TJF1960

Michael, Great Job. I am looking forward to more of these! Thanks again, Tim

Hi Rich, I started out using the X10 motion sensors, then bought an Insteon motion detector to check it out. After playing with it and testing it, I was sold. I have since replaced them all and added even more Insteon motion sensors and have had very good results. I use one in the driveway, entry hall, family room (which also covers the kitchen area), bathrooms, work room, garage and soon in the back yard and side yard. I use mine, of course to turn lights on and off, but also to test for occupancy for other programs. For instance if there is no motion for a certain period of time in the family room and the lights or ceiling fans are on, they will turn off. Under the cabinet lights in the kitchen will turn on to 30% at night, but turn off if no motion is detected for 30 minutes, but the minute motion is detected the lights will turn on to 30%. Yes, the Insteon motion detector can be programmed so that it will only send on commands, which is done by a jumper setting. Other jumper settings include: motion sensor sensitivity, LED status indicator disable and night only mode. Thru the ISY you can also program the on time and the LED status indicator brightness level and the ambient light level for night motion activation. Tim

I originally posted this in “Questions and Answers and it was suggest I post in “How to and Tutorials†so here it is. In my garage I have a light controlled by a Icon 2876SB in wall relay switch and a 2420M motion sensor. I wanted the light to turn on as soon as there was motion in the garage and only at night. I didn’t want the 1-2 second delay caused by the motion triggering a program in ISY and then the program turning on the in wall switch. I also wanted the ISY to see any motion night or day for other programs, like occupancy or the addition of a chime module or cameras and such. I found by setting up the components as detailed below that I was able to accomplish the above. 1) MS Jumper 1 (Sensitivity) and Jumper 2 (Disable LED) can be set to whatever you prefer. Jumper 3 (Night Only Mode) is set off. Jumper 4 (On-Only Mode) set to off as well, however I believe it would still work fine you would just have to have a program to turn off the light after a predetermined time. 2) If the device to ultimately be linked with a MS is a Dimmer (like the Icon 2876DB or the KPL 2486D then add the device as normal. Unfortunately, right now, in step 4, only dimmer type devices are selectable, no relay type devices are listed. I am told this is a bug in version 2.7.5 (I am not sure about earlier versions) and will be fixed. So, for now, if the device is a switch (relay style like the Icon 2876SB or the KPL 2486S) then when adding the device into ISY enter the device address then select the part number of the “Dimmer†counterpart. For instance if installing a 2876S in wall relay switch then enter the 2876DB as the part number so ISY thinks the new device is a dimmer. This way the ISY is tricked into thinking the device is a dimmer. Or if installing the 2486S KPL relay style then select the 2486D dimmer instead. 3) Create a new Scene in ISY with the MS (which will be added as a “Controller) and the new device using the normal procedures, except that the device being added to the scene needs to be added as a “Controller†not a “responderâ€. Proper results will not be obtained if the device is added as a responder. 4) Create a new program in ISY specifying what ever conditions are needed. Under actions, select Adjust Scene. In the drop down menu for “In Scene†select the MS in the scene (not the MS Scene, but just the MS in the scene). In the drop down menu for “Set†select the new device just added to the new scene. For the “On Level†select any level if the device is truly a dimmer, or select 0 or 100% if the device is really a relay type switch. When the new program(s) is/are run and become true the on level for the MS will automatically change to the desired level in the program(s). Here is an example of 2 programs I am currently using: If Program 'Time Sunrise-10 to Sunset+10' is True Then In Scene 'Garage MS-Sensor' Set 'Garage KPL 1 Lite' 0% (On Level) Else - No Actions - (To add one, press 'Action') (The above program becomes true at 10 minutes to Sunrise and becomes false at 10 minutes after sunset. So during the day when the motion sensor is activated the garage light will not turn on). If Program 'Time Sunset+10 to Sunrise-10' is True Then In Scene 'Garage MS-Sensor' Set 'Garage KPL 1 Lite' 100% (On Level) Else - No Actions - (To add one, press 'Action') (The above program becomes true at 10 minutes after Sunset and false at 10 minutes before sunrise. So during the night when the motion sensor is activated the garage light will turn on). So now when motion is detected in the garage at night the motion detector will turn the light on immediately and will stay on for as long as there is motion. And during the day the ISY is able to run other programs based on motion in the garage as well. So far I have used this set up in the garage and master bathroom and it has worked flawlessly. In the master bathroom I am actually using a real dimmer, so I was able to have the lights turn on with motion to 75% after dusk, then at 10:00pm they would only turn on to 30% with motion. But with a tap of the wall switch they would turn on full brightness if we want, turning off when motion has stopped. Then from sunrise to sunset they will not turn on. But again, the ISY knows when there is motion in the bathroom, night or day and the lights at night turn on immediately when triggered by the MS. Since I am still new to the ISY and Insteon I would appreciate any comments or suggestions or problems that may arise with this setup. Thank you all for your help, and I hope this helps others. Tim

