House Sold and they want Insteon to stay

[Ajax]

OK guys I was only able to find one post of what to do when your house sells. The whole house has insteon with network module, Amazon alexa (6), Nest (thermostat and smoke), and Mobilinc (app control) working together... the new owners wanted it all to stay. I cannot just simply reset everything bc of 3-way scenes and fan control. So what would be the most painless for me and the new owner be? It is been so long since I did the initial setup I cannot remember the steps of tying it all together anymore

Isy:

1. Change user and pass to "Admin"

2. Delete all programs/scenes that does not have anything to do with 3-ways, fan control, or water sensors notifications

3. Rename bedrooms etc. to something more generic in the Admin console.

4. Anything else?

Amazon Alexa:

1. Remove them all from my amazon account.

2. Anything else?

Isy Network Module:

1. No idea?

   - Do I change login credentials?

   - What about the Alexa link?

Nest:

1. Just remove my network or reset to default, since its not tied in to the Isy.

Mobilinc:

1. No idea?

 

Anything that should be added or I am doing wrong? What would the new homeowner steps be to get it all up and running under his name? ( I really wanted to take it all with me but they liked it a lot!)

 

Thanks!

 

[larryllix]

I would set the new owner up with an Amazon account, installing the 3 way systems that you intend to pass on so they have some basic HA and it works. 

You don't want action started against you because you sold them a dud system and the realestate agent will be the go between provoking the friction without any technical ability. If a few things work, they will work as a simple demonstration with a simple explanation that more complex things are possible but will require personalisation of the system.

Leave small fragments of each technology working in a demonstrable  manner so "you left a defective unit" can never be claimed.

[lilyoyo1]

I agree with Larryllix except for me personally, I don't leave nor show complex parts. I learned that lesson after I sold my first house with Insteon back in the houselinc days. When I sold my last house, I only showed them scene controlled items. I avoided discussing anything to do with programs and the ISY. 

While this next piece of advice doesn't help you now, one thing I learned and a practice that I still follow is to make a couple of backups when I first get started.

The first order of business is to add all the devices into the ISY and name them. Once done I create a backup of it and call it my clean slate. That way if I ever want/need to factory reset whole system I can easily start over without having to add everything back to it. 

My next backup consists of critical links such as multi way switches and switch controlled outlets. For example, I use line voltage strip lights for my ceilings in my dining room and bedroom closets. These lights are controlled by plug in dimmers (hidden and for ease of replacement). While the ISY controls all of these, it's not needed for them to work. Same with my lamps. All of my lamps use hue bulbs. However they are plugged into controlled outlets. Should I sell my place, I can replace the bulbs with standard bulbs (or leave them) and it'll be a regular light controlled by my keypad. 

Simply running the backup that has the critical links stored allows me to quickly convert my home into a "smarthome ready" place without having to worry about programming issues etc.

 

[apostolakisl]

Best practice is to pull the HA before you put it on the market if it is your plan to take it with you, or at least not to be burdened by the transition to a new owner of all the fine details.  But, at this point, the question is what does the new owner expect to stay?  If it is screwed, nailed, or otherwise affixed to the house when you sell it, it is supposed to stay.  So that pretty much includes any Insteon switch and thermostats.  But the ISY, Alexas, and other free-standing items would not be expected to stay unless you advertised it as such.  In other words, if you advertised the house as having features that these devices are providing, then you need to leave them.  Otherwise, I would take them out.  Not only because they are yours, but because they present a security issue for you and the new owner.  No different then leaving your computers, routers, and the like.  It might be that you leave passwords or registrations on these devices that give away your passwords or access to you accounts.  You could factory reset it all, but then that leaves the new owner with a mess.  Insteon works on its own, you can just pull the ISY and Alexa's and leave the Insteon stuff with all of its built in links.  Frankly, I'm kind of shocked the new owners want it.  Most people are scared that something is going to happen and they'll have no idea how to fix it.  And they would be right!

[paulbates]

One thing you can do is have a "house" email account for as much technology as possible. My Venstars, alarm system, rainmachine, IFTTT and pushover all use the same gmail account that is used strictly for administration. I need to change my ISY Portal account to the same one. The account password can be changed in the presence of the new owner and the administrative handover is done. If things like mobilinc and Nest are authenticated with an email account, that could be done as well.

Alexa would be the only thing that this approach won't work for.

