paulbates

I had a hub and PLM for a while. It was nice to have the insteon app to control things and have easy alerts for things like the garage door. However, its can be a lot of work and you can trip yourself up as mentioned. The "Add devices found in links and keep existing links" method of adding devices must be avoided. The ISY will see the links to the other hub as a device and try to add. That can leave a trail of unusable links in devices. When you use the other ISY methods to add devices, existing links are deleted, including links to the other Hub. You have to add devices in the right order; to the ISY first, and the other hub / PLM second.

There is a relatively simple addition to to an iolinc, called a 'buzzlinc' here. No voice, just a buzz. I've given thought to that as well for certain sensed actions, but buzzing or flashing would create annoyance here either way.

More of a twitter lurker, but I made an exception in this case. Thanks for the idea Jay

Jeff You might have to move your ISY with the PLM, it depends how far away the desk is from the electrical panel. That means running an Ethernet line to where the panel is so the ISY can connect in. I would plan this one, and weigh how big of a project it is. Since you indicate everything works for you, it may not be worth it if means a lot of cost or time to get the wire there. If you decide to do it, the phase coupler goes in a box on the panel and gets 2 new breakers. I made it a double gang box and added an outlet that connected on one of the breakers. That made it a dedicated/isolated circuit, and I plug my PLM in right there on the bridge. I would suggest going ahead with the surge protector and the signalinc.

Hi Jeff- The basic "infrastructure" list for me is: Locate the PLM right at the panel if at all possible. giving it the most likely coverage on any circuit Whole house power surge protector. It keeps power spikes from damaging my HA investment. The signalinc phase coupler in the panel to bridge. It allows insteon signals to travel directly between phases. Its proven valuable to my setup I use filter things that cause problems. If something stops working after I put in a new computer, TV, etc, I get a filter at that point. Not sure how many of your devices are dual band. Its seems more are coming as dual band. I try to have phase couplers or dual band devices on each floor and with a clear path to at least one other dual band device or phase coupler. Paul

Joe I think its more about growth. If you believe that your requirements will stay simple, the hub is certainly cost effective. Depending on the vacation home, I would start to think about leak sensors, thermostat, alarm, etc. I know I start out meaning simple, but end up someplace else Paul

Thank you, very interesting approach and things to think about as I look to improve my setup. Bill- I use tipping bucket mode and count up .01" per iolinc "click", which is how its configured out of the box. When it gets to 11 (.11"), that sets a state variable that indicates the next cycle can be skipped. Mine is on a old flaky iolinc that doesn't always respond to queries, but very faithfully 'clicks away' when its raining. I recommend the hydreon's tipping bucket mode, and an iolinc. Tipping bucket mode gives a real datapoint to manage / log irrigation from. While the ezflora has a raingauge breakout kit that can be used with the hydreon's irrigation mode (emulates the cork sensor's behavior), I don't recommend it. The ezflora will stop responding to zone commands whenever its rain sensor inputs are connected. It also means locating the hydreon near the ezflora for wiring, which I didn't want to do. For other Wx data, I use the climate module and Detroit Metro Airport (DTW) Wx station. Its ok for temp and wind values, and because its from an airport, I don't worry about it being "down". Paul

Agreed, thank you Bill. This post interests me because I want to further maximize water savings this summer. I don't want to set up a full Wx station, but Wx reported rainfall has been an issue, causing over and under watering. I'm getting the actual rainfall on my property via the hydreon rain sensor and iolinc, and I've continued to write my own irrigation routines around it, as it is super accurate. That with a model like Bill's or zerop's would make it better. zerop, could you share your programs as well? The programs can be copied / pasted in and tagged as code as Bill did. Paul

Joe The Hub is not very capable, especially when you compare it to the ISY. I would be sure you know what you are getting: very basic schedules, very basic notifications and remote control. The scheduling function is self contained locally. The schedules should work without the cloud. At least they did on Hub 1. My guess is that you are interested in the remote control and notifications part, The remote control and notifications won't work without the cloud. The hub will not work standalone with SmartenIt products like the EzFlora or EzIO series of products. It can, if you run a 24x7 PC at your vacation home with Houselinc. Having the hub on your home network should work, but per Stu's comments, mixing scenes and devices across an ISY and a Hub is a slippery slope. If you were wanting to learn the hub at home first, I would suggest complete isolation of devices between the two. Either set up extra devices on the Hub that you aren't using and are not defined in the ISY. Or for efficiency and learning, define the new devices you plan to take to the vacation home on the hub before you go the first time, then mark the devices, pack it all up and take it with you. And don't attempt to add the hub to the ISY. Paul

Totally agree. When I first set my ISY up, coming from a different package, they set up time that worked with me, remoted in and got me working, as well as educating me on things I needed to know as a migrating user. This dedication is very important to me. Could not say it any better.

