Teken

I believe moving forward since the *Magic* was unleashed all new Insteon devices should use the (Auto Discover) feature. This ensures all attributes are seen and enabled with in the ISY Series Controller. The only reason I have resisted from re-adding the old battery operated devices is because there are too many programs tied to them. Next, sometimes there are new features in the option list that simply do not work. I gather this is due to the fact someone can have a device that has (listed) firmware that simply isn't fully supported in the device itself. Even if the ISY says its the correct version the actual device firmware doesn't support those new features. This was seen in the Leak Sensor where some had the exact hardware / firmware. Yet theirs did not return from a wet to dry state as others did. I also saw this with the MS where HL2 was able to push updates upon motion detection. Whereas the ISY was still unable to do the same so I don't know what the distinction could be for that scenario.

1. If you remove power from in floor heating control box does it recall the pre-set temp upon boot up? 2. Are you aware of what sort of sensors are being used for this in floor heater? Is it a simple thermistor or Dallas 1-Wire? 3. Having those telephone wires in each room will prove most excellent if you decide to pursue a 1-Wire system. You could simply install cheap 1-wire sensors into the cover plate like this:

I am hesitant to think using a TSTAT in place of the in floor sensor would provide the correct temperature reading. The in floor heating would have to get fairly hot before it made an appreciable change in temp. Please correct me if I am wrong your goal is to two fold. One being able to control the in floor heating device the other is monitoring the in floor temperature, correct? I am unsure what sort of access and work you're willing to undertake to accomplish this task. But, using any flavor of 1-wire sensor network will address the temperature monitoring aspect and allow you to send the temperature via *State Variables* to the ISY Series Controller. To control the power of the in floor heating I would gather simply using a Micro Relay would facilitate in turning the device on/off. I also assume the device has some type of memory which can be recalled upon power up? If not, then intercepting power and interrupting it is not the correct method because the unit would lose its programming.

The Micro Relay makes a click but I certainly would not call it loud by any stretch of the imagination. Glad its working now even if we don't know why! I worked on a combination microwave / IR sensor for about nine hours over the week end. System indicated it was tampered and the fault would not clear. Performed a continuity check on the length of wire and all was good. Measured the EOL resistors and all values were in spec. Checked the tamper switch at the sensor was fully operational and with in spec. Went back to the distribution board and all connections, voltages, signals were solid. Replaced the sensor, board, etc yet the panel still indicated a tamper WTF?? Put back all the original sensor parts and after rebooting the alarm panel in what seemed like 9999999999999 times. It came up clear with no faults, no tamper, nothing! Sometimes its like magic and things just work / don't work.

Well, from a logistic and technical stand point if this was the case. One would have expected tens of thousands of people to be seeing and impacted by this v.00 issue. The only battery operated devices that have firmware number are new devices I installed last year. All of the other (5 years old) battery operated devices all show v.00. To date I have not been impacted or seen this terrible ALL ON event that some have endured. My belief is there is some kind of conflict which is allowing Insteon commands to perform this action. Going back into the (time machine) what I recall is the following in no specific order: 1. Some suggests this is a data collision - I don't subscribe to this theory. 2. Some suggests this is a timing issue - Some of this I accept but to a limited degree. 3. Some suggests the root cause is from battery operated devices due to the multiple retries - I don't subscribe to this theory. 4. Some suggests this is a programming issue - I agree poor programming from end users is one factor. 5. Some suggests this is X-10 being a possible culprit - I subscribe to this theory in a limited fashion. 6. Some suggests this is a power issue - I subscribe to this theory in a limited fashion. 7. Some suggests this is a noise issue - I subscribe to this theory in a limited fashion. 8. Some suggests the ISY is mishandling unknown data incorrectly - I subscribe to this theory in a limited fashion. 9. Some suggests this is a ALL ON command issued - I subscribe to this theory as being 98% likely. At the end of the day if nothing has changed and you enter the same exact door, window, etc. Why then does it not happen all the time?? I believe if all 8 of these possibilities are reviewed and action taken a person should be able to negate this problem all together. Or at the very least make it happen at will . . . To date, I have not read of one person providing evidence where someone across the 49th parallel can reproduce, none.

