At a Crossroads with UD

[intellihome]

Well, my trusty ISY994 is still running strong but it's time to renew my ISYPortal license ($44 for one year) for a discontinued unsupported device. This was my third ISY over the years. I am now faced with buying yet another device (eisy at $290) to continue operating my outdated Insteon devices (about 40 devices). As the Insteon devices fail, I've replaced them with all sorts of reliable Alexa compatible devices (YoLink, Kasa, TP Link etc). 

Is eisy worth the upgrade? The links to upgrade to eisy are outdated with old sale information that's been expired for some time. Do I just phase out Insteon and UD? I don't have Z-Wave, Zigbee or anything else that eisy will control. Why not just use the free Alexa app to control all things that are Alexa compatible? I'm hoping somebody can talk me off the cliff from ending my time with my beloved ISY and amazing support from UD and this great forum. 

 

[Geddy]

@intellihome as with all technology it does tend to go "out of date". The reason UD raised their prices were made clear in a recent email and news blast on their site about the increased costs to keep the hardware working for the older (now unsupported) ISY994 devices. Depending on your needs to maintain a portal subscription it's possible you wouldn't need to renew the portal and could just use the ISY994 as you have it for the remaining Insteon devices. You will give up the connectivity that the portal provides, but depends on your use and dependency on that service to figure out if the cost for renewal with current hardware is worth it to you.

19 minutes ago, intellihome said:

The links to upgrade to eisy are outdated with old sale information that's been expired for some time

Not sure what links your referencing, but the most current deals can always be found directly on the UD site - https://www.universal-devices.com/

Currently they are having a "Black Friday" sale that was recently out in email saving off the list price you mentioned. 

20 minutes ago, intellihome said:

Is eisy worth the upgrade?

Again, it's all relative to your use. At first I wasn't so keen on the idea of upgrading my system, but at the time it was simply 40-50 Insteon devices. Since the ISY994 had always been my "smart home" controller and I didn't have a Z-Wave board in my ISY994 then all I using was Insteon. When the eisy became available I did update to that device and have been happy. I then branched out and, like you, added a few extra devices here and there. Being able to control the other devices I've added through the plugins has really evolved my appreciation to the simple automations I have setup. You mention that you have YoLink and Kasa devices. Well there are plugins for both those brands that would expand their use with your Insteon devices through the eisy. That's the power of the eisy that you can expand the system beyond "just" Insteon, Zigbee, or Z-Wave. Through the plugins there are lots of options to incorporate into your automation system!

It's a small learning curve to incorporate the polyglot function into the system, but it's fairly simple if you just take time to read and learn the process. The cool part is the IoX (ISY) function for admin console is exactly as it is/was with the ISY994 so that's easy to catch up with. UD has even attempted to make it fairly simple to migrate from the ISY994 to the eisy with the instructions found in the wiki.

I think the support from UD is top notch, but not only that the community support the users bring to these forums is amazing. 

[hart2hart]

As you stated, keISY is a great device and support from UD remains excellent. With the resurrection of Insteon device availability, I plan to be here a long time with Insteon and some zwave devices. Will try out matter if /when it becomes real.

[Guy Lavoie]

I think the main question is: how deeply are you using the if/then logic of the ISY, vs just using it for remote access via the portal? The strength of the conditional logic possibilities are what sets it apart from an ordinary hub. The multi protocol capabilities (X10, Insteon, zwave, zigbee and soon, matter) are another plus for a single box device. Only you can answer what it means to you.

[intellihome]

22 minutes ago, Guy Lavoie said:

I think the main question is: how deeply are you using the if/then logic of the ISY, vs just using it for remote access via the portal? The strength of the conditional logic possibilities are what sets it apart from an ordinary hub. The multi protocol capabilities (X10, Insteon, zwave, zigbee and soon, matter) are another plus for a single box device. Only you can answer what it means to you.

