paulbates Posted June 20, 2015 Share Posted June 20, 2015 That's just completely rude. I hate Java more than the next guy. But is allows cross-platform web development for the ISY in a manor that is not easily done otherwise. For UDI to upgrade to HMTL5 for the admin console to simply make it look prettier is ridiculous. To say you programmed in every language under the sun for 25 years and not understand the reasons UDI structured its coding the way they did makes no sense. What do you want - open coding in the unit that only true programmers could use, or the ability to write ISY code that will crash the unit in endless resource loops? I think I have to start only visiting the forum when I get a PM because the poor GUI, I hate Java, and HomeKit talk is killing me. Please let this stuff go. I find that most members translate passive aggressive comments like;"I'm looking at another solution" to "The ISY doesn't work for me and I really should find another". And there is no reason to respond to it. There are those that should move along, it will work out well for everybody. Your contributions and value to this community are too important to let this kind of thing get in the way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikes Posted June 22, 2015 Share Posted June 22, 2015 My intentions were not to ruffle feathers, there was more read into this than what I said.I did not complain about Java, say we need HTML 5 or a 'pretty' interface. I was stating that coding for the ISY is difficult, I believe that Insteon equipment is now overpriced and if the coding for these systems doesn't advance like the rest of the programming world I question it's future. And @larryliix, no I don't, I'm not a sports fan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
larryllix Posted June 22, 2015 Share Posted June 22, 2015 ... And @larryliix, no I don't, I'm not a sports fan. I have been to two hockey games (*yawn*) , one baseball game (*snore*), and never watched a team sports soap on TV yet, in my 63 years so you are in good company It's not like I didn't participate in non-commercial sports since 12 years old until 15 years ago and haven't seen the Harlem Globe Trotters. Try CQC for a complete HA system You will need a spare computer and $2999 USD to get the full software package with drivers. Small home packages from $500 up. HS3 for about $800+ IIRC. I tried it for a few months and you still see me here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michel Kohanim Posted June 22, 2015 Share Posted June 22, 2015 Hi Mikes, As always, we would love to hear all feedback regardless of content. This said it would have been more helpful had we been given suggestions rather than premonitions of our doom and gloom. Also, ISY also supports Z-Wave. I wish you all the best and would love to hear about your success stories. With kind regards, Michel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jwarner964 Posted June 23, 2015 Share Posted June 23, 2015 Hi all I have never. Have done any programming or coding of any kind and found that it took a little practice to catch on to programming the ISY didn't seem to bad I think it's great and can do just about anything Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikes Posted June 29, 2015 Share Posted June 29, 2015 Michel, I'm not predicting your future I'm simply saying that based on pricing and level of effort required to write an interface to the ISY I have to look at the other systems now. I don't know that there are any better alternatives or not. When I can get a Raspeberry PI or an Arduino for well less than the price on an on\off module something seems wrong here. On programming the ISY, SOAP and XML has went out the door and mobile is one big reason for this. These technologies suck battery with so much XML overhead, network bandwidth and horsepower required by the client, this is why REST and JSON is the norm now days. These were great technologies years ago but in today's mobile world they are going no where. A secondary benefit is ease of development effort. So I have one suggestion for ISY and that would be to put some more effort into the REST based JSON style interface to the ISY. In the little spare time I do have, I have started to code to the current ISY REST interface which is far easier than the WSDL\SOAP\XML mess that I had to jump thru hoops to get working with the Microsoft stack. If the ISY's REST interface used JSON rather than XML, had full ISY control and a bit better documentation I bet you might find a big increase in developer activity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ISYhbsh01 Posted June 30, 2015 Share Posted June 30, 2015 Michel, I'm not predicting your future I'm simply saying that based on pricing and level of effort required to write an interface to the ISY I have to look at the other systems now. I don't know that there are any better alternatives or not. When I can get a Raspeberry PI or an Arduino for well less than the price on an on\off module something seems wrong here. The price of an on/off module or any module is not determined by UDI. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michel Kohanim Posted June 30, 2015 Share Posted June 30, 2015 Mikes, JSON is definitely on our roadmap for 5.0. Also, nothing is wrong here. We have spent almost 10 years developing/refining/enhancing ISY firmware and in no way/shape and form apologize for charging for it, supporting it, and enhancing it. You are welcome to use an RPi and develop everything we have done on your own. With kind regards, Michel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G W Posted June 30, 2015 Share Posted June 30, 2015 Michel, I'm not predicting your future I'm simply saying that based on pricing and level of effort required to write an interface to the ISY I have to look at the other systems now. I don't know that there are any better alternatives or not. When I can get a Raspeberry PI or an Arduino for well less than the price on an on\off module something seems wrong here. On programming the ISY, SOAP and XML has went out the door and mobile is one big reason for this. These technologies suck battery with so much