Back in the day it was stated battery operated devices would not show a firmware version. Years later some magic was added that polled the battery operated devices to reflect what firmware was present. I had asked about this discrepancies over the years as HL2 clearly was able to provide the same information. I have half a dozen sensors in this state and all operate just fine. I wouldn't worry too much about the v.00 because it wasn't an issue five years ago before the *Magic* was unleashed upon us all! [emoji47][emoji55] Ideals are peaceful - History is violent

A few of us have noted a discrepancy of how some devices either operate or function. Or some features being added or deprecated all mid stream with the same firmware level. This was prominently seen in the Leak Sensor . . . I am not surprised to read two people with similar firmware with two different experiences. Failing adding back the unit again using the latest ISY 4.2.30 firmware. If the unit still does not show the 3 nodes I would hard reset the device to ensure its OK from that perspective. Once hard reset and added back using the auto feature if its still the same (only 2 nodes) then its likely your device was sold prior to the inclusion of the extra heart beat feature.

That was the old name of the unit. Did you use auto or manually select it from the list? Ideals are peaceful - History is violent

No worries make sure you have the instructions in front of you. This single device has to be the most complicated hard reset process Smartlabs has ever released! [emoji35] Ideals are peaceful - History is violent

That's awesome, and all this time I thought only my daughter was giving me SASS! *You Sassing me?*

We are all guilty of this sort of thing. But, after having to scale a 25 foot ladder in the dead of winter while it was -45'C. You really do start to learn what NOT to do! These are just best practices to make your life easier and safer during those older years. Any time you break past 10 feet on a ladder is something you really have to consider. At 16 feet if you fell down on a hard surface and depending upon how you landed it could be very dangerous. At 25 feet breaking your hip, leg, arm, or even your neck is possible. Glad you got it all sorted out . . .

Factory Reset All settings, links and scenes will be erased. 1) Press and hold Micro module Set button until it beeps LED will start blinking green 2) Press and hold Micro module Set button until it beeps again LED will start blinking red 3) Press and hold Micro module Set button until it beeps a third time LED will start blinking green 4) Slowly tap Micro module Set button 3 times LED will start double-blinking green 5) Press and hold Micro module Set button. Do not let go. Micro module will begin to emit a long beep Page 13 of 21 2443-222/2443-422/2443-522 - Rev: 1/21/2014 8:28 AM 6) After beep stops, release Micro module Set button After a few seconds, the LED will flash white Micro module will double-beep and the load will turn on

This is why every new Insteon device I receive I place a small piece of clear tape over the address. Sometimes depending upon orientation or if the label mounted on the back I always make a new label and affix it to the body somewhere else. The last step is I always take a picture of the device and the final installation location. I did this for insurance reasons and for long term look up if trouble shooting was going to be needed.

In this case we all know it has nothing to do with micro fissures. Any time you have cheap capacitors such as found in the PLM normal heat simply dries out the dialectic compounds inside. Now, add in some serious heat like an attic it won't take very long for the PLM to show failure. Back in the day cold solder joints were one of the major weaknesses due to hand assembly. Now given surface mount technology and wave soldering much of this is behind us. At the end of the day regardless of the technology every manufacture has a specified operating range which needs to be followed if the longest life and operation is to be seen.

ErikK, I truly laughed my *** off from reading that! Thanks for bringing back some great memories from back in the day!

I was thinking if you did a scene test and ran a level 3 log assuming it was linked via the ISY it should show up.

I just thought you weren't suppose to feed them?

I've not seen the exact issue you describe but have seen similar odd issues when trouble shooting. Perfect example is if you were using a newer release of Beta firmware and later rolled back to a earlier release. This could cause program related issues. I saw this when UDI was just releasing a new feature for the *From Sender* portion. I rolled back to another release and all of my e-mails were either blank or had odd titles. When the Energy Module was updated to support more granular power values from 500 - 1000 watts. One Beta release had a bug in it and when I rolled back a value of say 501 watts, returned a value of NULL. This caused the program to either not complete or reacted in a very strange manner. As new features are released its important to keep track of what attributes are being applied to the programs and scenes. For example if a new device is being added because the signature / profile did not exist prior. The system does not always alert the user of this issue because it has no reference to it. So, in simple terms anything that is software based can at times become corrupted, act erratic, or not operate at all.