Thanks Guy, I do like the if/then logic of the isy. I really like controlling my devices through Alexa and need the portal to have that ability with insteon. Most of the new Alexa compatible OEM devices have their own automation apps as well as Alexa. They update new features and it's always free. They still cannot compete with UDI's if/then control but they keep getting better. If I lose the portal, than my Insteon devices will no longer play nice with Alexa.

 

[intellihome]

7 hours ago, Geddy said:

@intellihome as with all technology it does tend to go "out of date". The reason UD raised their prices were made clear in a recent email and news blast on their site about the increased costs to keep the hardware working for the older (now unsupported) ISY994 devices. Depending on your needs to maintain a portal subscription it's possible you wouldn't need to renew the portal and could just use the ISY994 as you have it for the remaining Insteon devices. You will give up the connectivity that the portal provides, but depends on your use and dependency on that service to figure out if the cost for renewal with current hardware is worth it to you.

Not sure what links your referencing, but the most current deals can always be found directly on the UD site - https://www.universal-devices.com/

Currently they are having a "Black Friday" sale that was recently out in email saving off the list price you mentioned. 

Again, it's all relative to your use. At first I wasn't so keen on the idea of upgrading my system, but at the time it was simply 40-50 Insteon devices. Since the ISY994 had always been my "smart home" controller and I didn't have a Z-Wave board in my ISY994 then all I using was Insteon. When the eisy became available I did update to that device and have been happy. I then branched out and, like you, added a few extra devices here and there. Being able to control the other devices I've added through the plugins has really evolved my appreciation to the simple automations I have setup. You mention that you have YoLink and Kasa devices. Well there are plugins for both those brands that would expand their use with your Insteon devices through the eisy. That's the power of the eisy that you can expand the system beyond "just" Insteon, Zigbee, or Z-Wave. Through the plugins there are lots of options to incorporate into your automation system!

It's a small learning curve to incorporate the polyglot function into the system, but it's fairly simple if you just take time to read and learn the process. The cool part is the IoX (ISY) function for admin console is exactly as it is/was with the ISY994 so that's easy to catch up with. UD has even attempted to make it fairly simple to migrate from the ISY994 to the eisy with the instructions found in the wiki.

I think the support from UD is top notch, but not only that the community support the users bring to these forums is amazing. 

Thanks Geddy. You make a lot of good points. I did not know about the plugins to work with Yolink ($20) and Kasa. ($30). I could see myself making the switch due to the plugins. I assume I'd have better control of those devices with the eisy (Conditions and if/then logic). I just wonder if and when eisy will go bust and we'll have to invest another $300 bucks or more for the next device. Or when the cost of the portal starts climbing again. I realize technology gets outdated but the other option is to rely on the bigger brands that basically give you controller apps for free. Alexa app controls most of the new devices that are released every year. I understand it's a personal decision based on every user's individual needs and wants. I do appreciate the dialogue to help me make my next move. 

BTW I agree that support from UDi and the forum support is amazing. 

[dbwarner5]

8 hours ago, intellihome said:

Well, my trusty ISY994 is still running strong but it's time to renew my ISYPortal license ($44 for one year) for a discontinued unsupported device. This was my third ISY over the years. I am now faced with buying yet another device (eisy at $290) to continue operating my outdated Insteon devices (about 40 devices). As the Insteon devices fail, I've replaced them with all sorts of reliable Alexa compatible devices (YoLink, Kasa, TP Link etc). 

Is eisy worth the upgrade? The links to upgrade to eisy are outdated with old sale information that's been expired for some time. Do I just phase out Insteon and UD? I don't have Z-Wave, Zigbee or anything else that eisy will control. Why not just use the free Alexa app to control all things that are Alexa compatible? I'm hoping somebody can talk me off the cliff from ending my time with my beloved ISY and amazing support from UD and this great forum. 

 

I thin k Guy hit the correct issue.. These days, its not the actual device but instead the ability to "INTEGRATE and CONTROL"..

The simpler your needs are for the above, the less you need an EISY, and the more Alexa meets your needs. 

There are many "controllers" on the market. Two ends of the spectrum:

EASY-Amazon Alexa: broad integration, cheap, a lot of options for devices, simple routines, high on the pain level to manage / program more than a dozen routines or devices.