Its hard for me to say "super easy" and HA in the same sentence. Learning, testing and technical knowledge, both past and ongoing, are required. The best example I can think of is external internet access to the ISY. What is desired makes it seem super easy, but its not. In my past jobs, I've had set up workstations and firewalls. I had to learn about IPv4 address, subnets, NAT, DNS, Domain services (dndyns) etc. When it was time for me to set that up in my ISY, I knew what to do. However, if I had not brought that learning with me to my iSY, setting up remote access would be very confusing and frustrating because I would not understand the fundamentals. Internet setup is one example and one topic. To implement different types of HA projects, basic generalist skills needed include: Construction, especially electrical programming & logic networking Electronics and signaling Individual HA technologies (Insteon, Zwave, 1wire, ...) HVAC (and your individual HVAC system type and its wiring) Irrigation (and your individual system and its wiring) Security (and your individual system and its wiring) Where knowledge on one of these topics is absent, dedication and patience is needed to use this board, or other resources, to get where you need to be. Another good example is HVAC. HVAC systems are different and are wired in different ways. Not all thermostats are the same. You really need to know before picking any thermostat off of a web page. Per other comments above, just about any HA project has the potential to be daunting. Before deciding to jump into any one project, ask "what do I need know about this?" Leave time time to "bench test" and experiment with each project before setting it loose on the other residents of the house. It makes sure it works the way you want, and provides you with additional valuable learning: what it really does vs what you intended for it to do. I learned this one the hard way when I first started. Paul

Teken There is an instance of the device definitions in the hub and one in the cloud. There are some subtle differences on being local to define devices and set them up (at least in hub 1). I agree that the apple vs android makes no sense, but there is a way to eliminate that, have them log in at: https://connect.insteon.com/Account/Loginand see if they can see it there. If its not visible at the cloud account, then somehow its known locally but not on the cloud (and not a problem with mobile apps). Its been over a year since I used it, but I think that the credentials are the same ones you set up in the mobile app. I believe your last advice is best. Delete, and re-add it, see what happens. Somehow the cloud account lost track. Paul

I would add a wait statement as the first line. How long does it take HVAC to cool the house within normal operating parameters? 15 minutes, half an hour worst case? If it's sitting in the wait statement, and the temperature drops in the time expected, the program will stop executing. However, if it goes past the wait, then it will take action Paul

There is this app from a newer ISY developer. I think local lan connectivity is still required to use it, but he supports apple watch. And mobilinc now supports it. Its probably worth experimenting to see what works. Per others' comments, you won't get far with actual automation with the insteon hub alone. Imagine the ISY with only the device tab; no programs (other than simple timers), and no modules. Just turn things on and off with your phone. There is no comparison in functionality between the two. It is possible to add a hub on to a network with an ISY, but it's a very slippery slope to maintain it. You could certainly try it out first. I tried it for a while and then stopped, its more difficult to maintain in my experience. From what I know, UDI is looking at more advanced functionality in V5 firmwares that will allow network to network connections to other devices and working to participate in the newer HA standards. Its not clear at this time what that means for the apple watch. A number of the big players like apple and google are wild cards, due to exclusivity and unreasonable restrictions in their contracting.

I've received this message on different ages and types of devices during and after upgrading to a newer PLM and also upgrading to a newer ISY firmware. Both during the upgrade, and with subsequent new device adds afterwards, specific devices returned the "cannot determine insteon engine". However I was able to add them. The fix was to add the devices by putting the ISY in 'linking mode' and pressing the set button on the affected devices for 3 seconds, and then returning to the ISY for the completion of adding them. All devices with the "cannot determine insteon engine" message added immediately and worked perfectly after being added this way. It won't take long to see if this is will work for you. I do not have an explanation on why this is. Paul

NP, glad you figured it out. I had thoughts about a manual key for skipping, but no one else would think about pressing it to skip and I travel. I use the hydreon rain sensor (~$60), an IOlinc and a couple of programs to skip days based on how much it tells me it did rain on my property. Its all automatic at this point, which is good as I travel. Our water is getting crazy expensive, and its payed a good chunk of itself and the iolinc off last fall. Paul

I'm always one for a good metaphor / simile, and definitely bow to this one. LOL!!!

have a program check for the request "down" If the door is requested to go down (key, switch, whatever) Wait (for reasonable door down time) Run if program "door down" "Door down" program If door sensor is (in wrong state) notify / whatever other steps This does not address using the opener's button in the garage.

