Insteon Education

[flsenior]

Does anyone have a resource that I could reference which provides education on programming Insteon on the Eisy?  Specifically, I am trying to understand scenes, controllers, responders. 

Some of my questions include the following;

- Do I use a scene to simultaneously operate a number of switches and dimmers that are in an area or do I write a program to operate the devices?

- I am replacing a 3-way circuit.  Can I use a dimmer & an 0n/off or must both devices match?  IE dimmer/dimmer, on/off & on/off. 

- In the two examples above, can I operate these two devices in a scene or should I write a program? 

- Again, in this type of 3 way circuit, is one device a controller, responder or are both controllers? 

- If one is a controller and the other a responder, does it matter which device has the controller label (dimmer or switch)?

In the main Eisy scene screen do I set the on level for each device or does my on level from the device list carry over to the scene?

 

Thanks for help on these questions and pointing me to documentation which may help with these and other Insteon questions. 

[Geddy]

@flsenior the eisy is just like the former ISY994 (or older) devices. If you've set them up before they would work nearly identical with the eisy. Since you've been registered here since 2011 I'll assume you're coming from another ISY device. If an existing install probably very little should need setting up. However, if this is a new install then you will be starting from scratch and you'll be able to setup what works best for your situation.

You can always download and review the (old) ISY Cookbook (found in the wiki: https://wiki.universal-devices.com/Main_Page#ISY_Cookbook). I'll just caution you that the cookbook was written a while back pre ISY 5.x firmware so some things have changed (scenes mostly). I'm not sure if the wiki scene portion has been updated to 5.x setup, but review the wiki and then program and adjust as best fits your needs.

1 hour ago, flsenior said:

- Do I use a scene to simultaneously operate a number of switches and dimmers that are in an area or do I write a program to operate the devices?

Personal preference. Are you controlling the devices at the same time or various times of the day? If at the same time then make a scene. Are you trying to brighten or dim devices (use programs to adjust the scene) 

1 hour ago, flsenior said:

- I am replacing a 3-way circuit.  Can I use a dimmer & an 0n/off or must both devices match?  IE dimmer/dimmer, on/off & on/off. 

I'm not 100% sure on this one. All my 3-way are using the same type of device. I would need to have somebody else chime in for actual use case on this. I think the question might be do you want to be able to dim the devices? If so I'd say put a dimmer on each side of this. If you're just doing on/off then maybe either would work, but again, not 100% so don't risk it. I'd just make them the same type of device. 

1 hour ago, flsenior said:

- In the two examples above, can I operate these two devices in a scene or should I write a program? 

3-way will be a scene. There is a way you could control with a program, but the suggested way would be scene. (the Cookbook might help answer some of your questions)

1 hour ago, flsenior said:

- Again, in this type of 3 way circuit, is one device a controller, responder or are both controllers? 

Review the cookbook. Make both controllers so they would both show "on" when the other was flipped on.

1 hour ago, flsenior said:

In the main Eisy scene screen do I set the on level for each device or does my on level from the device list carry over to the scene?

I'm not sure I understand what you mean by "main eisy scene". One difference from ISY 4.x to 5.x was the loss of "copy scene attributes" (or whatever it was called). This was due to the inclusion of Z-Wave certification. If you mean for the scene properties when you click on the scene name in the device tree you should set the device properties there, but I think it also needs to be applied at the device level. I don't use scenes much beyond 3-way handling for halls and stairs so a more experienced user with scene skills would need to chime in to help. But through reading the cookbook and setting things up I'm sure you'll get the hang of it after adding a scene or two. Just remember if you turn the scene on using admin console it might be different than physically operating a switch so test at both levels as you setup. 

1 hour ago, flsenior said:

pointing me to documentation

Be sure to review the wiki for a lot of details:  https://wiki.universal-devices.com/Main_Page#

[oberkc]

2 hours ago, flsenior said:

I am replacing a 3-way circuit.  Can I use a dimmer & an 0n/off or must both devices match?  IE dimmer/dimmer, on/off & on/off. 

Can be mixed, but light will behave only based upon to which switch it is connected.  

 

51 minutes ago, Geddy said:

In the main Eisy scene screen do I set the on level for each device or does my on level from the device list carry over to the scene?

Responder levels for each responder in a scene can be unique to each controller device, and to the scene, itself (basically think of it as the EISY/PLM being the controller device).

[paulbates]

Assuming you're migrating from a previous ISY99xx controller, you'll back up what you have and restore on eisy... switches, scenes and programs. 

I moved houses and started with a new eisy, but it's fundamentally what you're used to

[xlurkr]

1 hour ago, oberkc said:

Can be mixed, but light will behave only based upon to which switch it is connected.  

To elaborate, one switch will control the load directly via its load line.  If that switch is a dimmer you can dim.  And in that case, any switch that's part of the N-way will also be able to dim the load, whether it is a dimmer version or not.

-Tom

[flsenior]

Thanks to everyone who responded.  I bought my first ISY in 2011 and I have performed no programming in 8-10 years as the system worked just fine.  Even the exchange to a new ISY was a no brainer.

Now I am in a new house with a new Eisy and all new devices, rooms, etc. so I am trying to navigate the setup from my ancient memory and as it appears, from ancient documentation. 

My primary challenge has been scenes.  As noted above, the process has changed and there appears to be no updated documentation that is kept in one location.  I don't know where to point the finger as Insteon doesn't sell the Eisy and UD does not sell Insteon.  Insteon is willing to answer support questions, however, that process doesn't facilitate timely responses and follow up questions. 

My conclusion is to again say "Thank  you", to all of you on the forum who spend the time to provide help.

[lilyoyo1]

2 hours ago, flsenior said:

Thanks to everyone who responded.  I bought my first ISY in 2011 and I have performed no programming in 8-10 years as the system worked just fine.  Even the exchange to a new ISY was a no brainer.

Now I am in a new house with a new Eisy and all new devices, rooms, etc. so I am trying to navigate the setup from my ancient memory and as it appears, from ancient documentation. 

My primary challenge has been scenes.  As noted above, the process has changed and there appears to be no updated documentation that is kept in one location.  I don't know where to point the finger as Insteon doesn't sell the Eisy and UD does not sell Insteon.  Insteon is willing to answer support questions, however, that process doesn't facilitate timely responses and follow up questions. 

My conclusion is to again say "Thank  you", to all of you on the forum who spend the time to provide help.

It's not that the documentation is ancient, it's the flexibility that the system has makes maintaining specifics virtually impossible.

Just looking at your questions though, none of the information that would be found in current resources is outdated. Nothing has changed with linking devices. This can be found in the Insteon white papers, Insteon, device manuals, (the eisy does the same programmically vs manually), the cookbook, and other various resources that are available on UDIs website. 

The truth is, whether you use scenes or programs comes down to individual desires. How do you want your house to operate. Both ways have pros and cons. It comes down to what works for you and the things you want to do.  

For example, when I used Insteon, 98% of my setup was via scenes. The only individual devices in programs were sensor controlled devices. If anything had 2 or more devices, then I used scenes. 

There are some here who use many programs while others maintain a mixture of both. 

If you choose to use scenes, then it comes down to the approach you want to use. There will be some trial and error. You'll have to be willing to experiment once you get to specific situations. That's really the only way to learn your devices. I think the isy cookbook is 600 pages. For someone to write a detailed explanation for every thing beyond what it has, you'd end up with a manual the size of War and Peace. 

The Insteon hub makes all of this simple since you're severely limited in what you can accomplish with it. With the eisy being an advance controller, it comes down to being willing to experiment, learn the nuances of everything, and how they all work together.