COMPLEX-Control four and other professionally installed systems: expensive, very reliable, requires an installer to modify

In between, you start to find other options such as (in order of above), like:

-Ring systems

-MyQ systems

-Insteon Hub

-Smarthings

-Eisy

-Home assistant

Eisy is at the high end of the Amateur (doesn't need a pro installer) end of the spectrum. With the new PGX which allows for a semi-native environment within the EIsy for >100 various "plugins" which link 3rd party manufactures like the ones you mentioned above, augmented by Alexa for an easy "control" center and access to other 3rd party products that do not have plug-ins, the EISY is a fantastic "controller" or "integrator". And it is easy enough to learn by any one who has the interest in true Home Automation vs just remote control via voice.

So as Guy and Geddie put it above, you have to question your self on what your real needs are for Home Automation. 

good luck..

 

 

[dbwarner5]

2 minutes ago, intellihome said:

Thanks Geddy. You make a lot of good points. I did not know about the plugins to work with Yolink ($20) and Kasa. ($30). I could see myself making the switch due to the plugins. I assume I'd have better control of those devices with the eisy (Conditions and if/then logic). I just wonder if and when eisy will go bust and we'll have to invest another $300 bucks or more for the next device. Or when the cost of the portal starts climbing again. I realize technology gets outdated but the other option is to rely on the bigger brands that basically give you controller apps for free. Alexa app controls most of the new devices that are released every year. I understand it's a personal decision based on every user's individual needs and wants. I do appreciate the dialogue to help me make my next move. 

BTW I agree that support from UDi and the forum support is amazing. 

This is the current list of plug in.

https://polyglot.universal-devices.com

 

When you use these plug ins, the 3rd party devices show up in your My Lighting Tree. and in all your programming options. 

 

Its game changing...

 

[oberkc]

Although less true for those incorporating some of the various polyglot add-ons, I think the original and continued value of the ISY software and Insteon/z-wave is that it works without a cloud service.  That is why I stay with Insteon and z-wave.  Yes, remote control (UD mobile and the various predecessors) requires internet, but my house automation would continue to work without it.  Though I do experiment with some of the polyglot stuff, the core function of my house is still handled by Insteon and z-wave, by the ISY (Polisy, in my case) controller. I do not like the risk of my house not working because a cloud service goes defunct for whatever reason or somebody decides to close off an API or makes a software change to my device that renders my system non-functional.  Also, though I think Echo and next and HomeKit are nice (If basic) controllers, they are not without their own set of problems and are not very sophisticated in their logic.

[Guy Lavoie]

12 hours ago, oberkc said:

I think the original and continued value of the ISY software and Insteon/z-wave is that it works without a cloud service.  That is why I stay with Insteon and z-wave.

That's also my main reason for using the eisy and those device protocols. Although we use Alexa a lot (esp my legally blind wife), I've also gone as far as "Alexa-proofing" my setup just in case it ever becomes unavailable, or internet goes down. All important functions and scenes can be triggered by alternate, local means. This includes keypadlincs and such. Also my reason for having smart switches instead of smart bulbs, though I have some Hue bulbs in lamps.

[intellihome]

15 hours ago, dbwarner5 said:

When you use these plug ins, the 3rd party devices show up in your My Lighting Tree. and in all your programming options. 

Its game changing...

 

I agree, the plugins give me a reason to keep investing into a platform I love. Insteon is expensive and not as reliable IMO. However the plugins seem to come with risk? I see most of them are designed and licensed by a single person. As new devices come out, updates are dependent on that person still being around and interested to keep it going.

[apostolakisl]

Lots of brands out there have an app that controls their devices and do it for free.  The advantage to ISY is that it is a brand agnostic controller.  You can mix and match all sorts of devices from all sorts of companies and have them work together as if they were all on the same platform.  So there is no flipping through apps and a device from one company can, through ISY, control and respond to a device from another company.