XML overhead, network bandwidth and horsepower required by the client, this is why REST and JSON is the norm now days. These were great technologies years ago but in today's mobile world they are going no where. A secondary benefit is ease of development effort. So I have one suggestion for ISY and that would be to put some more effort into the REST based JSON style interface to the ISY. In the little spare time I do have, I have started to code to the current ISY REST interface which is far easier than the WSDL\SOAP\XML mess that I had to jump thru hoops to get working with the Microsoft stack. If the ISY's REST interface used JSON rather than XML, had full ISY control and a bit better documentation I bet you might find a big increase in developer activity. I don't know what tools or language you use to write code, bug XML is a very easy standard to work with. I use it daily and I don't have any of issues you are combining about. Gary Sent from my SM-N900P using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lilyoyo1 Posted July 7, 2015 Share Posted July 7, 2015 Michel, I'm not predicting your future I'm simply saying that based on pricing and level of effort required to write an interface to the ISY I have to look at the other systems now. I don't know that there are any better alternatives or not. When I can get a Raspeberry PI or an Arduino for well less than the price on an on\off module something seems wrong here. I'm not seeing where Insteon is overly expensive. Sure you can get an arduino board or RP and program them yourself to save money over an insteon device. You could also save money by doing alot of things yourself instead of having a mfg. build it for you. Insteon or any other HA device costs because the Mfg. is doing the work for you. When I look at the price of a decent dimmer, the added cost of being able to control it is worth it. Would I like it cheaper? Of course, but it's not like it's cost prohibitive. When I compare it to UPB (leviton), x10, zwave,etc. it's in the same ball park. X10 is a lot cheaper, but when you look at how it works and what it's capable of, you can see why. The rest of the protocols are all priced the same. There are some cheaper Zwave switches, but when your programs don't run properly because it's missing status or you can't add that no name manufacturer into your system, it makes you wish you had spent more. The really good Zwave stuff can be over $100.00 bucks. I look at it like my truck. If I wanted to be cheap, I would have gotten the base version (dummy switches) and called it a day. I could plug my phone into a jack to play music or use my bluetooth headset to talk. Instead, I added the options so that my phone connects automatically via bluetooth etc. (smart devices) and did the extra things that I want. Unfortunately you gotta pay to play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
larryllix Posted July 7, 2015 Share Posted July 7, 2015 Supply and demand and the capitalist way. X10 is a lot cheaper and I doubt any more goes into the manufacture of Insteon modules. People do not want X10 modules so the price is cheap and the engineering costs forgotten. If other systems lowered their price to match X10 Insteon would have to lower their prices also and could most likely afford to do it. Right now they can offer special sales, the sales gimmick to funnel more sales into slots when they want it for manufacturing management. If nobody would pay it the price would drop but we do, because we want it and that makes the value. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michel Kohanim Posted July 7, 2015 Share Posted July 7, 2015 Hi lilyoyo1, Yes, I totally agree! Hi larryllix, Precisely: as consumers we all choose what we are willing to pay for products and services. The freedom to choose or discard is what makes one company a great success, another a niche market item, and unfortunately most others bankrupt. And I, personally, love everything that comes with this liberty: I really hate asking for undeserved contributions and very much dislike to subsidize things that I don't like or have to by force. So, if INSTEON is too expensive or ISY is too cumbersome, thankfully there are many other choices! Thank you all for the lively discussion and excellent feedback. With kind regards, Michel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lilyoyo1 Posted July 7, 2015 Share Posted July 7, 2015 Supply and demand and the capitalist way. X10 is a lot cheaper and I doubt any more goes into the manufacture of Insteon modules. People do not want X10 modules so the price is cheap and the engineering costs forgotten. If other systems lowered their price to match X10 Insteon would have to lower their prices also and could most likely afford to do it. Right now they can offer special sales, the sales gimmick to funnel more sales into slots when they want it for manufacturing management. If nobody would pay it the price would drop but we do, because we want it and that makes the value. If mfg. sold everything at their cost, all of them would go out of business. They have to take into account overhead, warranty replacement, r&d, etc. Maybe Insteon and other mfg. can lower the price of something. The only thing that means is less money will be put into r&d so there would be less product releases, less features added, etc. The same with UDI. They could sell the ISY cheaper. But that means they wont have as many resources to put into other areas of development. There's a pricepoint for everything. You want something cheap enough for people to afford but at the same time you have to be able to make money to put re-invest into your business. