Has a Date Been Set?

[johnjces]

I have been scouring the forums and trying to keep an eye on when the January 2025 OS upgrade along with Matter support and other cool stuff will be available. All I know is January.

https://www.universal-devices.com/2025-liftoff/

Has a release date been set? What order of upgrade? OS first then IoX? Does the mobile app in its last update have the graphing ability now? I'm certain full information will be forthcoming but trying to plan on the upgrade and find time to work out any issues that might occur.

Thanks for any info.

John

[paulbates]

All great questions that don't have answers yet. The link you provided is all that can be known at this time. When they're certain its good to roll out, we'll get a post with all the answers.

[jtara92101]

I assume there will be an announcement in the slow-moving “announcements” section.

The app has had graphing for a while - you have to enable it on eISY with a secret incantation I don’t remember off-hand. I don’t have much I can graph, though I have an Ecobee and sensors and it indeed makes graphs.

And oh ah say, ah say Paul - I just realized we’re neighbors. Hello from Lathrup Village! 

Edited January 21 by jtara92101

[Guy Lavoie]

They have up until Jan 31st at 11:59 PM before the users get restless!

Well, better be a bit later and thoroughly checked out. Either way, I'll wait a bit before upgrading, in case something unforeseen comes up early on. I'm in no rush for Matter functionality.

Edited January 21 by Guy Lavoie

[Geddy]

29 minutes ago, Guy Lavoie said:

They have up until Jan 31st at 11:59 PM before the users get restless!

What do you mean? I'm surprised there wasn't a post at 12:01am on January 1st asking about the update. 

@jtara92101 as for the "slow moving announcements" area - last I checked on that there are so many moving parts now that it's hard to make an announcement when things are updated. That's why UD Mobile was being used to alert users about an update a few months ago. 

However, with this being a "big" upgrade/release I'm hopeful UD will have a good release, documentation, and processes in place to help with the transition. 

[Guy Lavoie]

56 minutes ago, Geddy said:

1- What do you mean? I'm surprised there wasn't a post at 12:01am on January 1st asking about the update. 

2- I'm hopeful UD will have a good release, documentation, and processes in place to help with the transition. 

1- Because we're such a reasonable bunch!

2- Yes, the d-word: documentation. Any extra effort in good documentation will pay off 10 to 1 against a flurry of support issues and tickets. UDI generally has good documentation, but it's just not up to date. This is a golden opportunity to catch up.

[larryllix]

They have up until Jan 31st at 11:59 PM before the users get restless!
Well, better be a bit later and thoroughly checked out. Either way, I'll wait a bit before upgrading, in case something unforeseen comes up early on. I'm in no rush for Matter functionality.

Are we almost there yet?



Sent from my SM-S711W using Tapatalk

[apostolakisl]

I was looking at the new Honeywell x2s thermostat which is Matter enabled.  Not sure how matter integrates into the ISY, but will this mean it is just plug and play?

[oberkc]

Based upon what I have seen, matter is not ready for prime time.  I would not assume that we know much about how it will work, whether thermostats are supported, or whether it will stay linked for more than a few days.  (Though, in fairness, I base my skepticism on thread, specifically, rather than matter as a whole.)

 

[apostolakisl]

12 hours ago, oberkc said:

Based upon what I have seen, matter is not ready for prime time.  I would not assume that we know much about how it will work, whether thermostats are supported, or whether it will stay linked for more than a few days.  (Though, in fairness, I base my skepticism on thread, specifically, rather than matter as a whole.)

 

theoretically, does a matter enabled ISY and a matter enabled device, natively integrate?  Like an Insteon or Z-wave switch would?  

[Guy Lavoie]

41 minutes ago, apostolakisl said:

theoretically, does a matter enabled ISY and a matter enabled device, natively integrate?  Like an Insteon or Z-wave switch would?  

I'd say more than likely. In ISY, everything becomes a node, and get equal treatment in program statements. Even devices that are created by plugins. 

The notion of scene is also democratized among all types of switches, not just Insteon. You can have an insteon triggered scene also turn on z-wave devices, etc. 

[apostolakisl]

16 minutes ago, Guy Lavoie said:

I'd say more than likely. In ISY, everything becomes a node, and get equal treatment in program statements. Even devices that are created by plugins. 

The notion of scene is also democratized among all types of switches, not just Insteon. You can have an insteon triggered scene also turn on z-wave devices, etc. 

Not what I mean.  I mean, do you just enroll the device and then the node pops up, properly populated and functioning, no node server (PG3) required.  As with an Insteon device.

[Guy Lavoie]

2 minutes ago, apostolakisl said:

Not what I mean.  I mean, do you just enroll the device and then the node pops up, properly populated and functioning, no node server (PG3) required.  As with an Insteon device.

Well no one has seen it yet, but I would be extremely surprised if Matter support came in the form of a plugin. It just wouldn't make sense, especially with the Zmatter dongle being part of the equation. I expect it to be integrated like z-wave is.

[Goose66]

Looking at equal but native from the opposite angle, I would hope (although I have no reason to believe) that Matter integration would be done using an API layer that would be the same as the eventual API for plugins after the removal of the Node Server API and PG3 from mix. In an ideal world, everything would be a plugin and Insteon, Zwave, Matter, and plugin nodes could all be equally supported. The difference would be Insteon, Zwave, and Matter plugins would be provided by UD (and probably be much more sophisticated and stable). 

Looking forward to IoX 6.x!

