Schlage Be469 v5.8 (non Z-wave Plus) / trouble adding to Matter Z-Wave / Q on status S2

[junkycosmos]

Having trouble moving my Schlage Be469 v5.8 (non Z-wave Plus) locks from ISY994 to Zmatter/ZWave.

These are older locks (9 of them) that have worked near flawlessly with ISY994 on older Zwave board .. today moved over to EISY and having trouble with Zwave.    Did not migrate my Zwave network as I know the links and such are hairball old.

So far working with only 1 lock so I can roll back to ISY if needed .. on that 1 lock I did a factory reset.   Then an exclude (worked) then did an include and eISY stuck on interviewing 2 (as seen in event viewer)  for 15 mins.    Restarted eISY and then did another exclusion and re-add.   This time I have a device listed but has IOIOI with writes missing to it.  Tried remove and re-add again and this time lock fully added but programming and control is not functional although ISY event viewer thinks successful.  

 

Is my old too old ?  This is a Schlage Be469 v5.8 (non Z-wave Plus) .. ?   

 

IF so .. before I buy 9 replacement locks can someone confirm if the eISY firmware was actually fixed to fully see S2 updates from the newer Schlage Be469 ZP models .. as noted in the thread here below from Jan 2023 ? 

 

 

Was this confirmed as fixed ?

 

Cannot add Schlage BE469 to Polisy w/zwave zmatter board  (thread is old and closed so cannot ask there)

 

[junkycosmos]

Found a Schlage b469ZP (newer z-wave plus model) in garage to test with - its a new unit but prob 5 yrs old.   I found when adding it to 5.8.4 the only option is to add as S2 via code.  So this would indicate what I bet some of you already know:::

Schlage BE469 v5.8 (older non Z-wave plus) worked well in v4.9 ISY but seem to have trouble on the new 5.8 on Z-Wave Matter board- these would appear to be adding as S0 since ISY does not prompt for ZPlus code .. maybe someone can chime in here with more of a test set as I only sacrificed one of my locks from v4.9 to test on ISY v5.8.4.    This is the lock I tried before my 1st post with strange mixed results.. 

Schlage BE469ZP (newer z-wave plus) - cannot be added to ISY v4.9 (needs v5.4+) - tried that long ago - but does add into ISY 5.8.4 however the interview process has issues, the lock has 2 nodes with the 1st adding quick and 2nd hanging.    Furthermore there appear to be some missing features lost when moving from ISY v4.9 to v5.8.4 (see Qs below) / Also the lock is forced to add as S2 via code (i.e. cannot go fall back to using as S0 if we wanted)

I can report that when locked and unlocked manually or via UD Mobile the locked / unlocked status does seem to report on UD mobile (I did not try triggering program).

so there are some key missing items .. 

Q1- how do you set access code length now ?  (in 4.9 you had an option button on the lock node in ISY which seems to be missing in 5.8.4) <attached pict>

Q2- also how do you setup the programs to alert when a specific user code unlocks the lock ?  On 4.9 the program of this worked great but on 5.8.4 I see no option to set more then generic lock/unlock <attached pict>

 

as example .. 

**former program in 4.9 that has worked great to alert when specific user code was used on any of the locks**

Lock Unlock by J - [ID 001E][Parent 002B]

If
        (
             Control 'Locks / Bedroom Deck Door' is switched Unlocked by Keypad
         And Status  'Locks / Bedroom Deck Door' is Access Code 1
        )
     Or (
             Control 'Locks / Down Patio Door' is switched Unlocked by Keypad
         And Status  'Locks / Down Patio Door' is Access Code 1
        )
   
Then
        Send Notification to 'J_All' content 'MyTemplate'

 

 

Maybe I am missing something not so obvious here on 5.8.4 on how to accomplish this ?  Clearly I am new to eISY and ISY 5.x but have been kicking around here since isy99i .. thx for any help.   

 

 

The BE469 v5.8 have worked well for over last 10yrs so I suppose we could replace them if that is the best route.  If anyone has suggestion on what locks might fit my needs here the reqs are as follows.   

keypad locks with codes that can be changed from ISY

deadbolt lock only but can lock/unlock by remote

can trigger program (ideally variable) on ISY that sends notification via specific user code (the BE469 v5.8 do this)

decent battery life (we get 6-18 months from our 4aa in BE469 v5.8

quantity x9 - ouch

 

 

 

 

[junkycosmos]

Found the Configuration Parameters sheet for Schlage BE469ZP - need to convert to dec for ISY use but can do via Set Configuration Button on the node in 5.8.4 - 

example to change user code length to 6 digit set Par number 16 to 6 - lock now takes 6 digit user codes locally OR via changing on Admin consul.   