Hello, Sorry to jump in but I noticed that when I added KPL’s and a couple of new Icon 2876D and 2876S’s and 2420M MS to the system running 2.7.5 and the version was also listed as v00 on all of them. Just tried linking another 2876S via the address and same situation. Removed that device from the system and tried linking as you suggested Michel and it came up as v.36 Will that mean we have to remove all the devices and link them in to get the version listed? If so, is there an easy way to do it without having an extra KPL? Are there any problems which may occur if we leave it as is? I also noticed after replacing the dimmer switch that all the programs referencing that dimmer listed “Not Specified.†Here is an example: If Program 'Time Sunrise-10 to Sunset+10' is True And Status <Not Specified> > 1% And Status 'MB Bath MS-Sensor' is Off And Control <Not Specified> is not switched Off And the last thing I noticed after replacing the dimmer switch is that “Adjust Scene†programs loose track of the device also: Then In Scene 'MB Bath MS-Sensor' Set 'null' 0% (On Level) Thanks, Tim

I have continued to mess around with the motion sensor settings and ISY settings. I think I finally have come up with a solution. But first, to restate what I was looking for: In my garage I have a light controlled by a Icon 2876SB in wall relay switch and a 2420M motion sensor. I wanted the light to turn on as soon as there was motion in the garage and only at night. I didn’t want the 1-2 second delay caused by the motion triggering a program in ISY and then the program turning on the in wall switch. I also wanted the ISY to see any motion night or day for other programs, like occupancy or the addition of a chime module or cameras and such. I found by setting up the components as detailed below that I was able to accomplish the above. 1) MS Jumper 1 (Sensitivity) and Jumper 2 (Disable LED) can be set to whatever you prefer. Jumper 3 (Night Only Mode) is set off. Jumper 4 (On-Only Mode) set to off as well, however I believe it would still work fine you would just have to have a program to turn off the light after a predetermined time. 2) If the device to ultimately be linked with a MS is a Dimmer (like the Icon 2876DB or the KPL 2486D then add the device as normal. Unfortunately , right now, in step 4, only dimmer type devices are selectable, no relay type devices are listed. So, if the device is a switch (relay style like the Icon 2876SB or the KPL 2486S) then when adding the device into ISY enter the device address then select the part number of the “Dimmer†counterpart. For instance if installing a 2876S in wall relay switch then enter the 2876DB as the part number so ISY thinks the new device is a dimmer. This way the ISY is tricked into thinking the device is a dimmer. Or if installing the 2486S KPL relay style then select the 2486D dimmer instead. 3) Create a new Scene in ISY with the MS (which will be added as a “Controller) and the new device using the normal procedures, except that the device being added to the scene needs to be added as a “Controller†not a “responderâ€. Proper results will not be obtained if the device is added as a responder. 4) Create a new program in ISY specifying what ever conditions are needed. Under actions, select Adjust Scene. In the drop down menu for “In Scene†select the MS in the scene (not the MS Scene, but just the MS in the scene). In the drop down menu for “Set†select the new device just added to the new scene. For the “On Level†select any level if the device is truly a dimmer, or select 0 or 100% if the device is really a relay type switch. When the new program(s) is/are run and become true the on level for the MS will automatically change to the desired level in the program(s). Here is an example of 2 programs I am currently using: If Program 'Time Sunrise-10 to Sunset+10' is True Then In Scene 'Garage MS-Sensor' Set 'Garage KPL 1 Lite' 0% (On Level) Else - No Actions - (To add one, press 'Action') (The above program becomes true at 10 minutes to Sunrise and becomes false at 10 minutes after sunrise. So during the day when the motion sensor is activated the garage light will not turn on). If Program 'Time Sunset+10 to Sunrise-10' is True Then In Scene 'Garage MS-Sensor' Set 'Garage KPL 1 Lite' 100% (On Level) Else - No Actions - (To add one, press 'Action') (The above program becomes false at 10 minutes to Sunrise and true at 10 minutes after sunrise. So during the night when the motion sensor is activated the garage light will turn on). So now when motion is detected in the garage at night the motion detector will turn the light on immediately and will stay on for as long as there is motion. And during the day the ISY is able to run other programs based on motion in the garage while not turning the light on. So far I have used this set up in the garage and master bathroom and it has worked flawlessly for 2 days. In the master bathroom I am actually using a real dimmer, so I was able to have the lights turn on with motion to 75% after dusk, then at 10:00pm they would only turn on to 30% with motion. But with a tap of the wall switch they would turn on full brightness if we want, turning off when motion has stopped. Then from sunrise to sunset they will not turn on. But again, the ISY know when there is motion in the bathroom, night or day and the lights at night turn on immediately when triggered by the MS. Since I am still new to the ISY and Insteon I would appreciate any comments or suggestions or problems that may arise with this setup. Thank you all for your help, Tim