Its fair to say that ROI from all HA related expenses vs hard cost savings is unlikely; if saved electricity is considered the primary cost driver. The initial cost of devices, counting all / every cost, the cost of mistakes, even the cost to run it. I've guessed that all my insteon devices, power supplies, rpis, etc, are burning more than 100 watts, 24x7. If you are losing that many devices, I would consider a whole house power conditioner, they cost around $75. Power surges can stress and damage capacitors, which are a common failure mode theme for insteon devices... and sounds in the ballpark for the ezfloras you described in another thread today. There have been some arrows for sure. And if it were possible to send messages back in time, a number of decisions I would have made differently. For me, the urge to "noodle" and problem solve is too strong, I like it. I don't actually "need" any of it, but I enjoy all of it. Probably the biggest thing I've had to learn to balance is the difference between "Can I automate it?" and "Should I automate it?" (With all deference to "If you ain't broke, Automate it! )

Hmmm, fair enough. That does sound like end of life. There have been a few posts in the last few months around the advantages of ezfloras. The benefits are the features like zone "dead man" switches, previous zones are turned off when the next one is. And because they are SmartenIT devices and use their own insteon command structure, they are immune to the "all on". I think it would be a lot of work, programming wise and mounting, to switch to something like the EZIO8SA. I know the short life of some of these insteon devices is annoying, and they are expensive. However my plan is two replace mine (I have 2 as well) if / when they die. I put mine in in 2011, they continue (knock on wood) to work ok. Just getting ready to start them up for this season.

Did they fail at the same time and the zone on ezflora 2 is out as well? That seems unusual. Can you describe what the ezflora does? LEDs on, off or flashing? Can you hear "clicking" from them when activate the zones from ISY? Its possible that maybe a master valve, transformer or some other sprinkler, component may have failed.

Something else that causes these delays is CFL light bulbs. Those can add a second or more and make different virtual circuits visibly look out of sync.

Hi- Key pad keys are a special case and need to be controlled by scenes. You'll need to create a scene with the key in it, and turn the scene on and off with programs: Set myscene off Paul

ES1400 Lee captured it perfectly. There always some risk involved. However, if you look at "the norm" here, people upgrade their devices regularly to get the latest and greatest, or to address particular problems. Part of "getting there" is to review the Software Releases & Updates section of the board as recommended by Stu and Xathros. Releases and the process are documented well in the posts. Here a couple of approaches for you to consider 1) Wait for a version of firmware on the Software Releases & Updates section of the board to become an Official Release,and plan an upgrade around that. Official Releases are indicated in the forum on the thread for each version. A message will appear along the top of your Admin console when there is a newer, official release than what you are running. Wait for that. This approach keeps you reasonably current, and makes sure that others have tried the mid releases along the way and identified known problems. If you are having no problems, and are not looking for new functionality that you've read about, this is a reasonable approach to keep you current. 2) Adopt an non official release. If you are having a specific problem and a non-official release fixes it, or, you need new functionality in a non-official release, manually upgrade to one of these. Only use this method of you really need it, and then, wait a week or so for others to try it and report in. I would recommend 1) as a normal practice. And as Lee indicates, no one can deliver a perfect upgrade scenario, It doesn't exist. However, having had my ISY for 8 months and upgraded maybe 4 times, I've not had any unrecoverable problems. UDI provides the proper level of change controls and versioning to my satisfaction, and they are always active on the board or available via support to help me out. You'll need to find your comfort level between these two scenarios. Also, backups have not failed me. when you make configuration, hw or ISY program changes, take a back up. Paul

Here are a couple of alternatives to consider There is isycontrol from automation shack / io_guy. Simple to set up and use. There is the Home Automation Dashboard from Benoit Mercier. Is a set of files that get copied to your ISY's root web server page. It makes nice looking webpages that will run on browsers. It can be customized if you are comfortable with ajax html.