 

However now that I have user codes working I am running into what was reported in that thread I referenced from Jan 2023, status of the lock does not appear to change on Admin consul when the a user code is entered or the knob is turned manually to lock or unlock... ...maybe what was noted as "a fix coming soon never came ?"  or perhaps something else I am missing .. 

 

 

24352403.pdf

[kandlg]

I had a similar issue when I migrated to eisy from ISY and filed a ticket.  Here is the response I received, which I tried and it did work:

To fix this for this particular lock, do the following on the lock node:

1) right+click Z-Wave | Compatability Mode ON

2) right+click Z-Wave | Validation | OFF

3) right+click Z-Wave | Rewrite All Device Links

This will write the necessary associations to the BE469ZP and thus it should then automatically report the status of the lock to IoX.

Note: For most devices you want to keep Validation ON and only turn it OFF as a last resort.

I have since moved on to Home Assistant for all my Z-Wave devices and bridge with my eisy for the insteon devices. It works much better.

 

[junkycosmos]

@kandlg - thank you very much for the post here.   Indeed your note added 2 steps that I had not tried before of steps 2 and 3.  Doing all three here now I can indeed see local status changes made on the new BE469ZP lock on the Admin and they trigger programs too.

so fix for BE469ZP to function as expected on eISY 5.8 (where the lock adds as S02) are to .. 

1) right+click Z-Wave | Compatability Mode ON

2) right+click Z-Wave | Validation | OFF

3) right+click Z-Wave | Rewrite All Device Links

Also noted that IF someone wants to change their lock to use a 6 digit code instead of a 4 digit code then set Par number 16 to 6 - (lock now takes 6 digit user codes locally OR via users button on eISY Admin consul) 

This is great as it gives a way forward for most users here who have BE469ZP.  

<<wonder how this type of info can be on WIKI vs bit buried here in the forum>> ?

 

 

Does still leave some of us with the question BE469 v5.8 (the units pre ZP) that were used on ISY994 pre 500 ZW boards - older units.   When I had tried to add them into eISY from the 994 by removing/then re-adding them things were very messy.    

I do have a ticket open with Support in hopes they have a path forward that does not involve replacing all my locks at this time.   

thx

J

Edited January 5 by junkycosmos

[Geddy]

7 hours ago, junkycosmos said:

I do have a ticket open with Support in hopes they have a path forward that does not involve replacing all my locks at this time.   

Please be sure to update with any solution you get through the support ticket so that it might help others if they have similar issues. 

[junkycosmos]

sharing update so far .. it has been bit of a slow process of back and forth on the ticket with support - did just get lower level Zwave logs back to support during attempt at re-enrollment, hoping Chris finds something useful...

So far no progress to report on the older Schlage BE469v5.8 - to EISY we tried increasing the interview timeout to 1 minute / the lock still only enrolls on EISY as 1 node with no functions available. 

Really does appear to be some issue with ESY on 5.8.4 and the older BE469v5.8, noting that these do and have worked fine on the ISY994 over the past 10yrs (with older zwave board) and on 4.9.0.     In other words the variables here are 1. ISY994 Zwave board to EISY Zwave /Matter board , 2. going from ISY v4.9.0 to  ISY 5.8.4 (on EISY).   Locks are in same location, ISY & EISY are in same location.. 

 

I did find this older forum posting that references similar sounding issue from Jan of 2023 and reference to a fix due in Feb, not sure how to confirm that was fixed ..

 

 

For clarity sake the newer Schlage be469zp (zwave plus) unit I setup as a test lock is still working well on EISY after the suggestions made above by @kandlg  (compatibility mode on, confirmations off, re-write all links) - this post is all focused on the older be469v5.8 - original schlage locks us early zwave users were rolling back at the start .. 

 

thx

 

 

 

[firstone]

The issue I've had was with ZP lock and newer firmware, FYI. Here's what you can do to troubleshoot it, if you're so set up. If you have another z-wave controller and have HA set up, you can try to enroll the lock into HA and see if it works correctly. From there you can generate the log files for enrollment and UDI maybe can see the difference. Some of these devices do not follow standard to a tee and sometimes half implement protocols. Which is why my "older" firmware was fine but newer wouldn't work. Schlage support was of zero help.

[junkycosmos]

thanks @firstone - indeed had not thought of going the Home Assistant route to try enrolling my BE469v5.8.  Thank you for the idea.

Noted this same lock enrolls great on ISY994 v4.9 and runs well (last 10rs have 9x of them at this location).    So the variables here are EISY Zwave board and V5.8.... and my existing network.

While I do understand these locks are older (ie when Zwave really stabilized), since they run fine on ISY994 v4.9 this seems to be  an issue of incompatibility how the EISY Zwave board, v5.8 or how it is implemented or something on existing network (largest variable).   