[apostolakisl]

Would the Matter dongle be like a PLM for Matter devices?  Accepting input from Matter devices and then "modeming" it into a language that ISY can accept.  But not including any node formatting, such that UD would have to have programmed into ISY or into the dongle what all the various outputs messages mean.  For example, ISY only knows how to populate all the nodes for an Insteon thermostat because UD programmed ISY to specifically accept that thermostat.  Many of us remember when Insteon released the new motion sensor and didn't release any documentation and we all had to wait until UD was able to reverse engineer it so that ISY could create the node.

Or, would the Matter protocol be standardized with a labeling language that describes all sorts of functionality generically covering everything.  Such that anyone could create a device, follow the Matter protocol, and then ISY with the Matter dongle could recognize the device and tell ISY how to populate the node even if no one at UD had ever even heard of the device.

Seems like it would have to be the latter since there could in the end by thousands or even 10's of thousands of Matter enabled devices out there.  If UD had to set the details for each device, I don't see where this is much different than how it currently is using PG3.

[Guy Lavoie]

Here is my idea about how it might all work (just speculation based on what I've read so far). Matter is an IP addressable protocol, so it would likely have a very well defined set of instructions and definitions for generic support. Much like "Class compatible" USB devices that need no drivers. As for physical layer, it supports both straight IP (hardwired and wifi) and Thread, which is a mesh network, like Z-wave and others. Battery powered devices will likely use Thread. Both both physical layer types support IPv6  addressing. Think of it as a type of dual band capability similar to Insteon, though I don't know of devices can act as repeaters across both physical layers the way Insteon does. Thread uses 2.4 GHz frequency, like Zigbee. I saw somewhere that the Zmatter dongle will use the Zigbee antenna for Matter too, which would make sense. So it would appear that the Zmatter dongle could be the equivalent of a wifi access point, but for Thread. Since both physical layers support IPv6, maybe the dongle will create it's own subnet and act as router? Who knows. Straight IP wifi or hardwired Matter devices probably won't need the dongle at all if you don't have any Thread devices.

I can't wait to find out how wrong I am!

Edited January 25 by Guy Lavoie

[Goose66]

1 hour ago, apostolakisl said:

Would the Matter dongle be like a PLM for Matter devices?  Accepting input from Matter devices and then "modeming" it into a language that ISY can accept.

While @Guy Lavoie post covers this, to be more direct, the Zmatter dongle is more like a PLM for Thread-over-Zigbee devices. Beyond Thread devices via the ZMatter dongle, Matter support in IoX should include other Matter devices, both directly via WiFi and through other hubs, such as Alexa devices (I hope). So you shouldn’t have to have the ZMatter dongle to integrate with any Matter devices, just Thread devices (when you don’t have some other hub).

Edited January 25 by Goose66

[oberkc]

4 hours ago, apostolakisl said:

theoretically, does a matter enabled ISY and a matter enabled device, natively integrate?  Like an Insteon or Z-wave switch would?  

I have suddenly been curious about matter and reading up on a lot of terms…border routers, edge routers, matter controllers, matter bridges, thread, mesh.  I percieve, for example, that (at this point) alexa border router/controller does not automatically link to a google router, but an alexa border router can share individual matter devices with a google matter router.  Thread and wifi are, of course, different.  From what I have read about the ISY, my,perception is that matter (wifi) devices will iintegrate natively with IoX.  Matter (thread) devices will integrate only via a nest hub (gen2j or apple home.  Interestin to me is that they did not mention any thread enable routers from amazon.

I am also assuming that, at this point, IoX is not exposing nodes to other matter controllers via a matter interface.  For now, I am assuming that this will still require a portal account.  Maybe this will change in the future.

Maybe my assumptions and perceptions are all wrong.

[bcdavis75]

Are we still in January?

[Guy Lavoie]

19 minutes ago, bcdavis75 said:

Are we still in January?

Not for long...

[XtroN]

We are 3 hours away from being Feb 1 on the east coast.  Getting close.  

Funny, I was just searching and saw this on google.  Universal Devices - Location Closed which matches the address on their website.  I think we put too much pressure on them... 

[jtara92101]

Midnight drop? Or Midnight pity party?

No wine before its time? Or no wine?

We need divine intervention. Encino surely has water by now. The big guy turned on the tap!

 

Edited Saturday at 03:27 AM by jtara92101

[apostolakisl]

For lease.  I guess they moved to a new secret lair.  

[kurelgyer]

🦗🦗🦗

[jtara92101]

2 hours ago, apostolakisl said:

For lease.  I guess they moved to a new secret lair.  

We don’t know when the picture was taken, and of course I was curious and I noticed there is a lot of office space for lease in the area - at least when photos were taken.

I infer from addresses that UDI’s suite is in the back of the building somewhere.

Was there any update on the impact of fires on company operations? The major ones are just now 100% contained.

Still looking for that miracle turning water into wine.

However: turns out the Army Corps of Engineers uselessly and wastefully diverted water from N. California to the inland “bread basket” area on the east side of the mountains, and there are concerns about available water for crops this summer.

Maybe employees are all going out snapping up the last available chest freezers?

I put one in my Michigan basement a month ago, snappy new WiFi model from Home Depot that was on sale end of the year.  Made in China, of course.  Boy am I glad I did. From power measurements the thing might even have an unadvertised inverter, or at least somehow variable compressor. Gonna go grab the last of that Canadian beef before it stops coming over the bridge. 

All in jest and satire - sort of - but also pointing out that the LA area is particularly affected by recent natural and unnatural phenomena, so cut them some slack.