Paul

[apostolakisl]

44 minutes ago, paulbates said:

One thing you can do is have a "house" email account for as much technology as possible. My Venstars, alarm system, rainmachine, IFTTT and pushover all use the same gmail account that is used strictly for administration. I need to change my ISY Portal account to the same one. The account password can be changed in the presence of the new owner and the administrative handover is done. If things like mobilinc and Nest are authenticated with an email account, that could be done as well.

Alexa would be the only thing that this approach won't work for.

Paul

You also have to take into account anything you did with network resources.  I have network resources with authentication to other things.  And I have stuff with IFTTT which would be hard to separate my personal things from house things.  Your approach in general is good, but if you didn't do it from the start, that still leaves you going back and re-doing all those things and possibly missing some things.

[paulbates]

56 minutes ago, apostolakisl said:

You also have to take into account anything you did with network resources.  I have network resources with authentication to other things.  And I have stuff with IFTTT which would be hard to separate my personal things from house things.  Your approach in general is good, but if you didn't do it from the start, that still leaves you going back and re-doing all those things and possibly missing some things.

Yes fair enough. I listed IFTTT because i did set up geofencing on it, but now thinking about it I have since migrated off of it for ISY Portal and don't have any active IFTTT any longer. Using it would take choosing where functions should be implemented

For network resources, I've drawn the line on only getting iot devices that support a local API, so I'll not have issues there. I plan to turn the router over with ISy and IoT as the local IP addresses matter, but no cloud dependencies.

 

Paul

[Ajax]

Yeah I was surprised that they wanted it to stay as well. But gives me a chance to redo the next house with new stuff!

[johnjces]

Somewhere I read that one can delete the PLM once all switches and other stuff are linked and of course no programs controlling that stuff.

Is this true?

[larryllix]

Insteon scenes were designed before ISY existed.

[apostolakisl]

On 10/3/2018 at 7:07 PM, johnjces said:

Somewhere I read that one can delete the PLM once all switches and other stuff are linked and of course no programs controlling that stuff.

Is this true?

PLM is a member of a scene.  The PLM is a modem (the "M"), so its inclusion in the scene is not for the purpose of itself (the PLM isn't going to directly do anything), but rather it is a modem for whatever is attached to it (The ISY).  As a member of a scene, its host (the ISY) can thus control or respond to any of the other devices it is linked to.  Like any device in a scene, if you remove it, the other devices will still still control or respond to the remaining devices in the scene.  

Not sure why you would want to remove it, though.  Maybe if you had a "traveling ISY" that you used to set up networks and then wanted to move on with the ISY to the next job.  If you were going to just be using an ISY to set up networks and move on, you would probably not want the other devices to keep it in their link tables.  I could be wrong on this, but a missing device in an Insteon network makes the other devices do more retries since their will never be an ACK.  It is my understanding, that performing a "delete PLM" does just that, goes through device by device and deletes the PLM from their links table.

[paulbates]

On 10/3/2018 at 8:07 PM, johnjces said:

Somewhere I read that one can delete the PLM once all switches and other stuff are linked and of course no programs controlling that stuff.

Is this true?

If you literally  use the "Delete Modem" feature, it removes all of the links that the ISY programmed between devices. You don't want to do this.

However, the ISY and PLM is the fastest way I know how to set up links between devices and not have to use the labor intensive manual "linking mode" between insteon devices. You are right that insteon devices link device to device, no PLM or controller are needed after set up. The ISY and PLM cand fail after initial link (scene) programming, and your light switches would still work. However, using "delete modem" should never be used unless UDI support suggests it.

Paul

[apostolakisl]

5 hours ago, paulbates said:

If you literally  use the "Delete Modem" feature, it removes all of the links that the ISY programmed between devices. You don't want to do this.

 

I do not believe this is correct.  As I understand, delete modem only deletes the PLM <--> Device links, not Device <---> Device links, regardless of how they got there.  I have never done a delete modem, but I believe the purpose of it is to remove your PLM/ISY from the network but otherwise leave the Insteon network as is.  Perhaps if one was using the ISY to setup homes but was not going to leave the ISY behind.

[Ajax]

Well there seem to be a consensus that there are better ways to do this for the next round. But for now what are your thoughts or steps I should take in my original post? If you guys don't mind by quoting my post and answering each question would be appreciated. All I know is that I am going to miss the days of just telling "Echo" goodnight and she shuts of all the lights, lock the doors etc! 