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bkmccarty Posted July 10, 2015 Share Posted July 10, 2015 I for one am not looking for cheap. I love my ISY, I love the stability, I love the simple programming, and its power. What I hate, and makes me often wonder if I selected the wrong product (sometimes). If the lack of a nice WebUI, the lack of a proper ISY channel in IFTTT (I see all kinds of channels being added). I know I can patch together something, because the ISY is just that powerful. But I struggle with the best option to select, partly because whatever I pick is going to require an investment of my time. I worry that I'll select an option and get it part way there, and then find someone else already presented a solution elsewhere. I use other products that do not have a true Android App, but allow me to save the Web page as an Icon to my phone. To me it is same thing. I have control from my phone/tablet. OpenSprinkler comes to mind. They have a web app, that runs on iOS and Android, as well as full browser. To get IFTTT or web control functional, I as a consumer would by another device from UDI, or install a UDI app on a Rpi, or sign up for some $5 (or whatever) a month service to provide the mechanisms for IFTTT integration. I don't want to move away from my investment, and the stability of the solution. But I do use a lot of web enabled services, such as IFTTT, and it pains me to see all these other products popping in there daily and the only way I can integrate things would expose my device to the public, or a patchwork of other products Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michel Kohanim Posted July 10, 2015 Share Posted July 10, 2015 Hi bkmccarty, With IFTTT, unfortunately there are two stumbling blocks: 1. You need something on the internet such as MobiLinc Connect or ISYPortal ... this means that everything is cloud based. Of course, with the Maker channel, these should be relatively easy to setup in the portal 2. We contacted IFTTT a while back and they said they would get back to us when they feel they can support more channels. We have not heard back With kind regards, Michel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pyrorobert Posted July 16, 2015 Share Posted July 16, 2015 Any updates on this, still waiting for something to happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bipto Posted July 16, 2015 Share Posted July 16, 2015 Software takes time... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DennisC Posted August 22, 2015 Share Posted August 22, 2015 Hello everyone,Thanks so very much for the feedback. I will have a chat with Wes and see what we can do.With kind regards,Michel Michel, I think we are back to asking U-D to take the lead on a Mobil app for Android users. Dennis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oberkc Posted August 22, 2015 Share Posted August 22, 2015 While I agree that mobilinc folks have their hearts in iOS, I still find mobilinc to be a capable app. While it might be falling behind in features compared to the iOS counterpart, I would not let this scare one away if the android version has the capabilities desired. Mine does what I want. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DennisC Posted August 22, 2015 Share Posted August 22, 2015 There are ISY capabilities missing from the Android version, for example Elk control. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MWareman Posted August 22, 2015 Share Posted August 22, 2015 There are ISY capabilities missing from the Android version, for example Elk control.And more fundamentally, variables! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DennisC Posted August 22, 2015 Share Posted August 22, 2015 And more fundamentally, variables! Good point! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oberkc Posted August 22, 2015 Share Posted August 22, 2015 I have come to realize that my interests are modest compared to many around here. I am not even sure what it means to for mobilinc to "support variables" and I dont use an ELK security system. My interests are to use android devices to control a few devices and scenes. I also use mobilinc, in conjunction with tasker, to automatically trigger some scenes and programs, based on location, time, and other simple conditions. I can put icons on my home screen to manually toggle some lighting scenes, fans, or garage doors. For that, I find mobilinc to be sufficient. The one thing I would like is status on my android home screen icons, but I suspect this may be limited by android. While I dont understand what it is many want to do with mobilinc, I also wonder if there are workarounds or alternatives. I also suspect that a mobile app is too important to the success prospect of a controller and agree that this is something that UDI should not leave entirely up to third parties. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paulbates Posted August 23, 2015 Share Posted August 23, 2015 I think the thing people want for the Android version is some of the eye candy features of the IOS version. There is a definitive gap between what users get on the two platforms, and IOS continues to "pull away". Michel has been on record indicating UDI are system programmers, not mobile developers. Becoming an mobile developer can be a considerable investment, if the ultimate target for many users is an "alike" to the highest level mobilinc IOS app. There have been efforts for the community to try this, Gary Funk has a thread about this. My suspicion is that if there was that big an opportunity, mobilinc would have jumped on to it. Wes put the opportunity out to this community for an Android developer to come forward, and none signed up. My guess is that it was a shared risk/reward model, and it was not clear what the reward really is for the developer, how many are buying? After watching this topic for a while, it appears all parties are keeping an arms length from the actions to move it forward. Probably what's needed next is a poll coming from the forum user body to summarize questions as to who will commit, and for what: how many ISY users will pay (again, if UDI agreed to write it) for an android app? what features will they pay for at what level? Examples/ideas basic control of insteon / zwave advanced control: Smartenit devices, etc, variables, programs, interface with tasker eye candy comparable Mobilic advanced interface features Paul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michel Kohanim Posted August 23, 2015 Share Posted August 23, 2015 Hi DennisC, We are in negotiations. I will all you posted. With kind regards, Michel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.