Teken

Ha, I love it . . . I am looking forward to reading how this endeavour turns out for you. Please do keep the membership updated with your efforts.

Please confirm my understanding if I am not correct. So your plans are create program(s) that monitors the power / KWH for a specific period of time due to the ToU billing method you are on. Should the house be consuming above and beyond what ever value you have set. You will instruct random Insteon controlled devices to be turned off etc correct?

UDI is currently in a holding pattern until such time as Smartlabs is ready to sell Insteon chips to them.

Hello Craig, My reply has nothing to do with your original question so I do apologise. I wanted to know how exactly do you intend to use the information you have, being connected to the smart meter? I am trying to wrap my brain around what can be done in the ISY using this method?

Hello Mike, 1. You will need to purchase the 994ZS Series Controller. 2. You will need to engage PG&E to enroll your ISY and issue a key. It would be best to reach out to the POCO first to confirm they are participating in this endeavor. If you create a service request with UDI they can arrange a time and date to be on the phone with all parties to facilitate this process for you. As sometimes the person you get on the phone has absolutely no clue what's going on. [emoji17] Going through UDI will make this process less stressful. [emoji4] Ideals are peaceful - History is violent

That's still a pretty good value given what it offers the general consumer. I will state this again, as I have done in the past here and in other forums. If they ever add in conditional logic and some trouble shooting diagnostics like was seen in HL2. All the while supporting all of their Insteon enabled hardware, coupled with more dusk to dawn options and some kind of RTC that ensures accuracy. At the $79.99 price point even I will buy one! As it stands I believe the HUB Pro which is slated to be released in June will be barometer of things to come.

The OP hasn't done any packet sniffing via wire shark so can't say. I am sure there are lots of dependencies in the cloud which very few people realize are in place. It comes down to how much Smartlabs wants to share with the customer which we all know is zero! [emoji52] Ideals are peaceful - History is violent

Well so far the OP has changed out to another router with the same results. He has already deleted and added back one of the I/O's and its still the same?? I find it extremely hard to understand and believe one single device is not controllable??? Its obviously not a *normal* COM issue because he is able to control everything via the LAN. While over the WAN he can control everything except the GDO I/O's which makes no sense to me?? There must be some kind of cloud association that is impacting this. I asked him to use another OS (assuming he has one) because all three smartphone OS's seem to support or not support devices, features, etc. I just wanted to rule out this was the cause as I know all three OS Apps were just updated and this might be a simple bug. What doesn't make sense is that everything worked and was accessible with the older HUB v1. So I just don't know . . .

It should also be noted that depending upon what smartphone OS you're using: Android, Windows, iOS. Not all of them function the same or support the same devices or features for a particular device. Case in point the Android App does not support full control of the latest dual outlet. It only controls the top and not the bottom. It should also be noted the latest HUB II update has supposedly corrected the time drift everyone has been seeing. The HUB II does not have a real time clock (RTC) inside and relies on the phone / cloud. Many have seen basic dusk to dawn timers not firing off due to the above time drift. You should be aware the current literature which states sms text is no longer supported also and now allows e-mail / push notification as options. I think the HUB II is a great cheap point and shoot controller for anyone so long as they walk into this with proper expectations. For $39.99 its really hard to beat based on price point given the very clean smartphone UI and set up. In my view it would be a much better investment just to purchase the lowest priced ISY-994 Series Controller either second hand or wait until another SH sale. The benefit of going this route is having the *choice* to upgrade the unit via software / hardware should the need ever arise. With the HUB II you have absolutely no option or choice in upgrade path or feature potential.

I do have to agree a clean GUI and point and shoot programming is missing in the ISY Series Controller. This is the one area I will concede Smartlabs has done a very good job in providing the masses via the HUB II / HUB Pro controllers. As much as I bag on them for the lack of vision along with zero feed back. My expectations is within the next five years Smarthome / Smartlabs will wake up and smell the coffee. In that era they will be a force to be reckon with and if the people backing this product ever actually sit down and be serious in this area and include conditional programming, trouble shooting diagnostics (HL2), along with energy management, Apple Home Kit, etc. This landscape will become very interesting to say the least.