I am a big fan of local control, so that even if the company goes bankrupt or just up and decides to stop support, I can function.  That is why I like Insteon.  Companies like Yolink must continue to sell new products at a margin sufficient to support their servers.  ISY servers are not necessary to use ISY locally, and even remotely (you can use open ports or VPN and go direct from your phone app to the ISY without the portal).  And the portal has nothing to do at all with using all the other functions of ISY.  With UD charging for the portal at a price that is consistent with the costs, you can have a reasonable degree of confidence that it will continue to function.

 

[dbwarner5]

1 hour ago, apostolakisl said:

With UD charging for the portal at a price that is consistent with the costs, you can have a reasonable degree of confidence that it will continue to function.

Compared to all the "other" services, the charge for the portal is CHEAP and well worth it to give further support to Universal devices. Compare it to Ring, or Netflix or YoutubeTV, or Disney etc.. The functionality that it affords, if you take advantage of it, is unparalleled. 

[lilyoyo1]

On 11/26/2024 at 11:46 AM, intellihome said:

Well, my trusty ISY994 is still running strong but it's time to renew my ISYPortal license ($44 for one year) for a discontinued unsupported device. This was my third ISY over the years. I am now faced with buying yet another device (eisy at $290) to continue operating my outdated Insteon devices (about 40 devices). As the Insteon devices fail, I've replaced them with all sorts of reliable Alexa compatible devices (YoLink, Kasa, TP Link etc). 

Is eisy worth the upgrade? The links to upgrade to eisy are outdated with old sale information that's been expired for some time. Do I just phase out Insteon and UD? I don't have Z-Wave, Zigbee or anything else that eisy will control. Why not just use the free Alexa app to control all things that are Alexa compatible? I'm hoping somebody can talk me off the cliff from ending my time with my beloved ISY and amazing support from UD and this great forum. 

 

Unfortunately all good things come to an end. UDI has to make money regardless of the age of your devices/controller. The portal isnt for ISY support. its for remote access and voice.

I think your answer depends on how you use your system.If you just have basic timers, voice, and simple on/off programs, then you probably can get away with swapping. However, if you have a complex system, then you would need an advanced controller.

Using insteon (IMO) is a much better experience than the other switches that you mentioned. Being able to link a multitude of devices together and have them work together in sync is an unbeatable experience. One you can only really get with much more expensive switches such as lutron Ra3 or C4.

In the end, its up to you. What do you value and want to get out of your system.

 

[intellihome]

I really appreciate everyone's comments.

In the end, I decided to keep my ISY994 for another year and pay for the Portal license. I'll make the planned switch to EISY next year.

I've really had my ISY running on cruise control for the last several years and have not been keeping up with the latest news and firmware. Now that I am active again, I see that the community is still strong and UDi is still very much in the game. The plugins to incorporate non insteon devices is why I am staying the course with UDi.

I am still on version 4.9, wondering if it makes any sense to move to the latest version, work out the bugs so I have a smooth transfer to EISY sometime in 2025. Thoughts? 

[Guy Lavoie]

12 minutes ago, intellihome said:

I am still on version 4.9, wondering if it makes any sense to move to the latest version, work out the bugs so I have a smooth transfer to EISY sometime in 2025. Thoughts? 

I think it's always worthwhile to keep up to date, especially if you'll be doing a migration to another UDI controller.

[larryllix]

I really appreciate everyone's comments.
In the end, I decided to keep my ISY994 for another year and pay for the Portal license. I'll make the planned switch to EISY next year.
I've really had my ISY running on cruise control for the last several years and have not been keeping up with the latest news and firmware. Now that I am active again, I see that the community is still strong and UDi is still very much in the game. The plugins to incorporate non insteon devices is why I am staying the course with UDi.
I am still on version 4.9, wondering if it makes any sense to move to the latest version, work out the bugs so I have a smooth transfer to EISY sometime in 2025. Thoughts? 

There is a limit to the version you can use on the ISY but I would advance to v5 for sure. There are way too many features that I couldn't live without now.

Sent from my SM-S711W using Tapatalk

[intellihome]

20 minutes ago, larryllix said:

There is a limit to the version you can use on the ISY but I would advance to v5 for sure. There are way too many features that I couldn't live without now.