Hi Michel, Yes, thats right, the drop down menu only contains dimmer switches. It does not contain any in wall relay switches like the2876SB.

I have been messing around with the ms and found an interesting operation. I have a ms in a scene with a KPL relay switch. I linked the KPL (local load) in the scene as a controller (instead of a responder) and of course the motion sensor is linked as a controller as well. In the scene I can adjust the on level for the scene to 0 and when the ms triggers, the lights connected to the KPL do not turn on. When the level is put back to 100 the lights will turn on and off with the ms. The only thing is that the "Adjust Scene" drop down menu doesn’t contain any relay switches, or scenes containing relay switches only dimmers. Would it be possible to incorporate scenes for relay switches or will this open up possible problems? Thanks, Tim

I was wondering if it would be possible, now or in the future, to temporarily unlink a device via a program from a scene containing a 2420M motion detector? I know that with the scene link broken the signal links would probably retransmit the on/off commands from the ms until they timed out, but it wouldn’t really hurt anything. The reason I ask is because I have a few ms in various locations which are set to detect motion all the time for various reasons. Then at night those ms will trigger programs to turn lights on and off. But it would be really nice if the ms could be linked to the lights directly thru a scene so the lights would turn on faster at night. Then during the day a program would run at specified times to unlink the device controlled by the ms from the scene. That way the ms could still control other things its linked to during the day, but wont turn the lights on. Then at night its back to normal. Any and all suggestions are welcome. Thanks, Tim

I have a 2420M motion sensor linked to a Icon in wall dimmer switch in our master bathroom. The motion sensors “on level†is set to 30% while the local on level of the dimmer is 75%. Those are the only 2 items in the scene. I have them linked in this case because I need the faster turn on time in this location. I just came across a thread that described using "Adjust Scene" and I thought this would be cool. It could be set up so that from sunset to 10:00pm the dimmer could turn on to 75% when motion was detected. Then from 10:00PM to sunrise when motion is detected the dimmer could turn on at 30%. Then from sunrise to sunset the dimmer could be set to 0% ( lights turning on in the daytime). I have been attempting to get it to work with this scene. But the dimmer always turns on at 30% when activated by the motion. The on level of the scene in the ISY window does indicate the proper on level percentage as is specified in the programs command line but the dimmer always turns on at 30% regardless. Is this because the ISY cannot communicate to the motion to change the on level without putting the motion into setup mode? Is there any way around this without waiting for a program to turn the dimmer on from the ISY?

So as an example would aLf want his Home Folder condition to be: If ( Status 'GAR KPL H' is On And Status 'MBR KPL H' is On And Status 'Occupied On/OFF APL' is On ) Or ( Control 'GAR KPL H' is Switched On Or Control 'MBR KPL H' is Switched On Or Control 'Occupied On/OFF APL' is Switched On ) Then Allow the programs in this folder to run. That way if the status part of the program is true when the Clock schedule trigger occurs the clock program will run. And if the statement wasnt true when the schedule trigger occured but one of the KPL's were switched on during the clock schedule time period, then the program would run. Is this correct?