Well that really comes down to first setting realistic expectations. Next is deploying any system in a small, controlled, and methodical way. I've seen too many people fall into the (HA Fad) full bore only to realize they did not even take a moment to really sit down and think how this system would integrate or better their lives. This is the major problem with the current crop of HA users no planning . . . It should also be indicated Insteon is not a replacement for a security system but does offer features and attributes which help an existing system be more usable, friendly, and capable. Again, I've seen dozens of people walk into this HA game being a complete cheap aszz and complaining moments later XYZ is just brutal and terrible in this respect??? Really??? You went out of your way to purchase a device that is not listed, endorsed, tested / certified, as a security device yet you expected it to perform as such?? Incredible . . . I have literally turned down thousand dollar installs because I told the owners they had no freaking clue what they wanted. Once they came back and had reasonable expectations along with mile markers for accomplishing these goals. Maybe we could entertain installing 200 plus devices costing you thousands of dollars in hopes your (fantasy matched reality) the first go round! You know the great thing about being broke and poor in this HA game?? You actually have to wait to install the next big thing until you get paid which realistically makes a person analyze the actual needs vs wants. It forces those people to really consider the use case and how it all ties together along with what kind of work, effort, and time it takes to all make it happen. People who have more money than brains often plop down lots of big phatties of Bennies and hope for the best. You know what *Hope don't float* . . . In simple terms my personal experience is 90% of the people just getting into the HA game really aren't serious or have a clue whats going on. They believe its going to be plug and play and all is well and no trouble shooting is required. Wrong . . . The technology is not there yet and there are too many outside factors that impair and lesson the quality of the HA experience. I can count on one hand how many people who have actually done the following from the onset. 1. Identify all noise makers / signal suckers: filter, remove, replace 2. Confirm proper coupling / bridging outlined by the 2413S PLM hand out or any dual band full users manual. 3. Hard reset all devices to a OEM state prior to install. These three basic principles are rarely done or even attempted, why?? At the end of the day the tech has gotten way better and there are many more features and devices on the market we never had. All of this tech does not supersede common sense, reading the freaking manual, or following best practices and known SOP's!

Hello Paul, I appreciate the insight and also believes this high lights some of the issues that can arise from using cloud hosted services. This assumes this is the culprit in this situation.

The unit is supposed to have a 10 year service life which is based on so many XXX activation's / interactions. A few people have already commented they had to replace the battery well before the 10 year threshold. I wouldn't count on the battery being 100% given how most makers use the lowest quality (read cheap) in their products.

I would encourage you to measure the voltage on the battery with in the LS. If the LS was fully operational in that location for an entire year and now its not able to transmit its heart beat to be seen over the Insteon network. Its possible the battery voltage is low and placing a dual band device is simply acting as a band aid in hiding that fact.

There is a Insteon user who is having a very unique issue where he is able to control all of his Insteon devices via the LAN and WAN. Though he has a specific device which is a I/O Linc which controls two GDO which operate just fine over the LAN but can not do the same over the WAN? I can tell you from all the years doing this I have never seen just a single device not accessible from remote control?? Does anyone have ideas or possible faults that could be present that would be so specific to this issue?? The one thing I've asked the user is to try the same with a iPhone vs Android. The reason being is some of the iterations of Windows / Android certain features or products were not present or supported vs the iOS platform. Has anyone ever seen where a single device was not accessible via the WAN but yet controllable by the LAN??? The user has affirmed local access does in fact control all other Insteon devices and prior to installing the HUB II it worked perfectly with his HUB v1. The only other thing I can think is there is some kind of *cloud* issue where the command is not being sent from the new HUB II? http://forum.smarthome.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=16718

I'm not sure what you're asking? Is there an option to upgrade a base unit to Z-Wave? If so yes . . . Z-Wave has a lot more third party makers whereas there is only one Insteon maker. There are only a few devices where Insteon does not make. Such as siren, locks, multi port outlets, multi sensor, etc. Ideals are peaceful - History is violent

I would second this line of thought unless the OP made a mistake in his presentation of the facts. To me if there is a fault in the TSTAT that issue needs to be identified and resolved. Using a program to compensate for an existing problem is a band aid and will ultimately cause more problems down the road. To the OP what exactly is the problem with the TSTAT and is this problem still an ongoing issue? If its not an issue and you simply want a fail safe program you can carry on . . .