Sent from my SM-S711W using Tapatalk
 

Thank you. I will start exploring the features in v5. I remember I was going to do this years ago but ran into a problem or limitation. I'll have to research it and continue onward.

[intellihome]

35 minutes ago, Guy Lavoie said:

I think it's always worthwhile to keep up to date, especially if you'll be doing a migration to another UDI controller.

Agreed, thanks!

[Geddy]

1 hour ago, intellihome said:

I am still on version 4.9, wondering if it makes any sense to move to the latest version, work out the bugs so I have a smooth transfer to EISY sometime in 2025. Thoughts? 

@intellihome at this point in the game I tend to run contradictory to those above. If 4.9 is currently "working for you" then I'd say don't risk the upgrade to something that's newer just for the sake of being on 5.x. There were a lot of issues (at the time) of going from 4.9 to 5.x that if you haven't been paying attention are "hidden" in very old posts and the help/support is for such an update is so far removed that many might just vaguely remember something to fix any issues you run into. 

Since UD has made it possible to upgrade directly from 4.9 to the eisy, I might just stay where you are and cross your fingers with the migration if/when you actually attempt it. 

As your initial post indicates you don't have any Z-Wave. That was a huge portion of the 5.x update for the ISY994. The 5.x line is where UD became Z-Wave certified. I think the impact for Insteon use was fairly minimal. There were some other under the hood updates that allowed the ISY system to operate differently/better, but for an established system I'm not sure I would risk the upgrade at this point to simply migrate to the eisy in the future. You can directly migrate from what you have now so saving a step might be wise.

Unless you review some of the 5.x improvements and see how they would improve your current use of the ISY994 I'm more inclined to stay with what you've got. It's the simplest option (IMO). 

[oberkc]

I tend to agree with Geddy.  I recall a time where z-wave was a big factor, and it may be that v5 is where z-wave is backed up and, thus, restorable on EISY when you make the transition.  If you don't have z-wave, or if you have minimal z-wave, it could be more work than it is worth for you if you are otherwise happy with where you are and staying there until you upgrade.

[intellihome]

1 hour ago, Geddy said:

@intellihome at this point in the game I tend to run contradictory to those above. If 4.9 is currently "working for you" then I'd say don't risk the upgrade to something that's newer just for the sake of being on 5.x. There were a lot of issues (at the time) of going from 4.9 to 5.x that if you haven't been paying attention are "hidden" in very old posts and the help/support is for such an update is so far removed that many might just vaguely remember something to fix any issues you run into. 

Since UD has made it possible to upgrade directly from 4.9 to the eisy, I might just stay where you are and cross your fingers with the migration if/when you actually attempt it. 

As your initial post indicates you don't have any Z-Wave. That was a huge portion of the 5.x update for the ISY994. The 5.x line is where UD became Z-Wave certified. I think the impact for Insteon use was fairly minimal. There were some other under the hood updates that allowed the ISY system to operate differently/better, but for an established system I'm not sure I would risk the upgrade at this point to simply migrate to the eisy in the future. You can directly migrate from what you have now so saving a step might be wise.

Unless you review some of the 5.x improvements and see how they would improve your current use of the ISY994 I'm more inclined to stay with what you've got. It's the simplest option (IMO). 

Thank you for taking the time to comment and explain your advise/opinion. Over the last hour I was documenting my current setup and reading all the commentary I could find to start the upgrade. Meanwhile, my gut was telling me, you're about to break your smooth ISY automation. I will heed your advise and just wait until I get the eisy. If it's still on sale, I think I'll get it today.

The only reason I wanted to try the upgrade is because my Insteon devices no longer show up in Alexa routines. Alexa sees the devices but not for triggering routines. I saw a couple posts about needing to be in v5. Anyway, this issue is for another thread. Thanks Geddy!

[larryllix]

I just remember getting decimal variables and some network capabilities with v5. Zwave came along much later IIRC about v5.3.x when ISY development stalled.