, it triggers your program and runs the ELSE path. Unfortunately, it likely does so while the program is in the WAIT state, interrupting the program, and the 30 minutes never gets to pass. Make sure your motion sensor is configured only to send ON commands. 1 1
larryllix Posted July 12, 2023 Posted July 12, 2023 (edited) 11 hours ago, JoePVW said: Thanks for the reply! Not sure. I’m brand new to this. I linked the 2 lamp modules and motion sensors directly thru the linking of plm. Then as per @oberkcpost above. The MS II has some design bugs in it. If you have the MS and lights linked directly, then you will want the timeout on the MS quite short (say 30 seconds?) and no Off signals sent from it (On only). This tries to avoid the Off lockout for the same length of time. As long as the MS II keeps seeing motion and never times out while in the OFF state, it will never reset to send another ON signal. Hopefully the new Insteon manufacturer can see the light on this one and fix this before producing them again. Without at least one working sensor, Insteon is not home automation anymore. It is only remote control and timers, like Alexa or GH boxes, but without a voice input or output. Edited July 12, 2023 by larryllix 1
MrBill Posted July 12, 2023 Posted July 12, 2023 In the screen shot above we can tell the program is still running: the Solid Green folder says the wait hasn't timed out yet at that point. Remember if the motion is re-tripped the time starts over. I say keep your program as is for test purposes, but shorten the wait down to say 30 seconds... then watch for the folder to time out and see if the lights go off. 1
apostolakisl Posted July 12, 2023 Posted July 12, 2023 Walk into the room and trigger the MS and see the lights turn on. Then leave the room and watch the program. It should be solid green. After 30 minutes it should turn to half green. If it turns to half red instead at some point, then you have your answer. The program is re-triggering "false" before 30 minutes is up. This kills the program as it is running and restarts it which runs the else clause (which is blank). The solution is to stop the re-triggering and this would involve changing the settings on the MS. If the program ends up completing and the icon turns half green, but the lights don't turn off, then you have a com issue. The reason for this would be a "noisy" light. In other words, the light is blocking the insteon signal because it is creating interference. The solution is to use a different light bulb or transformer if it is low voltage or put a filter on it. This problem used to be very common before dual band Insteon devices but can still happen. You can also test for this by turning the light on and off from the admin console. If it turns off fine, from the admin console, then you don't have a noisy light. 3
MrBill Posted July 12, 2023 Posted July 12, 2023 25 minutes ago, apostolakisl said: This kills the program as it is running and restarts it which runs the else clause (which is blank). Is this still true with 'Motion' is switched on, (i.e Control rather than Status)? This was exactly why I wrote the simple example with Control as opposed to status, which it looks like from the screenshot he did use Control. I supposed i should have supplied an 'AND motion status is off' to save Insteon traffic, but i suppose that would also allow this program to run false, not sure what it should do then. My current wonder tho is if OP has the Motion in a Scene as well as using this program. I don't use Insteon motions so I'm unsure of the settings but I believe some users do Scene On and Program Off for faster turn on when reacting to motion. 3
oberkc Posted July 12, 2023 Posted July 12, 2023 1 hour ago, MrBill said: Is this still true with 'Motion' is switched on, (i.e Control rather than Status)? This was exactly why I wrote the simple example with Control as opposed to status, which it looks like from the screenshot he did use Contro Upon further review, I think your point is correct. “Control on” would not trigger the program from the reciept of an OFF command. 2
larryllix Posted July 14, 2023 Posted July 14, 2023 (edited) On 7/12/2023 at 5:37 PM, MrBill said: <snippage> My current wonder tho is if OP has the Motion in a Scene as well as using this program. I don't use Insteon motions so I'm unsure of the settings but I believe some users do Scene On and Program Off for faster turn on when reacting to motion. This is the method I use but the MS II has a problem with the send OFF enabled. If you set the MS timeout shorter than the program Wait time, the MS OFF signal will interfere with the program timeout. If you set the MS timeout longer than the program Wait time, the MS will not reset to send another ON signal in time to reset the program WAIT time. The MS must have the OFF signal disabled and the timeout must be less than half the program Wait time to properly extend the program ON/True timer. If the MS ever times out internally, and it keeps seeing motion, it will never send another ON signal. The MS II needs a second internal timer, not use the same timer for both ON and OFF delays. Edited July 14, 2023 by larryllix
apostolakisl Posted July 15, 2023 Posted July 15, 2023 On 7/12/2023 at 4:37 PM, MrBill said: Is this still true with 'Motion' is switched on, (i.e Control rather than Status)? This was exactly why I wrote the simple example with Control as opposed to status, which it looks like from the screenshot he did use Control. I supposed i should have supplied an 'AND motion status is off' to save Insteon traffic, but i suppose that would also allow this program to run false, not sure what it should do then. My current wonder tho is if OP has the Motion in a Scene as well as using this program. I don't use Insteon motions so I'm unsure of the settings but I believe some users do Scene On and Program Off for faster turn on when reacting to motion. I would expect "control" to work fine as the program is written. But the MS I have heard have some funny things. I have two of them but have them directly linked to the lights and use the time out from the MS. Basically, all default settings and used ISY to just link to the light switch, no programs. Work great for a pantry and laundry room where you are carrying things in and out and don't have free hands. And as long as you move around at least a little bit, the light stays on. But back to the OP, if he follows the status of the program in the admin console to completion, he will at least know where things are going wrong. 1
Andy P Posted July 25, 2023 Posted July 25, 2023 (edited) I used to directly link the MS to the lights as well, but wanted a way to override the motion if I used the switch. So I have a program that sets the dim level to 59% if turned on by motion. The default brightness of the manual switch scene is 50%. And opening the door also triggers the light to 59% similar to motion. Adjusting the brightness to anything other than 59% also disables the motion off. Mud or Hall Motion - [ID 0011][Parent 0010] If ( 'Motion Mudroom.1 Motion' is switched On Or 'Motion Hallway.1 Motion' is switched On ) And 'Main Hallway' Status is Off Then Set 'Main Hallway' On 59% Set 'Main Hallway Remote' On 59% Hallway Motion End - [ID 0033][Parent 0010] If 'Motion Hallway.1 Motion' is switched Off And 'Motion Mudroom.1 Motion' Status is Off And 'Main Hallway' Status is 59% Then Set 'Main Hallway' Off Set 'Main Hallway Remote' Off Mudroom Motion End - [ID 0013][Parent 0010] If 'Motion Mudroom.1 Motion' is switched Off And 'Motion Hallway.1 Motion' Status is Off And 'Main Hallway' Status is 59% Then Set 'Main Hallway' Off Set 'Main Hallway Remote' Off Side Door Opens - [ID 0046][Parent 0010] If 'Breezeway Door' is switched On And 'Main Hallway' Status is Off Then Set 'Main Hallway' On 59% Set 'Main Hallway Remote' On 59% Andy Edited July 25, 2023 by Andy P 1
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