Thank you very much for taking the time to check out the other stations. I am sure I will be able to work with one of them. As always, you guys are the best. Thanks again, Tim

In the last 24 hr period there were only 2 WB errors in the log: 0 CLI-WBu Sat 06/06/2009 09:30:23 AM System -140002 0 CLI-WBu Sun 06/07/2009 09:32:55 AM System -140002 I have tried 3 different stations, all seem to be as slow in updating. Does the log only record errors as far as the WB is concerned or is it supposed to record all successful polling as well?

Hi Rand, Right, there are no Next Scehduled Run times listed. What I was meaning was it appears that the ISY is not updating the WB data every 2 minutes. Yesterday it was updating about every hour. Right now my time is 5:55PM and the Last Run Time listed is 3:00:23PM so its been almost 3 hrs since it last updated. Would you consider that normal? Thanks, Tim

I have found in the "program summery" tab that my WB programs are all last run 1 hour apart. One of my test programs is: If Module 'Climate' Temperature >= 52 °F And Module 'Climate' Temperature <= 69 °F Then - No Actions - (To add one, press 'Action') Else - No Actions - (To add one, press 'Action') The summery lists the last run time as 7:01 pm, them the next time is 8:01 pm and so on. My question is whether this program is run when the data changes at the WB station or is it the WB module or is the program run by ISY every hour. Could it be that the WB station only updates about once an hour? Btw, I have the ISY set poll every 2 minutes. Thanks, Tim

As I understand it when the ISY-99 reboots and the “Catch up schedules at Restart†box is checked in the configuration tab, any programs with “if†statements that are true will run? I have at a program that at 3:30 AM sets the coffee pot on. Within the program is a timer which turns the pot off, so there is not an end time in the If statement. So when the ISY reboots the coffee pot always turns on, regardless of the time of the reboot. Is it because there is not an end time in the If statement which will cause the program to run at startup? If I go to “Program Summary†tab I can right click on the program and select “Disable Run at StartUp.†Will that prevent that program from running at reboot even though the if statement is true? If so will I have to go to “Program Details†and enable the check box for that program to run its normal daily schedule, or is it just disabled for startups? I noticed if you select Enable at Startup an “On†will display in the column for that program, but there is no positive indication that the “Disable†is selected. I thought perhaps an “Off†would be displayed. Which is what led me to these questions. As always, thanks for your time, Tim

There are 3 nodes all the same address with no suffix for the 6 button device. Thanks, Tim

Hi Michel, Interesting, all the address locations are only 6 digit, with no suffix. For example the my KPL labeled Entry KPL (the one missing 2 buttons) shows the address: 05.15.67 for each of the 3 buttons listed. But in the topology it lists the addresses as: 05.15.67.1, 05.15.67.3, 05.15.67.4 and so on until the last one is .6 None of the KPL buttons listed in the ISY have a suffix! But it seems to me when I added the last KPL over the weekend I remember seeing the suffix 1, A, B, C and D at the end of the address. I am not sure exactly what happened or when. I havent had any problems or quirks I can think of, everything seems to have been running pretty smoothly with the system. I have been running 2.7.4 for about 2 weeks. Please let me know what else I can do or try. Thanks, Tim

Sorry, I have not been able to figure out what you are asking me to do. Can you give me a little detail? Also, for what it is worth, I noticed that one of the KPL Buttons which is missing is still listed in a scene. Thanks, Tim

I just had the same thing happen to my ISY today. I deleted one KPL button from a scene , that is when I noticed that the KPL button was not listed in the device list column. I also noticed 1 KPL button which is used to set a folder true or false is also missing. "C" & "D" buttons are missing from 1 6 button KPL. The rest of the KPL's are listed, so far. I generated a topology and the buttons are listed there. I am running 2.7.4 and the KPL is 2486D v.2C Any suggestions on getting them back? Thanks in advance.