My understanding is UDI has already submitted an application to be a developer for Apple Home Kit. I believe once 5.XX and Z-Wave hardware support is fleshed out more resources may be retasked toward UI development and smartphone applications. I do have to agree these two areas need serious attention in the wake of Smartlabs introduction of the HUB Pro and support for Apple wearables. Ideals are peaceful - History is violent

To further expand on the comments above from these great ISY members. The HUB II is a great device for those who want a simple plug and play controller. Has an excellent and clean smartphone application user interface. If you want a quick point and shoot device the HUB II & HUB Pro will meet the near term goals for those who want a out of the box set up. Having said this . . . History has proven that once a person becomes familiar with something quick and simple they most certainly transition to something that offers more features, capability, and power. The ISY Series Controller is the balance of point and shoot where if you want nothing more than add, remove, create scene relationships it will do it. The hidden potential comes down to crafting programs that allow conditional logic that is only limited by your personal imagination. As others have noted if you add in the extra software features the level of interaction, connection, and reach is wide reaching. If you're looking toward the future and have long term plans in the HA space the HUB II is not for you. If you're looking for an investment in, on any level with HA the ISY Series Controller is truly the first choice. The three things you will never see from Smartlabs / Smarthome is consumer interaction and engagement. You will never receive feed back about time lines or road maps of their development. You will have zero say in the future or development of their final product (minus the wish list) that is hosted in their alternate site. UDI has proven they are here for the long haul and plan for the future. They may not be the quickest to implement or take on the next hot thing. But, neither are they known for releasing a half baked product / support. In my view they have tried very hard to lay out the foundation and vision of what they expect the ISY Series Controller to be. Its my belief that once 5.XX firmware and Z-Wave hardware support has been fully fleshed out. We as a community and user base will see more (fad) features and connectivity with various sites and resources. To the OP all of the things I have expressed above will never be seen in any iteration of the HUB controllers. People often asks me how can someone make such a bold statement over the Internet? Well, its called history . . . History has proven Smartlabs / Smarthome has no long term road map for their controllers, none. Five generations of their controllers have each been released and every one of them have been abandoned with out updates or upgrades. Every controller they have ever released has had either hardware issues or software issues. Don't even go down the road about reliability and longevity because there are none. The only light at the end of the tunnel is the soon to be released HUB Pro which supports Apple Home Kit. I simply offer this challenge to Smartlabs / Smarthome (Joe Dada) Pretend your life and the Insteon product brand depend on this HUB Pro release, because it does. When people stop and consider the tens of millions of dollars your company makes and each year they offer the same half baked controllers when compared to a very small company like UDI??? What does that show the general public at large?? In my eyes it shows you are not serious, you're not looking for the long term, you're eager to make a quick buck on the backs of those who support you. You have no vision and have no clue this single product is tarnishing the Insteon name brand. I've given Smarthome / Smartlabs five generation chances to make it right and each time they have failed on such a epic level it defies logic at every turn. For those who are not familiar with the various iterations they were: iGateway, SmartLinc, HUB v1, HUB v2, HUB II, soon to be released HUB Pro. Not to forget a great piece of software that simply had zero development or love House Linc 2. Ha . . .

Comparing the ISY to the Insteon HUB is like comparing a Chevette to a Corvette.

Based on all the forum replies this hardware 2 PLM appears to have a stronger RF output. Which must be impacting the reception portion. Standing RF waves are obviously at play here because if you're further than the PLM this indicates over powering the receiver and not the transmission. Ideals are peaceful - History is violent

I think the best thing about HA now is there are some really major players entering the scene. Whether that be Apple, Google, Samsung, Microsoft, etc. As much as I dislike Apple on so many fronts their Apple Home Kit will in some way help foster more growth, adoption, and common standards. Right or wrong the HA industry needed someone to unify the piss poor standards and protocols out there. I know Zigbee has a new push along with others. Insteon has now started to open their API and decided to participate with other platforms most recently announced for the HUB product line. Lots of great things will surely come out in the next five years that will open new doors for the general public. The only thing I can't stand is the endless push for this whole cloud hosted services! Companies that do this really are just being cheap in that they didn't have the mind set to create a great product that could stand on its own and operate like any self contained device does. This lazy attitude is systemic in our society of the dumb, inept, and those who don't want to think. They want everything to be spoon fed to them on every level. This is life . . . Life takes work, research, learning, and applying that knowledge each and every day so goals are met. I know Mike I at UDI listed an announcement about a few large POCO's who insisted that any energy controller had to have native support and operations with out the requirement of the cloud power. This is exactly what needs to be done on every level for the *toys* being released by so many also rans. The reality is *Cloud Power* has a place in the world but it has not been deployed effectively or in a way that allows the same control and management as a stand alone device that does not require such dependencies. These lazy companies simply want to suck out another dollar out of you or lock you into their eco system. People really need to vote with their wallet and tell them to stop and shove it! The sad part is the majority of the general populace are so lazy and dumb the growth of *Cloud Dependent* services will ultimately be the winner and device offerings. Truly sad . . . People should realize almost 20 plus million of the Pet Rock was sold around the world. What does this say about those people?? That they were too stupid to go outside and pick up a rock and apply paint to said rock! But decided to part with hard earned money and pay someone else for a piece of rock found on the side of the road! Just because millions of people do it doesn't make it right, correct, or the proper thing to do. This is exactly where we are with the cloud power and those silly devices which seem to pop up every day.