I'm sorry but I had to read this like ten times and it didn't make any sense to me. 1. If you turn the fan at the (switch) does it turn on & off, Yes / No? 2. If you turn the fan from the Admin Console (ISY) does it turn on & off, Yes / No? 3. When the the exhaust fan is not on is the Micro Relay LED always lit? Yes / No? 4. Which sense wire have you used to connect to the exhaust fan? 5. Can you provide the make and model of the exhaust fan for our review. 6. Have you hard reset the Micro Relay? If not please do so and report success / failure.

I don't pretend to know how hot it gets in Florida but have to guess its hotter than where I live in the North Pole. But, as you can see in the summer even in my area the attic space gets extremely hot! This is what one hot August day looked like up there: 52.26'C / 126.07'F This is what it looks like in the dead of winter up there before the wind chill.

If these devices are really up in the attic don't expect any long term service out of them. I would highly suggest you move the PLM into a conditioned space because the capacitors in that unit will dry out and cause untold grief! Any electronic exposed to extreme heat such as an attic will not live very long.

70 years old? [emoji47][emoji50] It's safe to say you're the shining example of how learning is never ending! I salute you and look forward to breaking 70 when it comes upon me! [emoji4][emoji5]️ Ideals are peaceful - History is violent

What, use magic [emoji45][emoji5]️

Can you expand on that line of thought? Normally once I have set it up there isn't any regular house cleaning associated with the programs. If you're speaking about how I manage the naming convention to keep it visually trackable. I first ensure any Integer variable is listed as i.what ever, State variables are listed a s.what ever. From there program folders in my use case is based on devices in the network. Such as Insteon, Autelis, GEM, Dash Box, etc Some programs are in obvious folders because they just make sense to me at least such as: e-mail alerts, timers, schedules, HVAC, Temperature, etc. Following a naming convention and basic schema is important visually because at first glance it should just make sense to you. While others I know use some kind of magic hap hazard approach of what ever came in their head!

Thanks for taking the time to let us all know what possible features and enhancements comes with the premium bus protocols etc. I agree some aspects perhaps in the advanced section may never really be used or realized by the end user. But, some others offer tremendous insight and operations of the HVAC system. I know most of us fall into the 2% of the general public who really want to know. Because the reality is 99% of the general public just want it to operate and don't really care how it does it. So long as the house is hot / cool no one really cares in the big picture. For some of us we like to tinker and be a little more interactive with our sub systems. Perhaps its because we have been limited our entire life in different areas who knows! But, I must affirm my views again sometimes things should just be simple and rock solid. The countless millions of homes impacted by a slight surge / spike that takes out a AC / Furnace, HWT, etc. In my mind is asinine and absolutely unacceptable on any level. Our reliance on making everything so digital with out any for thought about long term service life and reliability is truly astounding on ever level. In 2015 with proven manufacturing techniques and processes in place there is no reason something can't operate and last forever. In my real world definition *Forever* is 25 years. If a product makes it to 10 years I will give them a pass. If they can't even make 5 years its a POS in my view and books. The reality is the general public has forced and made every vendor to produce on the lowest dollar and hence why cheap parts rated to last one year is prevalent. This is why as high tech as I am in my life, home, and environment. I always balance that high tech with dumb! If I find something that simply just operates and is low on energy, offers features, and has possible expandability and operates in the North Pole weather. I buy 2-3-4 of them . . . I believe what shocks a lot of folks who engage me directly about certain aspects of my home and its HVAC or other electrical components. They are shocked to find out some systems are not automated or tied to any HA systems. This is because in my eyes too much potential for failure and opportunity for security breach. Never mind the predictable costs down the road to replace such complex components.