 

The existing Zwave network does have 30 or so devices some of which are S0 repeaters for the other locks.   My original plan was to completely wipe the ISY994 v4.9 Zwave network and re-enroll everything "clean" on the EISY v5.8.     Did one lock to "test" on EISY before wiping all from ISY994 so I could roll my migration back .. and hit this road block.   I did do an exclude on ISY994 for this lock, then powered down the ISY994 .. but back of my mind I am wondering if the other devices and repeaters (still enrolled with ISY994) could be interfering with the ESIY enrolling this lock.  

Suppose I could remove this lock from the door, take it and the EISY to middle of a quiet parking lot, then try the enroll process .. kinda a pita.

 

Appreciate the Home Assistant Idea - would need to pick up a Zwave USB dongle which is no big deal.

 

J

 

[firstone]

I don’t think ISY994 implemented security. I do not recall having to enter any codes. I’ve have older and zwave plus working with 994 but then had issues with polisy.  
 

But HA with modern usb stick will definitely have security. 

[junkycosmos]

Sure .. agreed the newer Zwave Plus stuff has security.   Those add to EISY with S2 while the non security devices add as S0.  
 

These BE469v5.8 are before z wave plus was a thing and add as non secure. 
 

The ISY994 v4.9 was indeed non secure non zwaveplus (on the 1st non beta board) .. and the BE469v5.8 are very happy there.  
 

Now onto EISY where S2 (secure) and zwave plus is the norm.. however it does claim support older non secure S0 enrollment or at least it tries to and has options to …but that is crux of the space I’m stuck in.    

Given roll out timing of EISY and when Schlage updated their own BE469 models from v5.8 to ZP (zwave plus) years ago ..  I really suspect most users and testing probably skipped this use case (older be469v5.8 on EISY).   Also most on forum posts on Schlage in EISY all focus on lack of status change alerts .. which again confirms those users were on BE469ZP - since we know fix for that (in post)
 

At least the EISY is not asking for s2 code on the be469v5.8 and does start the interview, but then it fails to communicate properly with the lock and enrollment fails.   

[Nitemare]

Has anyone came up with a solution for not being able to add Schlage BE469ZP to EISY?  I have had 4 of these locks in service since 2018 with my ISY.  When adding to the EISY I only get a single entry, no control.  I see others have had the same issue . . .  any suggestions would be appreciated.

[junkycosmos]

hi @Nitemare  -  are you 100% sure that our locks are BE469ZP and not BE469v5.8 ?   

Reason I ask is that your comment of only getting a single entry, no control for the lock on EISY but worked fine on ISY is the exact same I am running into with my BE469v5.8 

Also I tested a BE469ZP unit and they add into EISY fine, it asked for ZP security code, adds multiple nodes as expected.  After that does require additional steps after enrollment of turning on compatibility, turning off confirmation, and rewriting links (see several posts above).

 

I can understand how people are likely confused on which version of the BE469 the might have (as the locks look identical on the outside of the units) AND most retailers just started selling the new version w/o much notice..  

BE469v5.8 = S0 device, worked on ISY994 v4.9 older Zwave board, when attempting to add into the EISY the EISY does not ask for security code, removing battery cover of the lock there is NOT and enrollment button (instead Zwave enrollment is done by typing 8 digit code then 0 on the lock keypad

 

BE469ZP (Zwave Plus)= S2 device, does NOT work on ISY994 running v4.9 (might work on V5.x not sure), when attempting to enroll on EISY will ask for Secure code (code is sticker on part of lock that mounts to door that holds outside keypad on -remove lock to see it), to enroll the lock there is a button under the battery cover.

 

Please reply back to confirm which version you have.    Also if you have other examples in forum of those stuck getting the single node you mentioned and can easily find pls reference here.

 

thx

cheers 

 

Edited Monday at 05:33 AM by junkycosmos
clarify

[Nitemare]

Thanks for answering my post.  Interesting, all of my Schlage locks have the enroll button and are Z-wave Plus, and I have been using them with my ISY994i ZW+ IR PRO for years now.  I have increased device interview time to 1 minute and changed communication speed to 30 from default of 15.  Lock has been factory reset.  Start the add Z-wave device, press the enroll button on the lock, I have entered the secure code (located of the back of the lock) when prompted and I receive a prompt to verify the DSK for my device, I verify the popup, the node in the EISY is "Entry Control".  I know this has to be something simpIe but it is escaping me, I am including files . . .  

[kowaj]

I am having this exact same issue.  

[Javi]

If I recall the locks need to be factory reset then you MUST enter one of the default entry codes into the keypad.  Upon entry of a default code the lock will extend the deadbolt then retract the deadbolt.  After this is done use UD Mobile to scan the QR code.  Failure to do this resulted in failed attempt to add the lock.

UD Mobile's Zwave implementation needs updating so may be a good idea to also have the Admin Console open to verify lock had been added before canceling (finishing) setup in UD Mobile.