1. What happens when you hard reset the device to a factory state? Does it still behave the same way? 2. Are you sure there aren't two neutrals from two both sides of the house in that JBOX? 3. What is the load on the two KPL's? Have you tried using standard incandescent and are the results the same?

For me I took a really long time sitting on the fence before jumping into the whole HA with both feet. I essentially waited four extra years before making my initial Insteon purchase due to the tac switch issue from years past. With anything I do I researched what each competing protocol offered when compared to the others. Afterwards it was a slow and methodical deployment of the Insteon devices in the home. Using the power of the Internet I read almost every forum post related to HA and Insteon. From trouble shooting, programming, and how to accomplish specific goals and tasks. I think what many of the people going into HA now has is the benefit of years of progress and evolving improvements in the hardware, software, firmware when compared to yesteryear's. The one tried and true fact was listening to those with personal experience with a controller. It came as no surprise to me the controller of choice was the ISY Series Controller. I knew from the on set this would be a long term investment in the technology and infrastructure. Because of this, it was evident investing more into the *brains* of the controller was going to be cornerstone of the HA system and critical elements that help to program, manage, and trouble shoot a large install. I am extremely happy to say during the course of six plus years I have not been disappointed in my initial investment. What I can say is some elements I wished I did still wait for the technology or areas of interest to me were more developed and proven. As my friend richaree has stated in the past and in other related threads. Sometimes there is a cost and hindrance in living on the bleeding edge of technology that has not been fully fleshed out, proven, or developed. Its safe to say the majority of the people on this forum in some fashion like to be living on the bleeding edge. When people look at HA you really have to consider how small this industry really still is. If you look outside of your window and look at the people living next to you. I am pretty certain if you counted 50 houses its safe to say out of the 50 you're the only one with HA. Consider that 49 people around you have not a single X-10, Insteon, Z-Wave, Zigbee, UPB, etc. So, if any of these 49 people decide to get into HA at this point one thing I can safely say is lots of the ground work has been laid out and many things have been improved over the years to allow them a much better experience. As another member indicated if the OP is seeing massive electronic failures outside of a manufacture defect. (Yes, we all know of a few specific units that were truly pieces of junk) This comes down to the install and the environment the hardware is being used in. I've said this many times here and in other forums. The reality is the USA depending upon where you live has some of the worst regulated power in the free world. Electrical power is the life blood of any electronic device and if that power is *dirty* don't expect to see a long service life out of those components, period. Keeping in mind a whole house surge protector is only one single element that will help offset some of the problems a person will see. A whole house surge protector does not help resolve dirty power. Meaning it will not help you against a brown out (sag) or a high voltage condition. Also note more homes are damaged incrementally over the years from internal surges and spikes. These internal surges, sags, spikes, come from HVAC, Pumps, Motors, etc. This is why having a layered electrical protection is paramount to ensure end devices are well protected and lessen the electrical effect on the hardware. In the end one key thing people should consider and apply is not to integrate too many electronics into their homes. Everyone should have a few zones, areas, floors that use basic and old school tech. Whether that be a basic toggle switch to what ever you deem is low tech and doesn't have lots of electronic gizmo's. Given where we are these days finding low tech devices with out some kind of computer is hard. But, this should really be top of mind for those are going to purchase large appliances and house gear. The appliance industry is busting at the seams on repairs because they purposely make products to a sub standard level where nothing is made to last. The level of protection and quality they place in the fridge, stove, microwave, toaster, etc. Is intended to blow up at a predetermined time along with almost no electrical surge protection. Thus, that equates to early failures do to the fact they want you to buy more cheap products.

Hello Jeff, The program you're speaking about does on the surface appear to be very complex. But, in reality its just a lot of entering information per the outlined thread from the original author. If there are elements that are unclear to you about any step please do ask them here or in the original thread. There will be lots of great folks willing to jump in and help or clarify any aspect that may not be too easy to understand. Don't let all the mumbo jumbo of programming get you scared or stop from trying. The benefit of the program as you're probably aware is being alerted each of the sensor states, heart beat, and the programs operating status. The time and effort to implement Belias's program can not be over stated!