[lilyoyo1]

23 hours ago, Ajax said:

Well there seem to be a consensus that there are better ways to do this for the next round. But for now what are your thoughts or steps I should take in my original post? If you guys don't mind by quoting my post and answering each question would be appreciated. All I know is that I am going to miss the days of just telling "Echo" goodnight and she shuts of all the lights, lock the doors etc! 

You answered your own questions in your initial post. All that you stated is what you should do. The network module is part of your Isy unless you purchased it as part of a portal subscription.  

You could talk to the buyer and go over the ISY with them. Delete the scenes & programs that they don't want and leave the ones they do. This will save you and them unnecessary work with the ISY.

I would save a backup file of that final configuration to a USB stick once completed for their benefit. That way they have a fix should they mess something up when they mess with it.

If you're leaving your Echos behind (personally I wouldn't), then yes, remove them from your account. If it were me, I'd help them set up the Echos and Isy together so they could control whatever functions you've left behind for them. 

[larryllix]

1 hour ago, lilyoyo1 said:

You answered your own questions in your initial post. All that you stated is what you should do. The network module is part of your Isy unless you purchased it as part of a portal subscription.  

You could talk to the buyer and go over the ISY with them. Delete the scenes & programs that they don't want and leave the ones they do. This will save you and them unnecessary work with the ISY.

I would save a backup file of that final configuration to a USB stick once completed for their benefit. That way they have a fix should they mess something up when they mess with it.

If you're leaving your Echos behind (personally I wouldn't), then yes, remove them from your account. If it were me, I'd help them set up the Echos and Isy together so they could control whatever functions you've left behind for them. 

Yes. You would be dumping the new owners into a technology way over their heads. Sure they a fascinated by it and they want it but look how long it takes others to get to that point. It is asking for a world of hurt. The new owner should start into the advanced level that you leave them but I would eliminate every fancy feature you can for them to start with. If the new owner ever comes up to speed, he/she can buy their own fancy peripherals and you will be free of training and retraining that is about to happen.

Cripes! I left a security system in my last home I sold and with all the default setups and passwords restored back to the manuals I left for the new homeowners, and written instructions what to do,  I still heard threats of suing for a system they could make use of. It finally went away after I informed the real-estate agent  where the info was, again. People just want things to work magically and they may step on anybody they can blame for their own incompetence.

[carealtor]

9 hours ago, larryllix said:

Yes. You would be dumping the new owners into a technology way over their heads. Sure they a fascinated by it and they want it but look how long it takes others to get to that point. It is asking for a world of hurt. The new owner should start into the advanced level that you leave them but I would eliminate every fancy feature you can for them to start with. If the new owner ever comes up to speed, he/she can buy their own fancy peripherals and you will be free of training and retraining that is about to happen.

Cripes! I left a security system in my last home I sold and with all the default setups and passwords restored back to the manuals I left for the new homeowners, and written instructions what to do,  I still heard threats of suing for a system they could make use of. It finally went away after I informed the real-estate agent  where the info was, again. People just want things to work magically and they may step on anybody they can blame for their own incompetence.

As a Realtor and an ISY enthusiast, I would agree that this is right on the mark.  I would never, EVER, agree to leave behind my home brewed home automation.  

[Scottmichaelj]

Could always tell the new owners its an “advanced” or “installer only” system and they sign off on all responsibility and acknowledge this. Then you could tell then if they wish to keep it they can hire you at $100+ an hour (in half hour increments) to help and maintain it. Only if that’s convenient for you though. Then you could remote login and make changes by tossing a cheap headless PC stick in there. Otherwise they sign off on everything. Not everyone is dumb and some people can learn. I live in Seattle and theres plenty of tech savvy people in this area. Some don’t want to be bothers but other will take the time to learn. At the end of the day I just would make sure everything is 100% clear and in writing.

[steveng57]

I had sold a home a few years back with a lot of HA in it, and it could not easily be pulled out.  But my realtor put a clause in the contract saying "all HA is sold as is, with absolutely no warranty or support of any kind."  At least that way you are legally protected.   

[larryllix]

4 hours ago, steveng57 said:

I had sold a home a few years back with a lot of HA in it, and it could not easily be pulled out.  But my realtor put a clause in the contract saying "all HA is sold as is, with absolutely no warranty or support of any kind."  At least that way you are legally protected.   

65 Sussex Drive?