It looks like even though this motion sensor uses a relay to switch the load on and off it has some voltage on the red lead which will bleed off when hooked to a sizeable enough load (like a flood light), but the load on the yellow wire from the 2475S2 isn’t large enough to bleed that voltage down. I wonder, if you were to wire in a small night light, a 4 watt bulb, from the yellow and red connection to neutral, if that would take care of the problem? The 4 watt bulb would probably be enough to drain the voltage presented on the red wire of the motion enough so that the 2475S2 would then see a voltage closer to 0 when the motion is off. I am not sure why there is voltage on the red wire when the motion is off. Perhaps there is a capacitor across the relay contacts to help control contact pitting, or to help prevent voltage spikes from the contact closing and opening. If that is the case, there may be many motion detectors which might present this same problem. Please keep us posted on your progress. Tim

I installed 2.7.4, cleared the Java cache and still do not have the Electricity Tab in Config., System and Climate are the only two tabs. "About" shows 2.7.4 and Weather Info. There is not an Electricity option on the ISY's HTML page either. What can I try next? Thanks, Tim

Great, I will implement this and add this program to Run at Startup. Thank you very much for your help. Tim

Rand, Thank you for your valuable suggestions. I will try to keep it simple with programs. I do have many folders to try and keep programs organized. It can get overwhelming in the Program Summary tab though! That’s good to know. I thought the Wait action did consume processor cycles. One thing I liked about using the Last Run was my concern during a power outage, once power was restored the Last Run time was set in stone. How would a Wait action be handled once power is restored. In other words if the program is: (If conditions are met) turn on fan, Wait 10 minutes, Turn off fan, Wait 45 minutes, Run If. Will the ISY calculate the difference between the time the power went out to when power was back on and act based on that? Or will it run the program once the If statement is correct? Also if the fan was on during the power outage and an hour elapsed during the downtime, once power was restored will the ISY see that it should have shut the fan off during the outage and then shut the fan off, and then resume the program? Thanks, Tim

It is in the schedule section after the time selector drop down menus. It is the drop down selector for Time/Sunrise/Sunset/Last Run.

I would be glad to, I just hope I don’t embarrass myself with my newbie programming capabilities. So please just keep in mind I am still learning as you all review these. This is the main program and is titled "Fmly Rm Attic Fan" If Folder 'Vacation' is False And Program 'Fmly Rm Attic Fan Temp' is True And Program 'Fmly Rm Attic Fan Timer' is False Then Set Scene 'Fmly Rm Attic Fan Scene' On Wait 10 minutes Set Scene 'Fmly Rm Attic Fan Scene' Off Run Program 'Fmly Rm Attic Fan' (If) Else - No Actions - (To add one, press 'Action') This next program is titled "Fmly Rm Attic Fan Temp" and is used as a true / false statement. If the temperature is 80 degrees or hotter and the wind speed is 11 mph or less then the statement is true. [code]If Module 'Climate' Temperature >= 80 °F And Module 'Climate' Wind Speed Average <= 11 mph Then - No Actions - (To add one, press 'Action') Else - No Actions - (To add one, press 'Action') And the last program is titled "Fmly Rm Attic Timer" and is the Last Time Run which is also used as a true / false statement. If the last run time for the fan is between 5 seconds to 45 minutes then this statement is true. If From Last Run Time for 'Fmly Rm Attic Fan' + 5 seconds To Last Run Time for 'Fmly Rm Attic Fan' + 45 minutes (same day) Then - No Actions - (To add one, press 'Action') Else - No Actions - (To add one, press 'Action') Basically I want the fan to operate, when the temperature is in range for 10 minutes, then shut down for 45 minutes, then restart and continue this until the temperature is out of range. I know I could accomplish this using Wait and Repeat but I wanted to stay away from long Wait timers etc. and I thought this could be a nice clean way to go. I believe I can combine the “Fmly Rm Attic Fan Temp†program into the main program. I just haven’t done it yet. I likewise believe I could combine the “Fmly Rm Attic Fan Timer†into the main program as well, if it contained the variables (I believe this is the word to describe the < > = etc.) like the “Fmly Rm Attic Fan Temp†has. If my assumptions are correct, then these three programs could be combined into 1 simple little program. I have used the Last Run in several programs and it works really nicely as it is. But I have a few more that would benefit from the variables. Tim